TEXAS...could it make it on its own?

[5GallonBucket]

PER MSN.COM

If Texas were its own country, it would have the 12th-highest GDP in the World.

Texas' gross domestic product is $1.65 trillion. It has a larger GDP than Australia and Korea (both about $1.4 trillion) but falls short of Canada ($1.7 trillion.)

Notably, over the past 20 years, Texas has become an increasingly important part of the US economy. In 1995, it made up 6.5% of the total US GDP; by 2014 it was over 9%

Texas has

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barrels of crude-oil reserves, or 439.740 billion gallons. This is 31.4% of the US's reserves.

 

[77]

Guess it would depend on who was in the White house and if they would allow trade with Texas.

[5GallonBucket]

I believe they need us more than we need them.

Given the way things are going is the reason I post something like this.  I also believe we could handle the south border better than the feds.  Federal Govt do not represent the citizens anymore and haven't for quite sometime.

 

 

[RaiderRed30]

No.

[PAMFAM10]

No

[Englebert]

Yes, Texas could make it own it's own, without a doubt. In fact, we would be much better off than we are now, as long as we don't elect the same type of politicians that currently comprise the federal government. There is nothing wrong with the U.S. Constitution. The breakdown is based solely on the people implementing it. If the Nation of Texas elects politicians that stick to the constitution, we will prosper. If not, we will fail.

[Englebert]

We would definitely have to come up with a better name than the "Nation Of Texas" because the acronym for that is "NOT".

[PN-G bamatex]

In theory, Texas could make it on its own. In fact, I would grade it as a high probability of success for Texas as its own country if we meet two conditions. The first is good leadership (I think we have a mix of good and bad at the moment). The second is how we would structure our national government, which is dependent on the first. As it stands right now, I would rate our current bureaucratic structure as very well set up for national governance. I would not, however, say that our judicial structure is, and our executive branch could use some retooling at the top as well.

[baddog]

I would worry about people on fixed incomes, highway monies, and school monies.

We can grow anything and our oil supplies are world ranked.

[Ty Cobb]

What about a military?  I know we have military bases in Texas, but those bases and the people on them belong to the United States military.  I also realize that everyone in Texas owns a gun.  Would Texas have a strong enough military to survive?

[RaiderRed30]

1 hour ago, baddog said:

I would worry about people on fixed incomes, highway monies, and school monies.

We can grow anything and our oil supplies are world ranked.

Exactly why I said no. Our state does not want to tax people, because the people do not want to be taxed, but how do you pay for public utilities without raising taxes. We receive a lot of federal money for schools, highways, waterways, and even retirement. The terrible condition of the highways around the state now would only get worse. If Texas was to be its own nation we would be too dependent on oil, but with Iran coming back oil prices will drop even more. West Texas has been slowing down. Also if we were to become independent how would it retirement plans work for people who's job is not based in Texas. Then we would have to create an EU type situation with the US for free movement to other states. University prices would rocket up for students who want to go to a Harvard or a Yale. It may seem like a good idea, but there are more questions than answers. It would be similar to Scotland and the UK a few years ago. That was a great idea, until people realized what would we do for money and everything else. When the election results came in the idea was soundly defeated. The idea might seem good, but we were a country before and our leaders found a way to collect 10 million in debt during a time period when countries did not have debt. Texas will always be an outlaw state, but the majority would never vote to leave the US. The best we can hope for is to become more autonomous like what you see in Spain with Catalonia and the Basque Country.

[Englebert]

Public utilities are already being paid by the public. We don't need the US Government for that.

The federal money for schools, highways and waterways would be stopped. But so would every Texas citizen's tax payments to the federal government. That money would go to the Texas government which could be used for these purposes. I'm sure the cost for schools will drop dramatically when the Texas government says that no government money shall go towards illegal immigrants.

Social Security will be an issue because that money has already been paid to the federal government, who squandered it.

I'm fairly certain that every Texan knows we will still pay taxes. Instead of our tax money going to the bloated fraud-ridden federal government, it will now be going to the Texas government. And it will be our duty as a Texas National to make sure that our new Texas National government does not follow the same path as our current federal government.

[PN-G bamatex]

To answer the questions about federal benefits, regulations and programs like Social Security, Medicaid and the military....

Occasionally, you see studies passed around regarding the "return on investment" for individual states, or, in other words the total amount of federal money spent in each individual state for every dollar of federal tax revenue collected from that state. You can find the ROI metric for each state from 2015 here:

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According to this, the federal government spent 79 cents in Texas for every dollar of tax revenue collected from Texas last year. That means that 21% of federal tax revenues coming from Texas is spent in one of the other 49 states, the District of Columbia or abroad. Texas is, by a wide margin, a tax donor state.

Now, is it true that Texas is an overwhelmingly tax-averse state? Absolutely. It's highly probable that Texas would be forced to institute an income tax to sustain a national government, which is itself the most unpopular, economically burdensome form of taxation and a particularly abhorrent idea in this state, as well as replace other federal taxes such as the payroll tax. Would the people of Texas like that idea? Ostensibly, absolutely not.

That said, if Texas were to become its own country, in theory, Texas could implement its own replacements for federal taxes at 79% of the rates the federal government normally charges Texas citizens, and raise every penny of federal funding it would lose as a result of secession. And that's just if Texas wants to replace every penny of federal funding. It's no secret that state government in Texas is incredibly efficient; for the last 40 years, elected and appointed officials in this state have displayed incredible skill in finding ways to save money. In theory, it's possible, and perhaps even likely, that a national Texas government would find a way to provide every single one of the services the federal government currently provides to our citizens at reduced cost, which would allow the state to levy even lower replacement tax rates.

Therefore, the question on taxes isn't so much whether Texans would be willing to bite the bullet and accept new Texas taxes as a condition of independence. It's really whether Texans are willing to accept a reduction in their taxes of at least 21%, possibly more, in addition to national sovereignty. Offer any Texan that deal, and I'd bet good money they'd take it.

Where the military's concerned, the other metrics listed in the same table at the link I've provided suggest that a significant portion of that 79 cents goes to military personnel, bases and contracts in Texas - a larger portion than in most other states. That shouldn't surprise anyone. Texas is home to Fort Hood, the largest military installation on Earth, as well as Fort Bliss, all of the military bases in San Antonio, a handful of Coast Guard and Naval installations on the coast, and numerous major defense contractors, among other important military resources. Approximately one out of every nine US military servicemen and women is from Texas, and an independent Texas would, undoubtedly, make a strong military a national priority.

While the United States (I'm assuming, for the sake of argument, that a United States would continue to exist comprised of the other 49 states in this hypothetical scenario) would undoubtedly remove whatever military resources it could take with it from an independent Texas, the physical installations themselves can't be picked up and moved, and the new Texas government would likely seize those properties for itself. I doubt many of those defense contractors would be willing to pick up and leave a new nation anxious to get started building a premier military, either, particularly if Texas is more open to exporting military equipment and technology than the United States has traditionally been. Add in that big chunk of change from the reduced replacement taxes and a dose of old fashioned, Texas arms-stockpiling philosophy, and you've got a recipe for one of the largest, most effective, most advanced military forces on the planet right here in the Lone Star State Republic.

[Hagar]

Great post PN-G!  You answered many of the things I've wondered about IF Texas seceded.  

Just this old mans opinion but I think we should, and soon.  And if it does happen, we'd have about 10 years to build fences to secure our borders from Mex, La, Ark, Okl, and NM, because they'd be scrambling to get in. 

[RaiderRed30]

That possibly answers one problem, but what about military defense. We would have to spend in the billions to trillions for new jets, tanks, and everything other than the bases themselves, because the US would remove everything. Then what do we do for currency. We would have to create a new currency that would not be as strong. Trade agreements with other countries or prices for the even rice that is grown in Louisiana would skyrocket. Passports would have to be created. Businesses that are here in Texas may move back their headquarters to the US because of independence. School Educatio would be destroyed. There are more questions than answers and if it ever went to a referendum it would more than likely be voted no by around a 70-30 margin.

[RETIREDFAN1]

17 hours ago, Ty Cobb said:

What about a military?  I know we have military bases in Texas, but those bases and the people on them belong to the United States military.  I also realize that everyone in Texas owns a gun.  Would Texas have a strong enough military to survive?

Look at how many in the U. S. military are from Texas....we'd have a great military with all them returning home......

[RETIREDFAN1]

17 hours ago, RaiderRed30 said:

 how do you pay for public utilities without raising taxes. 

You privatize them and let the free market reign, which is one of the principles this nation was founded on in the first place.......

[RETIREDFAN1]

56 minutes ago, RaiderRed30 said:

That possibly answers one problem, but what about military defense. We would have to spend in the billions to trillions for new jets, tanks, and everything other than the bases themselves, because the US would remove everything. 

so in this hypothetical, we are just going to sit back and ALLOW them to take assets which are already here??? Without a fight??? Remember how many in the military are from Texas......

[5GallonBucket]

I am thinking of the future generations.  Not myself and what I will get from a decision like this.  If it did happen it would definitely be more downs than ups the first 10 to 15 years. 

Question.  Would you rather go down the path this Fed Govt is going or try to impact a real character change that will be difficult but worth it for the future generations.

[tvc184]

2 hours ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

so in this hypothetical, we are just going to sit back and ALLOW them to take assets which are already here??? Without a fight??? Remember how many in the military are from Texas......

You are bordering on the ludicrous..... unless you are being facetious.  

[Bigdog]

20 hours ago, Ty Cobb said:

What about a military?  I know we have military bases in Texas, but those bases and the people on them belong to the United States military.  I also realize that everyone in Texas owns a gun.  Would Texas have a strong enough military to survive?

I think that the U.S wouldn't necessarily withdraw all of the military resources.  There would probably be a security agreement similar to what they have with other countries,  because it would still be needed to protect the new U.S borders and would be very expensive to close down all of those bases.   The U.S currently has bases all over the world in other countries such as Korea, Japan, Australia, Germany.

[AggiesAreWe]

3 hours ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

so in this hypothetical, we are just going to sit back and ALLOW them to take assets which are already here??? Without a fight??? Remember how many in the military are from Texas......

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[RETIREDFAN1]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

You are bordering on the ludicrous..... unless you are being facetious.  

Perhaps you don't understand the term "hypothetical"......:P

[Hagar]

3 hours ago, 5GallonBucket said:

I am thinking of the future generations.  Not myself and what I will get from a decision like this.  If it did happen it would definitely be more downs than ups the first 10 to 15 years. 

Question.  Would you rather go down the path this Fed Govt is going or try to impact a real character change that will be difficult but worth it for the future generations.

Just what I was thinking 5GB.  I often get to rambling and on this subject I could easily.  You said what I started to say, as well as it could be said.  Great post IMO.  

[bullets13]

It would be more headaches and hassles than it's worth, and contrary to the arguments made on here on military, that would be a huge pain in the butt to get started, and would cost many billions of dollars to do so.  We'd also be greatly outgunned and outmanned by the USA, and would be under their thumb.  While we could certainly be self-sufficient, it would be counterproductive at best.