Discussion question:

[RETIREDFAN1]

Only when the Bible is taken in it's proper grammatical and contextual form can you get God's meaning....the problem is that men think they have the right to "interpret" God's Word....when that occurs, the message becomes subjective to each man's "interpretation" instead of the objective Word of God......the ONLY ones who are right and correct are those who don't "interpret" God's Word, but take it at face value....God meant what God said, and we don't get to "interpret" or change it because some things may make us uncomfortable.....and the major proof, in fact the only proof that I need that it is God's Word is when men try to "interpret" it, there are contradictions....in it's pure, proper, grammatical and contextual form the Bible has no contradictions whatsoever......so to show someone they are teaching error and falsehood, all one needs to do is show them where their teaching causes a contradiction in God's Word......and every single man-made denomination is full of contradictory teaching......

[RETIREDFAN1]

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

[Aces_Full]

So we should take the Bible literally?  

Taken literally, the Bible says 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

, it has pillars, and will not be moved (

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 93:1, Ps 96:10, 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 2:8, 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 9:6). It says that great sea monsters are set to guard the edge of the sea (Job 41, Ps 104:26).

Thoughts?  

[RETIREDFAN1]

20 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

So we should take the Bible literally?  

Taken literally, the Bible says 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

, it has pillars, and will not be moved (

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 93:1, Ps 96:10, 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 2:8, 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 9:6). It says that great sea monsters are set to guard the edge of the sea (Job 41, Ps 104:26).

Thoughts?  

2 Timothy 2:15English Standard Version (ESV)

¹⁵ Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

 

Rightly handling the Word means reading it contextually and with proper grammar and discerning from those  which parts are literal and which parts are poetic...the Bible was given to us by God to be understood....all one has to do is read it with an open mind to find God's Truth.......

 

NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that the earth is flat....the pillars of the earth are the continental shelves....and in our perception, that does NOT move......

 

as for the sea monsters, have you ever heard of dinosaurs??? Leviathan sounds very much like a pliosaurus.....

 

try again, though....I love sharpening my skills in debates with you atheists and agnostics.....

 

[RETIREDFAN1]

The book of Job describes several scientific concepts in poetic language.....

The terminator, the line between night and day, which implies knowledge of the fact that the earth is round, not flat:

Job 26:10English Standard Version (ESV)

¹⁰ He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters
    at the boundary between light and darkness.

 

 

 

We also get a poetic insight as to how the earth appears from space, something which no-one at that time could know unless it were revealed to them by God.....

 

Job 26:7English Standard Version (ESV)

⁷ He stretches out the north over the void
    and hangs the earth on nothing.

 

We see the expanding universe, which man just discovered last century described:

 

Job 9:8English Standard Version (ESV)

⁸ who alone stretched out the heavens
    and trampled the waves of the sea;

 

We are taught that the stars have their own signals, give out their own frequencies....

 

Job 38:7English Standard Version (ESV)

⁷ when the morning stars sang together
    and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

The Bible is not the book you atheists and agnostics want the rest of us to believe that it is....it IS the Word of God, revealing His plan for man's redemption from sin.....thanks for the opportunity to share these insights from His Word.....

 

 

[Aces_Full]

Never said I was atheist or agnostic.  But as with all versions of religious texts, your interpretations and mine may be vastly different.  I think you should read up more on the actual history of the Hebrew Bible, and how it was constructed into its modern version.  You seem to want to pick & choose to take some scriptures as literal and others as interpretive.  

[Aces_Full]

You skipped Job 9:6

[Aces_Full]

I don't care what you believe in.  It's your right to believe as you choose in our free country.  I am just here to raise questions.  Why are some gospels not included in the Bible?  Nostics, etc?  Why do you choose some scripture as literal and others as interpretive?  Why is your interpretation better than say Omish or Mennonites?  All valid questions with no real answers.  

[RETIREDFAN1]

30 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

You skipped Job 9:6

Job 9:6English Standard Version (ESV)

⁶ who shakes the earth out of its place,
    and its pillars tremble;

a very poetic description of an earthquake.........

[RETIREDFAN1]

29 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

I don't care what you believe in.  It's your right to believe as you choose in our free country.  I am just here to raise questions.  Why are some gospels not included in the Bible?  Nostics, etc?  Why do you choose some scripture as literal and others as interpretive?  Why is your interpretation better than say Omish or Mennonites?  All valid questions with no real answers.  

We have all that we need to show us God's path for redemption from sin......

2 Peter 1:3English Standard Version (ESV)

³ His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to[

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

] his own glory and excellence,

Those "gospels" that you claim have been left out are fakes and hoaxes......all written well after the First Century when the Divine Inspiration of the Holy Spirit was revealing God's Word to those Christians and they were writing it down for us......

 

I don't choose some Scripture as literal and some not.... God chose to reveal it that way and I don't question Him....the responsibility of anyone trying to find  God's Will is to do what Paul told Timothy which I posted above.......it's not hard....

 

I don't interpret the Bible...we do not GET to interpret God's Word.....He spoke it, we believe it just like it is......when we "interpret" it, it becomes subject to whomever "interprets" it and becomes full of contradictions....when it is taken at face value without any attempts at "interpretation" there are no contradictions and we know that we are reading His Words........there are the real answers to  your "valid" questions......

[RETIREDFAN1]

41 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

Never said I was atheist or agnostic.  But as with all versions of religious texts, your interpretations and mine may be vastly different.  I think you should read up more on the actual history of the Hebrew Bible, and how it was constructed into its modern version.  You seem to want to pick & choose to take some scriptures as literal and others as interpretive.  

We don't get to "interpret" God's Word.......men trying to "interpret" God's Word is what has caused all the division and denominations.....I don't "pick and choose" to take some scripture literally and others not....GOD chose that in the manner He revealed it to us......You either believe God, or you don't.......simple as that......and if you are someone who feels the need to "interpret" God's Word, they you, by definition, do not believe......ergo: you are either an atheist or an agnostic by definition......

[tvc184]

4 hours ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Only when the Bible is taken in it's proper grammatical and contextual form can you get God's meaning....the problem is that men think they have the right to "interpret" God's Word....when that occurs, the message becomes subjective to each man's "interpretation" instead of the objective Word of God...........

Here is the problem with your statement. You claim that man cannot interpret God. Okay, I can understand that. The problem is that the Bible is not a text book that explains every details. A lot is left open to interpretations or if you don't like that word, teaching. 

As as example of this in your response about the Earth being flat because there are "pillars" you correctly say that the Earth being flat is not specifically stated in the Bible. You then go on to say that the "pillars" means the continental shelves. 

Okay..... so my question to you is, where in the Bible does it say that "pillars" are continental shelves? Perhaps that could be an interpretation? I was reading one "interpretation" that the pillars are the mountains. 

In either case the pillars would be a feature of the earth but both likewise would seem to me to be an interpretation.... which you claim cannot be done.  Where in this truth of God's word does it say that pillars means continental shelves? 

The irony is that you say interpretation is not allowed to follow God's meaning and to back it up you give an interpretation. I can only assume that you mean only your interpretation counts.

[RETIREDFAN1]

46 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

I don't care what you believe in.  It's your right to believe as you choose in our free country.  I am just here to raise questions.  Why are some gospels not included in the Bible?  Nostics, etc?  Why do you choose some scripture as literal and others as interpretive?  Why is your interpretation better than say Omish or Mennonites?  All valid questions with no real answers.  

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

[RETIREDFAN1]

Just now, tvc184 said:

Here is the problem with your statement. You claim that man cannot interpret God. Okay, I can understand that. The problem is that the Bible is not a text book that explains every details. A lot is left open to interpretations or if you don't like that word, teaching. 

As as example of this in your response about the Earth being flat because there are "pillars" you correctly say that the Earth being flat is not specifically stated in the Bible. You then go on to say that the "pillars" means the continental shelves. 

Okay..... so my question to you is, where in the Bible does it say that "pillars" are continental shelves? Perhaps that could be an interpretation? I was reading one "interpretation" that the pillars are the mountains. 

In either case the pillars would be a feature of the earth but both likewise would seem to me to be an interpretation.... which you claim cannot be done.  Where in this truth of God's word does it say that pillars means continental shelves? 

The irony is that you say interpretation is not allowed to follow God's meaning and to back it up you give an interpretation. I can only assume that you mean only your interpretation counts.

No irony or interpretation at all.......Job called them the "pillars of the earth".....I can look at a graphic view of the continental shelves and know what "pillars of the earth" mean today....that is translation, not interpretation......in fact, here's a picture for you....looks a lot like pillars........translation is not interpretation.......

 

 

[tvc184]

5 hours ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

 

Oh the comedy of your response. You aren't interpreting the Bible for us, you are translating it. 

The point that you are glossing over is that you are adamant that the Bible does not say the world is flat but ignore that nowhere in the Bible does it describe pillars as continental shelves. You have the belief that it must be, probably because you have been told that by someone or read it somewhere.... but wait, that would be another person giving their interpretation what the word "pillar" means. No wait, that would not be an interpretation, it would be a translation.

I have a question for you. Why do we attend church or go to Sunday school? I have been to church in many denominations and in every single one, including some non-denominational churches, has had a person giving a sermon. That person is not only reading from the Bible the verse but explaining what it means. Under any word you choose to use, isn't that an interpretation or translation or whatever as given by man? If the word of God is so clear that we merely need to read the verse and it stands alone, why do we need church or Sunday school at all? 

 

[Aces_Full]

LOL...now you are using semantics to make your point.  It's a "translation" not an "interpretation."  Translation from what language?  You are most definitely interpreting the Bible.  Again, you should do more reading on the history of the Bible, since you have already mastered it's interpretation...I mean "translation".  

And again, how is your "translation" right, and say the Greek Orthodox Christians (or any other denomination) wrong?  

[RETIREDFAN1]

1 minute ago, tvc184 said:

Oh the comedy of your response. You aren't interpreting the Bible for us, you are translating it. 

The point that you are glossing over is that you are adamant that the Bible does not say the world is flat but ignore that nowhere in the Bible does it describe pillars as continental shelves. You have the belief that it must be, probably because you have been told that by someone or read it somewhere.... but wait, that would be another person giving their interpretation what the word "pillar" means. No wait, that would not be an interpretation, it would be a translation.

I have a question for you. Why do we attend church or go to Sunday school? I have been to church in many denominations and in every single one, including some non-denominational churches, has had a person giving a sermon. That person is not only reading from the Bible the verse but explaining what it means. Under any word you choose to use, isn't that an interpretation or translation or whatever as given by man? If the word of God is so clear that we merely need to read the verse and it stands alone, why do we need church or Sunday school at all? 

 

That's why you were in a denomination instead of the Lord's Church.....too much "interpretation" and subjectivity and not enough faith in God and the FACT that He said exactly what he means.........reading scripture and backing that passage up with more scripture is how we are to handle  God's Word.......if your preacher is doing anything else but that, you are not in a congregation of the Lord's Church.......

We go to Worship on Sunday because of the example we get from the book of Acts and the letters of Paul.....we worship God in the manner HE showed us to worship Him.......there is no command or example for "Sunday School" to be added, and it's not forbidden, so you have "Sunday School" as an extra time to attempt to LEARN God's Word and God's Will........

[5GallonBucket]

1 hour ago, Aces_Full said:

I don't care what you believe in.  It's your right to believe as you choose in our free country.  I am just here to raise questions.  Why are some gospels not included in the Bible?  Nostics, etc?  Why do you choose some scripture as literal and others as interpretive?  Why is your interpretation better than say Omish or Mennonites?  All valid questions with no real answers.  

SO you don't care what someone believes in even if it is false or if it teaches to kill infidels or that it is ok to have multiple wives(wives that may be 12 years of age). 

 

[RETIREDFAN1]

6 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

LOL...now you are using semantics to make your point.  It's a "translation" not an "interpretation."  Translation from what language?  You are most definitely interpreting the Bible.  Again, you should do more reading on the history of the Bible, since you have already mastered it's interpretation...I mean "translation".  

And again, how is your "translation" right, and say the Greek Orthodox Christians (or any other denomination) wrong?  

Translation..... the rendering of something into another language or into one's own from another language.

Interpretation..... an explanation of the meaning of another's artistic or creative work; an elucidation:

 

Translation is acceptable......Interpretation is not......Translation does not add to or take from God's meaning....Interpretation does add to or take from God's meaning........

 

Your final question is absurd since it attempts to use the definition of interpretation to describe a translation.....try again, though.....this is fun......

 

[5GallonBucket]

I would like yall to read Muscle and Shovel by Michael Shank

It will upset you and make you mad at first, but read it all the way thru and as you read have your new king james version with ya as well.

Keep in Mind .......NARROW IS THE GATE

[Aces_Full]

21 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

SO you don't care what someone believes in even if it is false or if it teaches to kill infidels or that it is ok to have multiple wives(wives that may be 12 years of age). 

 

Talk about a misinterpretation of MY words.  I don't care what you believe in, as long as it does not affect me, or infringe upon my rights.  Our culture has advanced to the point where we have a much higher moral code than certain other parts of the world.  But that is not necessarily based in the Old Testament.  You are going off on a tangent now.  

[Aces_Full]

Translations are literally word for word.  Your interpretation of pillars in the Bible into tectonic plates is most certainly NOT a literal translation.  It is a huge stretch to make that interpretation.   

[Aces_Full]

May I ask what denomination of Christianity that you adhere to Comesneil?  

[5GallonBucket]

1 minute ago, Aces_Full said:

Talk about a misinterpretation of MY words.  I don't care what you believe in, as long as it does not affect me.  Our culture has advanced to the point where we have a much higher moral code than certain other parts of the world.  But that is not necessarily based in the Old Testament.  You are going off on a tangent now.  

nope no tangent here....just wanted clarification.

so from what I mentioned that's not a possibility of affecting you......ever.

also are you saying that I (a human being) misinterpreted your words?

Has our culture really advanced that much when it comes to morals?  I ve lived in a 3rd world country before.

 

[Aces_Full]

The West certainly has advanced socially, more than say some Middle Eastern or some African countries, on topics such as women's rights.  But this is getting away from the original topic of this thread.  

So the best translation of the Old and New Testaments, the Koran, and the Torah are the most literal ones.  Correct?