Settling the "greatest SE Texas coach" debate

[HSbballFan]

Just now, Dick Vitale said:

As I have said many times, MOST people on this board are not qualified to critique the area coaches, but you are entitled to your opinion.  However, coming from a guy that is from a great coaching tree, myself, I can say that he knows what he is doing. He may not do things exactly like Todd at times, but he is his own man, so that should be expected. Dare I ask, but, what are your expectations of him? He is doing a great job in succeeding Sutherland over there...I don't know what else you can possibly expect from the guy, but hey, it is your opinion.

Sadly its just a personal opinion of him more than his coaching ability. I know hes a heck of a coach. But this was a guy I watched fist pump like tiger woods sinking a birdie putt on 18 at the masters when his team took a lead in a game and then in the tournament criticize a player for being emotional. That HJ tournament was a shame from the student body to the adults acting out. As well as some of the coaches who attended. 

I have no doubt he is a heck of a coach and I'm sure when the dust settles maybe I will feel differently. Either way I know how difficult it is to be playing in Feb and March & I'll be pulling for him and his team as well as any of the other local teams.

[Drango1]

You may think about critiquing the way you act in the stands before you critique a coach. 

[Drango1]

Now i wonder if they will delete this topic for your public criticism of Coach Davis like they did when they talked about "the player" after the HJ tourney. I doubt it. 

[TxHoops]

I don't think anyone was criticizing anyone for being "emotional."   But we don't need to rehash that issue.  If a big criticism of a coach is he pumps his fist when his team takes a lead, I will take him.  

[Baller 93]

Ozen Finest needs to get his list posted! Don't be afraid to post .....

[HSbballFan]

3 hours ago, Drango1 said:

Now i wonder if they will delete this topic for your public criticism of Coach Davis like they did when they talked about "the player" after the HJ tourney. I doubt it. 

He is a heck of a coach I was never criticizing his coaching ability. Put that tournament was poorly ran and Sutherland would of never allowed the tournament to be ran that way. 

It's not these players job to teach adults how to act, It's supposed to be the other way around. And the way the HJ tournament was run this past year was a failure. 

 

 And Sutherland sets the finest example of how to act when it comes to his players. I will always respect that man for the athletes he has coached and the men many of the grew in to. 

[hjhawks]

Boys current (no particular order)

 

davis-hj

joubert-kountze 

Sutherland- ec

foster- big sandy

english- nederland

knowles- Kelly

 

all time- no particular order

sutherland, boutte, Fred Williams, cotton Robinson, and James gamble

 

 

 

[Drango1]

4 hours ago, HSbballFan said:

He is a heck of a coach I was never criticizing his coaching ability. Put that tournament was poorly ran and Sutherland would of never allowed the tournament to be ran that way. 

It's not these players job to teach adults how to act, It's supposed to be the other way around. And the way the HJ tournament was run this past year was a failure. 

 

 And Sutherland sets the finest example of how to act when it comes to his players. I will always respect that man for the athletes he has coached and the men many of the grew in to. 

Poorly ran!!! Lol.  The part you don't know is coach Davis has run that tournament since its inception. You should worry about the example you set by the way you act. Once you have that right then worry about others. 

[5GallonBucket]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 3:14 PM, ozensfinest said:

DV so you're giving English the "great coach" card based on him turning two programs around from bad to mediocre? Seriously? Smh has he accomplished anything else as a head coach other than what I just mentioned above? If his qualifications meet the great coach standard than you have to give Saveat the great coach card then too right? 

That right there proves you know nothing about coaching.  

[stevenash]

15 hours ago, HSbballFan said:

Sadly its just a personal opinion of him more than his coaching ability. I know hes a heck of a coach. But this was a guy I watched fist pump like tiger woods sinking a birdie putt on 18 at the masters when his team took a lead in a game and then in the tournament criticize a player for being emotional. That HJ tournament was a shame from the student body to the adults acting out. As well as some of the coaches who attended. 

I have no doubt he is a heck of a coach and I'm sure when the dust settles maybe I will feel differently. Either way I know how difficult it is to be playing in Feb and March & I'll be pulling for him and his team as well as any of the other local teams.

Hmmm- Interesting-  the student body, many of the adults "acting out" and a number of the coaches who attended were all wrong?  I wonder what made them feel/act the way that they did?

[Drango1]

17 hours ago, HSbballFan said:

Sadly its just a personal opinion of him more than his coaching ability. I know hes a heck of a coach. But this was a guy I watched fist pump like tiger woods sinking a birdie putt on 18 at the masters when his team took a lead in a game and then in the tournament criticize a player for being emotional. That HJ tournament was a shame from the student body to the adults acting out. As well as some of the coaches who attended. 

I have no doubt he is a heck of a coach and I'm sure when the dust settles maybe I will feel differently. Either way I know how difficult it is to be playing in Feb and March & I'll be pulling for him and his team as well as any of the other local teams.

I would also be intersted to see where Coach Davis criticized the other kid. I doubt you can find any proof of that. 

[HSbballFan]

12 hours ago, Drango1 said:

Poorly ran!!! Lol.  The part you don't know is coach Davis has run that tournament since its inception. You should worry about the example you set by the way you act. Once you have that right then worry about others. 

Again I sat in the stands like I do at every other highschool game I've ever attended in my life and had no issues. Nor did I personally have an issue with anyone at the tournament. So I didn't act out. And the confirmation I need is several of the coaches saying they have no plans on attending the tournament next year. Funnily enough the EC tournament was mentioned as the replacement. 

[stevenash]

26 minutes ago, HSbballFan said:

Again I sat in the stands like I do at every other highschool game I've ever attended in my life and had no issues. Nor did I personally have an issue with anyone at the tournament. So I didn't act out. And the confirmation I need is several of the coaches saying they have no plans on attending the tournament next year. Funnily enough the EC tournament was mentioned as the replacement. 

What made the coaches confide in you, just another fan?  What reasons did they give to you and why did they want to inform you of their intentions regarding next year?  Did any of your "relatives" act out?

[HSbballFan]

I have a prior relationship with a few coaches and again i think Davis is a good coach and this is getting blown out of proportion.  I didn't like the way the HJ tournament was ran. I didn't like the way he acted and I don't plan on attending it next year. Feel free to do whatever you want. But when a coach in your tournament makes statements from the stands towards a kid and has a physical altercation with a fan I would probably have asked that coach to leave the tournament. I've seen it before. When every other team had 2 kids make all tournament except for 1 which clearly had one of the best players in the tournament skipped over I don't care for that. 

 

I'm done responding in this thread about this feel free to PM me. To get back on topic 

Sutherland GOAT

And recently just because I've been able to watch them play the Gentleman coaching Big Sandy left a strong impression on me. 

 

 

[ST413]

I am not going to even approach naming coaches as the best, I think most of the ones I see do a pretty good job, some naturally better than others.  To me a good high school coach is more than just X's and O's , how he leads them off the court plays a large part.

However as far as on the court ability, what shows more about a Coach, how he performs in a program with a winning tradition or how he performs in a program without the hat tradition?

[TxHoops]

24 minutes ago, HSbballFan said:

I have a prior relationship with a few coaches and again i think Davis is a good coach and this is getting blown out of proportion.  I didn't like the way the HJ tournament was ran. I didn't like the way he acted and I don't plan on attending it next year. Feel free to do whatever you want. But when a coach in your tournament makes statements from the stands towards a kid and has a physical altercation with a fan I would probably have asked that coach to leave the tournament. I've seen it before. When every other team had 2 kids make all tournament except for 1 which clearly had one of the best players in the tournament skipped over I don't care for that. 

 

I'm done responding in this thread about this feel free to PM me. To get back on topic 

Sutherland GOAT

And recently just because I've been able to watch them play the Gentleman coaching Big Sandy left a strong impression on me. 

 

 

I wasn't at the tournament but heard a lot of second hand accounts.  From both sides.  I am sure everyone wishes several people had handled things differently but it is water under the bridge.  The kid who was criticized is a very good player and a very good kid (according to more than one person I know well and trust).  Likewise, Clay Davis is a fine coach and an even better person IMO.  And that comes from personal knowledge.  I know your personal choice for best coach would share that sentiment. 

Speaking of which, hard to argue with your choice of Sutherland and your observations of Coach Foster.  Both great coaches and teachers of the kids, and both of whom are molders of men by leading by example...

[HSbballFan]

5 minutes ago, TxHoops said:

I wasn't at the tournament but heard a lot of second hand accounts.  From both sides.  I am sure everyone wishes several people had handled things differently but it is water under the bridge.  The kid who was criticized is a very good player and a very good kid (according to more than one person I know well and trust).  Likewise, Clay Davis is a fine coach and an even better person IMO.  And that comes from personal knowledge.  I know your personal choice for best coach would share that sentiment. 

Speaking of which, hard to argue with your choice of Sutherland and your observations of Coach Foster.  Both great coaches and teachers of the kids, and both of whom are molders of men by leading by example...

I hope to catch more of Coach Foster. And I like your outlook on things.  We have a house up in near San Agustine I wonder if they play big sandy I'd like to catch that game I know they are both good teams. 

 

I'd like to watch another Big Sandy game this year. A few others out there i still need to catch before playoffs. 

[TxHoops]

6 minutes ago, HSbballFan said:

I hope to catch more of Coach Foster. And I like your outlook on things.  We have a house up in near San Agustine I wonder if they play big sandy I'd like to catch that game I know they are both good teams. 

 

I'd like to watch another Big Sandy game this year. A few others out there i still need to catch before playoffs. 

They don't have a game scheduled but it is very possible they could meet in the playoffs.  I would also love to see the two play and would probably make the drive to do so if they do meet.  

[Drango1]

1 hour ago, HSbballFan said:

I have a prior relationship with a few coaches and again i think Davis is a good coach and this is getting blown out of proportion.  I didn't like the way the HJ tournament was ran. I didn't like the way he acted and I don't plan on attending it next year. Feel free to do whatever you want. But when a coach in your tournament makes statements from the stands towards a kid and has a physical altercation with a fan I would probably have asked that coach to leave the tournament. I've seen it before. When every other team had 2 kids make all tournament except for 1 which clearly had one of the best players in the tournament skipped over I don't care for that. 

 

I'm done responding in this thread about this feel free to PM me. To get back on topic 

Sutherland GOAT

And recently just because I've been able to watch them play the Gentleman coaching Big Sandy left a strong impression on me. 

 

 

 If you didn't like the way coach Davis acted and you didn't mind the way the kid from Nederland acted than you are either blinde or dumb. Not to mention english had to discipline the kid for cussing at the opposing team after the game was over. 

 

Watch this thread disappear now

 

P.S. We finally agree in something. Sutherland is indeed GOAT!

[swamp123]

Hopefully these coaches dropping out have enough integrity to go ahead and notify Coach Davis of their intent so they can have their butts replaced.  Maybe you could do that as their spokesperson. Great tourney, only got better this year.  

Any HS coach that can tolerate the sort of bs they have to put up with from message boards, parents and "fans" these days for more than 5 years is GREAT in my book.

[Drango1]

ZERO teams have backed out in fact all have indicated they will be back with a waiting list half a dozen teams deep. Also would be pretty interesting that EC would be the replacement considering they are on different weekends and Big Sandy plays in both. You have no credibility hsbballfan. None!

[stevenash]

1 hour ago, HSbballFan said:

I have a prior relationship with a few coaches and again i think Davis is a good coach and this is getting blown out of proportion.  I didn't like the way the HJ tournament was ran. I didn't like the way he acted and I don't plan on attending it next year. Feel free to do whatever you want. But when a coach in your tournament makes statements from the stands towards a kid and has a physical altercation with a fan I would probably have asked that coach to leave the tournament. I've seen it before. When every other team had 2 kids make all tournament except for 1 which clearly had one of the best players in the tournament skipped over I don't care for that. 

 

I'm done responding in this thread about this feel free to PM me. To get back on topic 

Sutherland GOAT

And recently just because I've been able to watch them play the Gentleman coaching Big Sandy left a strong impression on me. 

 

 

Finally the real issue ( emboldened) rears its head.  There were 48 games played in that tournament and I am going to take a wild guess that you did not see more than 6 or 8 of them in their entirety.  The all tourney team was selected by the coaches( who are considerably better qualified to evaluate players than one person in the stands) who saw quite a few more than 6 or 8 games.  If Sutherland had been there, it would have had ZERO impact on the all tourney selection.

[whsalum]

Quote

 

As someone who has attended more than my share of basketball tournaments over the past 50 years or so I have to say the HJ Marathon is second to none when it comes to not only the field it attracts buts also the coaches. Just this year you had local coaches from Big Sandy, Nederland, Kountze, Lufkin Hudson and HJ. Throw in teams from out of town that included Aransas Pass, Tatum and Brock and you have a more than impressive tournament. There may be some teams that don't enter this tourney next year but it will probably be more from a drop off of graduating talent than the way the event was ran. I have taken off work for years and visited this tournament and it has always been ran exceptionally well and will continue as such in the future.

[Tater salad]

On January 30, 2016 at 11:47 AM, ccsbasketballplayer said:

Cotton Robinson  

King Cotton!

[stevenash]

1 hour ago, whsalum said:

As someone who has attended more than my share of basketball tournaments over the past 50 years or so I have to say the HJ Marathon is second to none when it comes to not only the field it attracts buts also the coaches. Just this year you had local coaches from Big Sandy, Nederland, Kountze, Lufkin Hudson and HJ. Throw in teams from out of town that included Aransas Pass, Tatum and Brock and you have a more than impressive tournament. There may be some teams that don't enter this tourney next year but it will probably be more from a drop off of graduating talent than the way the event was ran. I have taken off work for years and visited this tournament and it has always been ran exceptionally well and will continue as such in the future.

And the individual who actually runs the tournament has been doing it for the last ten years