Houston and Setx falling way behind

[CardinalBacker]

11 minutes ago, Cougar14.2 said:

"SOME" kids "ONLY" way, which is totally correct. You stretched it to an all-inclusive statement to cover "non-athletic" kids which plays more towards the soapbox rhetoric you're trying to get across. If they're "non-athletic" then they're not in the conversation and what you said is a moot/duh point. What about the kid like my son who's already 6'/180lbs and is the fastest kid in Crosby's freshman class though? He's from a middle class family and I'm telling you from the horse's mouth that the "ONLY" way he's making it "out" of Crosby is on the gridiron. He knows he's going to make $100k+ rather he steps foot on a college campus or not as long as he doesn't get into any trouble. It's not like that for all kids but for "SOME" it is. About 40% of middle class kids who start college don't finish anyway, however, about 80% of athletes that receive division one scholarships do. So looking at it that way your kid has a better shot at making it "out" if he has a jump-shot or a fast 40.

How many more stats/facts would you like me to gather before I challenge you? I can specifically get the "inner-city" type data OzensFinest spoke about and post it but you would look dumb for even questioning it.     

 

It doesn't take a genius to figure out it's bad business to spend 20 million or so dollars on facilites so that a dozen athletic kids get a scholarship.

Want to go to college for free?  Check out the GI Bill.  The Army could always use some athletes.

No way out my you-know-what.  

 

 

 

 

 

[cowboysfan88]

Some ppl really need to grow  up do y'all see what y'all are arguing about you can make it out of the inner city without athletics but you can't make it out with academics that's a fact 

[Cougar14.2]

I think the SETX area is falling behind, but I think it's due more to the contraction/stagnation of the entire area in general. It's behind in enrollment, compensation, imagination, facilities and infrastructure as a whole. You can go to south and west Texas and find the exact same issues though. Other than the HISD schools I think the Houston area gets it as far as what it takes to compete. New Caney just built Texan Drive, Katy is building another monster, BH just built a college level indoor facility, Cy-Fair dropped about 60 mil on the Berry Center and even a place like Crosby there was a bond just passed that allocated multi-millions for athletic facilities/improvements. I think that was even after Crosby already spent about a million replacing the old turf with a new rug.

Our problem down here is that we're heavy on single high school ISD's. When you have 30k+ students like Mansfield ISD or 50k+ students like Plano ISD then you have a huge tax base to fund a single stadium and more money for individual facilities on campus. Even an inner-city school like Galena Park, which is in the district with North Shore, has a nice facility behind their school where the players can walk straight out of the field house to a field turf practice field. That's because they have over 22k students in the district and a relatively low income, but huge tax base and therefore have nice facilities for a two high school district. At times the mentality in SETX is that "we did it this way in '76, so we can do it again the same way".

Until the thinking down here becomes more progressive like that of the Dallas, Austin and Houston area suburbs SETX will be bringing up the rear. With all that being said though, I think WOS and North Shore showed you there's no replacement for a community producing great athletes.    

[WOSgrad]

52 minutes ago, Cougar14.2 said:

"SOME" kids "ONLY" way, which is totally correct. You stretched it to an all-inclusive statement to cover "non-athletic" kids which plays more towards the soapbox rhetoric you're trying to get across. If they're "non-athletic" then they're not in the conversation and what you said is a moot/duh point. What about the kid like my son who's already 6'/180lbs and is the fastest kid in Crosby's freshman class though? He's from a middle class family and I'm telling you from the horse's mouth that the "ONLY" way he's making it "out" of Crosby is on the gridiron. He knows he's going to make $100k+ rather he steps foot on a college campus or not as long as he doesn't get into any trouble. It's not like that for all kids but for "SOME" it is. About 40% of middle class kids who start college don't finish anyway, however, about 80% of athletes that receive division one scholarships do. So looking at it that way your kid has a better shot at making it "out" if he has a jump-shot or a fast 40.

How many more stats/facts would you like me to gather before I challenge you? I can specifically get the "inner-city" type data OzensFinest spoke about and post it but you would look dumb for even questioning it.     

 

I don't think anyone is advocating the defunding of anyone's athletic program.  I think what those who have urged caution is not for OVERSPENDING just to keep up with the Jones.  Your kid and for that matter, ozensfinest are a couple of examples.  You have mentioned your sons' athletic prowess at a young age.  Did he get that because Crosby has state of the art facilities?  Or did he get that because the Crosby ISD invested in necessary items like a coaching staff that knows how to physically develop a young athlete an how to mentally get that athlete motivated to have that development.  The same with ozensfinest.  He parlayed his high school career into signing with an FBS school.  He did that despite having the training facilities of Ozen High, which I am sure he will be happy to tell you were barely modern, much less state of the art.  His school shared what has been referred to in this thread as a "dime a dozen" stadium with two other schools.  Again, his development, other than his own God given ability, was aided by the investment in a guy by the name of Jeff Nelson, who rubbed some folks the wrong way but got miles out of his players.

 

[oldschool2]

32 minutes ago, Cougar14.2 said:

I think the SETX area is falling behind, but I think it's due more to the contraction/stagnation of the entire area in general. It's behind in enrollment, compensation, imagination, facilities and infrastructure as a whole. You can go to south and west Texas and find the exact same issues though. Other than the HISD schools I think the Houston area gets it as far as what it takes to compete. New Caney just built Texan Drive, Katy is building another monster, BH just built a college level indoor facility, Cy-Fair dropped about 60 mil on the Berry Center and even a place like Crosby there was a bond just passed that allocated multi-millions for athletic facilities/improvements. I think that was even after Crosby already spent about a million replacing the old turf with a new rug.

Our problem down here is that we're heavy on single high school ISD's. When you have 30k+ students like Mansfield ISD or 50k+ students like Plano ISD then you have a huge tax base to fund a single stadium and more money for individual facilities on campus. Even an inner-city school like Galena Park, which is in the district with North Shore, has a nice facility behind their school where the players can walk straight out of the field house to a field turf practice field. That's because they have over 22k students in the district and a relatively low income, but huge tax base and therefore have nice facilities for a two high school district. At times the mentality in SETX is that "we did it this way in '76, so we can do it again the same way".

Until the thinking down here becomes more progressive like that of the Dallas, Austin and Houston area suburbs SETX will be bringing up the rear. With all that being said though, I think WOS and North Shore showed you there's no replacement for a community producing great athletes.    

Been saying these exact statements the whole time I've been a member of this site.  I even said one time that I think every high school in the state with less than 500 kids should close or consolidate.  You would've thought I was walking around slapping babies by the ridicule I got.  But that's another subject..

Yes. Stagnant.  "That field was good enough for my grandpa, it's good enough for my kids"...yes that's the mentality.  Spot on.

[Cougar14.2]

30 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

It doesn't take a genius to figure out it's bad business to spend 20 million or so dollars on facilites so that a dozen athletic kids get a scholarship.

Want to go to college for free?  Check out the GI Bill.  The Army could always use some athletes.

No way out my you-know-what.  

 

 

 

 

 

Who said anything about spending 20 million for a dozen kids to get scholarships? All we did was pay a coach and signed 40. Crosby used to have the crappiest stadium in the district. Now that we have a coaching staff in place and renovated the stadium so that more people can attend, the football program alone probably brought in $50,000+ per Friday night. So spending money on athletics grossed Crosby ISD a quarter million dollars in the first semester alone, and I would imagine that's on the low end. So the district is getting a return on it's investment. That's just in addition to the dozens of kids we've signed across the board in all sport recently.

I did happen to work with a couple of guys that went to school on the GI bill though. One happens to be from Silsbee too. Every so often he would take off to go get shrapnel removed from his head as it came to the surface, it was still there from when his Hummer was hit by an IED and split in half with the other three occupants dying on scene. My other buddy is somewhat permanently crippled from an accident where his parachute didn't fully open on a training exercise and he did what he called a "burn in(?)" from 800 feet.

It's not about always about the free part of it, it's the exposure part that kids might miss an opportunity on. Nobody is calling an average to below average student and begging them to come visit their university because it unlikely they'll even be admitted. However, schools will line up to fly that average to below average "student-athlete" to their campus and get them admitted to school if they can help them win. The average to below average student probably never goes to college and even less likely to graduate if they do. The exposure can change the course for some kids, it can be generation-altering for others that normally wouldn't look at that as an option like my son.      

[Cougar14.2]

45 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

I don't think anyone is advocating the defunding of anyone's athletic program.  I think what those who have urged caution is not for OVERSPENDING just to keep up with the Jones.  Your kid and for that matter, ozensfinest are a couple of examples.  You have mentioned your sons' athletic prowess at a young age.  Did he get that because Crosby has state of the art facilities?  Or did he get that because the Crosby ISD invested in necessary items like a coaching staff that knows how to physically develop a young athlete an how to mentally get that athlete motivated to have that development.  The same with ozensfinest.  He parlayed his high school career into signing with an FBS school.  He did that despite having the training facilities of Ozen High, which I am sure he will be happy to tell you were barely modern, much less state of the art.  His school shared what has been referred to in this thread as a "dime a dozen" stadium with two other schools.  Again, his development, other than his own God given ability, was aided by the investment in a guy by the name of Jeff Nelson, who rubbed some folks the wrong way but got miles out of his players.

 

The staff definitely has a hand in getting him where he's trying to go, I think Crosby does it the right way. I even got a text from one of his coaches about that specific issue last week. To a man though, I would tell you he would be a better player at his age if we lived 10 miles down the road in North Shore no matter who the coach was or what the facilities looked like. However, when we went to the opening of the stadium and watched the fireworks and the parachute guy fly in he looked over and said "I can't wait to score touchdowns in this stadium". He even mentioned watching himself run on the replay screen like the pros do, so I think the bells and whistles do give him motivation.

As far as keeping up with the Jones' and the overspending, I fully agree with that. I haven't directly heard anything around town but I'm willing to bet you a paycheck there's someone from Crosby looking into what it would cost to put up the same type of facility BH just built. If you have to leverage yourself to keep up then it's not worth it, but you dang well better see what it cost to keep from falling behind too.   

[Guest ECBucFan]

2 hours ago, Cougar14.2 said:

"SOME" kids "ONLY" way, which is totally correct. You stretched it to an all-inclusive statement to cover "non-athletic" kids which plays more towards the soapbox rhetoric you're trying to get across. If they're "non-athletic" then they're not in the conversation and what you said is a moot/duh point.

 

You are apparently incapable of adequate reading comprehension.

NO, once and for all, athletics IS NOT the ONLY way to the betterment of some young lives. Thats a defeatist attitude that is used by a CRUTCH to excuse away poor life skills and poor personal choices that can lead literally to ruin. If they are smart enough to run multiple offensive or defensive plays in a team setting, they can achieve something!  

My point about the "non-athletic" kids is a perfect illustration of this, and NOT "soapbox rhetoric" you accuse me of, Given your faulty premise, some "non-athletic" 17 year olds or ones with with a poor football program should just QUIT ON LIFE? Right?

One last thing, gasbag, you accuse me of "soapbox", but your rants are longest in this thread, DUH.

     

[Cougar14.2]

43 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Been saying these exact statements the whole time I've been a member of this site.  I even said one time that I think every high school in the state with less than 500 kids should close or consolidate.  You would've thought I was walking around slapping babies by the ridicule I got.  But that's another subject..

Yes. Stagnant.  "That field was good enough for my grandpa, it's good enough for my kids"...yes that's the mentality.  Spot on.

IMO if you have a good superintendent in place like Crosby does with Dr. Moore, he figures out a way to work around people like my dad who will vote "no" on every bond but will gladly buy a ticket and spend $20 more at the merchandise area every Friday night once he gets in the stadium. I think the facilities should reflect the direction the community is heading, and sadly they do sometime in SETX.  

[Cougar14.2]

32 minutes ago, ECBucFan said:

You are apparently incapable of adequate reading comprehension.

NO, once and for all, athletics IS NOT the ONLY way to the betterment of some young lives. Thats a defeatist attitude that is used by a CRUTCH to excuse away poor life skills and poor personal choices that can lead literally to ruin. If they are smart enough to run multiple offensive or defensive plays in a team setting, they can achieve something!  

My point about the "non-athletic" kids is a perfect illustration of this, and NOT "soapbox rhetoric" you accuse me of, Given your faulty premise, some "non-athletic" 17 year olds or ones with with a poor football program should just QUIT ON LIFE? Right?

One last thing, gasbag, you accuse me of "soapbox", but your rants are longest in this thread, DUH.

     

Lol, don't get butt-hurt man. You're just delving into an area you know nothing about. That's clear when your response has dip to that of a petulant child. All kids have a chance, some are just born with inherently better odds than others. This is a football website so once again I'll tell you I'm not talking about non-athletes. Poor life choices are minimized through athletics, poor life skills are rectified through discipline learned in sports, "quitting on life" as you put it becomes less of an option when you have teammates counting on you. That character you spoke of can be improved by deciding if you want to get up and go to Summer workouts or not put forth the effort and be lazy. It's clear you don't get what I'm saying and that's fine, that's what makes us different.

One last thing, about the "gasbag" comment. I just pm'd you my personal cell phone number so that we can meet up and we can find out who's just blowing hot air or are really about it.   

[kicker]

19 hours ago, Uncle Pig said:

You think Coach Thompson would say no if they tried to build him one?

I cant and would never speak for T, but he isnt that type of coach. He is literally "blue collar". Im sure if it was offered he would probably say ok just because it can be used by way more than just the football team. Honestly though, i guarantee you the only time he would use it for football practice is if there was a monsoon outside. If its bearable rain? He will practice outside. Trust me, I know. LOL

[kicker]

17 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

Do the kids and coaches at WO-S deserve the finest in facilities? Absolutely!

Do I wish that they had all of the bells and whistles?  You bet!

Do I wish that every program in Southeast Texas had the indoor practice facilities, field turf on their fields and the state of the art video boards in the end zones? Without a doubt, yes!

That being said, the premise of this thread being that you have to have all of the bells and whistles to have a consistent winning program or to garner a state championship simply isn't the case. 

In fact, let me pose the question this way.  If we all got our most ardent of wishes and EVERY program in the area had all of the above, could you say that any more programs would have brought home a title other than the 1 that was earned this season?  Having seen the teams, a lot of them being high quality teams, probably not.  You see, we here can have those desires and make our demands and covet the best.  That's okay, that is in part what this site is here for and I do it just as much, if not more than anyone. 

Unfortunately, the respective school boards in the area don't operate with the unlimited funds that we wish that they would have.  They have limited, in some cases extremely limited, funds with which to take care of several priorities.  And, much as we wish this was not the case, athletics is not always the priority.  Such a sell is even harder to a resident of the school district who is told that the new athletic facility will results in hundreds, if not thousands, or more in taxes that they will have to dole out every year. 

Will that doom the area to fewer state titles? Perhaps.  However, we can't blame local school districts if their response to such a scenario is "We'll just have to live with that."

 

10 hours ago, Uncle Pig said:

And it's not the boards having limited funds, it's called priorities. If you think for one minute that several of those schools on that list have any more money than a lot of these southeast Texas schools you're kidding yourself.

Yes, it is the boards having limited funds. WOS has the largest tax base in the county. Since the Robin Hood law, that has eliminated any advantage they would have. No names here but WOS tax money has built other school districts new school buildings. That is what the problem is.

[Tiger33]

21 minutes ago, kicker said:

 

Yes, it is the boards having limited funds. WOS has the largest tax base in the county. Since the Robin Hood law, that has eliminated any advantage they would have. No names here but WOS tax money has built other school districts new school buildings. That is what the problem is.

To be clear WOS does give LCM and Orangefield tax money. But theres reasons for that.

[Clueless]

1 hour ago, Cougar14.2 said:

The staff definitely has a hand in getting him where he's trying to go, I think Crosby does it the right way. I even got a text from one of his coaches about that specific issue last week. To a man though, I would tell you he would be a better player at his age if we lived 10 miles down the road in North Shore no matter who the coach was or what the facilities looked like. However, when we went to the opening of the stadium and watched the fireworks and the parachute guy fly in he looked over and said "I can't wait to score touchdowns in this stadium". He even mentioned watching himself run on the replay screen like the pros do, so I think the bells and whistles do give him motivation.

As far as keeping up with the Jones' and the overspending, I fully agree with that. I haven't directly heard anything around town but I'm willing to bet you a paycheck there's someone from Crosby looking into what it would cost to put up the same type of facility BH just built. If you have to leverage yourself to keep up then it's not worth it, but you dang well better see what it cost to keep from falling behind too.   

$12 million is what the indoor facility cost. We also have a new scoreboard and sound system being bought. Basketball just bought a new scoreboard and rumor is Nike is about to be part of BH. Getting rid of the ugly uniforms.  Lol

[Uncle Pig]

18 minutes ago, LCM17 said:

To be clear WOS does give LCM and Orangefield tax money. But theres reasons for that.

Orangefield looks like something from Grapes of Wrath

[Tiger33]

23 minutes ago, Uncle Pig said:

Orangefield looks like something from Grapes of Wrath

I would think Orangefield will be working on there schools in a few years. Its been there a long time and they have a lot new growth. LCM has a little growth with a new sub division that is coming pretty soon.

[ozensfinest]

3 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

I don't think anyone is advocating the defunding of anyone's athletic program.  I think what those who have urged caution is not for OVERSPENDING just to keep up with the Jones.  Your kid and for that matter, ozensfinest are a couple of examples.  You have mentioned your sons' athletic prowess at a young age.  Did he get that because Crosby has state of the art facilities?  Or did he get that because the Crosby ISD invested in necessary items like a coaching staff that knows how to physically develop a young athlete an how to mentally get that athlete motivated to have that development.  The same with ozensfinest.  He parlayed his high school career into signing with an FBS school.  He did that despite having the training facilities of Ozen High, which I am sure he will be happy to tell you were barely modern, much less state of the art.  His school shared what has been referred to in this thread as a "dime a dozen" stadium with two other schools.  Again, his development, other than his own God given ability, was aided by the investment in a guy by the name of Jeff Nelson, who rubbed some folks the wrong way but got miles out of his players.

 

So many things you are wrong about in this statement....for one I never played for Nelson two without athletics I would've never gone to college me or anybody else in my high school class that played sports. I was the first person amongst my siblings to go to college, so I go back to my original statement athletics are some kids(like myself, Willie Jefferson, Breon etc.) only way out. My parents couldn't afford to pay for me to go to school neither could those parents of the guys I just mentioned. In the 9th grade I knew that my only way into college would be through athletics. My development had nothing to do with any coach or workout facility the butch wasn't even around when I was in school. Me and the other guys that went to college did so off strictly natural ability we definitely didn't lift weights like we supposed to. Now maybe if there were an state of the art facility in place we would've worked out and who knows maybe even won a few more games.

[CardinalBacker]

Don't tell anybody, but we have a plan, too. They're building another new low income apartment complex in BC and there's a new low to mid housing project being proposed. 

If you build it, "they" will come, lol. 

[Uncle Pig]

15 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Don't tell anybody, but we have a plan, too. They're building another new low income apartment complex in BC and there's a new low to mid housing project being proposed. 

If you build it, "they" will come, lol. 

i just fell out laughing!

[Silsbee92]

4 hours ago, Cougar14.2 said:

I did happen to work with a couple of guys that went to school on the GI bill though. One happens to be from Silsbee too. Every so often he would take off to go get shrapnel removed from his head as it came to the surface, it was still there from when his Hummer was hit by an IED and split in half with the other three occupants dying on scene. My other buddy is somewhat permanently crippled from an accident where his parachute didn't fully open on a training exercise and he did what he called a "burn in(?)" from 800 feet.

I'm gonna hope that this wasn't meant the way I think it was.

The point should have been that there was another option to get a college education. It's pretty much an all VOLUNTARY DECISION.

Those of us who served for a purpose generally didn't do it for college, and most if not all understood before basic was over what it might cost us.  

You tell those "guys" you know that my kids thank them, my wife thanks them, my parents thank them and most of all 

I salute them.  Even if they don't want it.

My brothers and sisters In Arms.

 

[Morris_era]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Don't tell anybody, but we have a plan, too. They're building another new low income apartment complex in BC and there's a new low to mid housing project being proposed. 

If you build it, "they" will come, lol. 

Who is they? Please enlighten us...

[Go-rilla]

I like that people are taking this post personal! Shows pride. I have mounds of respect for wos and all east Texas programs. No way at all bashing players, coaches or communities.

i am saying that Hardin has turf, east chambers has beautiful facilities, woodville has a beautiful gym, but Wos who played in 16 games all of which people came to see and paid admission is saying no funds???

I think if you have the best football program in setx everything in your program would be 1st class. Your kids and coaches deserve it!

[Guest]

Hardin in whom I love with all my heart has had turf for 8 years, now = Not winning football games.

Just built a new weight room that looks very sharp.

Yes, gym was built poorly in 1994 - did not plan accordingly or perhaps the design engineer just needs to be slapped. The gym itself is PLENTY large enough but the layout is piss poor. No seating capacity.

Either way, that was the previous board who was responsible for that huge mistake.

But facilities are starting to come around very well in Hardin, Texas. Probably top 40-50 ranked losing'est 3A football school in the state of Texas

What we don't have, is what I have been WANTING and saying for 5-6 years now (since I been back in Hardin). "ATHLETES"

In the early 2000's, we had dynamic black athletes. Kids that could really Go........Since 2003, there has been ONE black star in Hardin, America. NOT going to cut it !!!!

It's very obvious to me when we face programs with diversity, WEEK IN and WEEK OUT. Now, we just stepped it up a HUGE notch, thanks to UIL. Hello La Marque, Hitchcock and Hempstead......

We're now in a district where this is mandatory and guess what? My daughters are in elementary and 2 black kids in entire class. NOT ACCEPTABLE.

So, this is a news bulletin to any and every parent in the greater southeast Texas area. We can offer you a great education, great environment, family friendly and loving people. We just need your kids in Hardin......I may be able to talk to a few friends who are plant management on the Hill and we'll see what we can't do to get your son a starting position right away. - This is certainly something I have influence in.  Oh, and a brand new multi-million dollar elementary is set to complete in April of 2017.

[Goblin]

On February 10, 2016 at 5:13 PM, Uncle Pig said:

Most recent count (still waiting on a few precincts), Dallas/Fort Worth area has 57 indoor practices facilities, with 8 more in the works.

- per Corbett Smith Dallas morning news 

Dallas - Fort Worth also has zero state championships 2015

[The Icon]

8 hours ago, Goblin said:

Dallas - Fort Worth also has zero state championships 2015

Turn back the clock a calendar year duder