Discussion question:

[RETIREDFAN1]

8 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

Waiting on a YES or NO answer from Colmesneilfan on this?   Not another scripture with words omitted.  

Ive answered it four times already........read......

[RETIREDFAN1]

2 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

 

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For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 

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not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I'll even use the ESV.  We are saved not by anything we do...you can't do anything to earn salvation...it is a gift.  Baptism is simply an obedient act that follows.

I'm about done here...would still like to get an answer to my question...as a Baptist,Methodist, Lutheran etc, am I saved

Doing what God told us to do is not a work........baptism is a COMMAND from God that saves us when our faith is deep enough to give up our preconceived notions and the false denominational teaching....

 

For the FIFTH time now, No, you are not saved if you are a member of one of the false,man made denominations.......SCRIPTURE shows that very clearly.......

[Aces_Full]

Can't wait to see the look on Colmesneilfan's face when he sees me in Heaven.  

[RETIREDFAN1]

7 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

Can't wait to see the look on Colmesneilfan's face when he sees me in Heaven.  

[LumRaiderFan]

5 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Doing what God told us to do is not a work........baptism is a COMMAND from God that saves us when our faith is deep enough to give up our preconceived notions and the false denominational teaching....

 

For the FIFTH time now, No, you are not saved if you are a member of one of the false,man made denominations.......SCRIPTURE shows that very clearly.......

There it is...

Have a good day C1.

 

[LumRaiderFan]

8 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

Can't wait to see the look on Colmesneilfan's face when he sees me in Heaven.  

Me too 

I think I'll bring a guitar.

[RETIREDFAN1]

2 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

There it is...

Have a good day C1.

 

You could have left hours ago.......I said it five times.......lol.......

 

you  have a nice day, too.......

[RETIREDFAN1]

2 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Me too 

I think I'll bring a guitar.

[mat]

Luke 18

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9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner. 14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

[5GallonBucket]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 9:05 PM, LumRaiderFan said:

I am not going to argue this with you on a forum (you do know we are not to do that either, right?)

I will just point out the Scripture I put up, Roman 10:9 is very clear, people are the ones that pile on extra stuff and become legalistic.

The "believe in your heart" is where it starts and if you truly believe, you will follow along with the rest.

Do I believe you should be baptized...absolutely...if you aren't baptized, will that keep you from going to Heaven if you are saved...nope.

Pretty sure the thief on the Cross never got baptized.

 

Mark 16:15-16 

Jesus commanded them(apostles) to preach his word. "whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved"               "AND" in conjuction with.....doesn't say "or"

Matthew 28:18-20 Jesus commanded

Acts 2:38 - Peter said to them Repent AND be Baptized

Acts 8:12 - Samaritans baptized in response to Philips Preaching

1 Peter 3:21

Many go to Eph 2:8-9  "saved by grace thru faith, not works...."

some say baptism is a work and uses these versus to say baptism is not necessary. That is taken out of context.  Paul was writing to the church of Ephesus....New Christians being influenced by jewish converts.  Jews that were under law of Moses were trying to teach the new gentile Christians that they had to be circumcised which is the work Paul was talking about. Paul was correcting the jews..... mosaic law was no longer.

Galatians 5:1-6 Paul says if you follow mosaic law you fall from grace.

The Apostles and Prophets obeyed the commission given by Jesus so what authority do we reject baptism?

John 15 - Jesus said "if you love me keep my commandments"

As humans we get caught up in "how does water save us"  Its not the water but having faith in God's  commandments and obeying it.  Faith - the exercise of obedience toward the commandments of God

It is necessary for salvation

    *Jesus Commanded it (earlier versus)

     *Romans 6 -   in baptism we are able to parallel his(Jesus) death, burial, and resurrection.  he gives us salvation and we join him in the likeness of the act by being baptized

    *colossians 2:12-14 Buried in Baptism

BELIEF/Faith alone is false

James2:17 "even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone"

James 2:19 "thou believest that there is one God, thou does well:  The Devils also believe and tremble"  Devil believes but is not saved

James 2:24 "ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith only"

Thief on the Cross Argument

Luke 23:42-43  Thief/Jesus Conv.   Jesus did as he saw fit...he walked a perfectly righteous life.  he performed miracles and signs while on earth he healed, forgave and saved men while he walked.

Galations -  Law of Christ did not go into effect until after Christ's Death

Hebrews 9

While Jesus lived Jews were still under mosaic law and gentiles under patriarchal law

Both reconciled together into one body  Eph 2:14-16

 

 

 

[5GallonBucket]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 7:57 AM, LumRaiderFan said:

The moment you accept Christ into you heart, you are saved.

You should follow with Baptism as a public display of your acceptance of Christ, but that won't keep you out of Heaven.

That would make a deathbed confession null and void.

Death bed confession argument

Old man on his death bed believed in Jesus and had faith but died before being baptized.  Society says "how can God condemn old man, he didn't get a chance to be baptized" 

Flip it - old man was being told the story of Jesus, but died while being told, so now old man didn't get the chance to believe so should God allow him into Heaven cause he didn't get a chance to hear the whole story just as he didn't get a chance to be Baptized?

In both cases he dies before an opportunity

You must chew AND swallow to live.  If you chew but don't swallow you die and if you do neither you die.

Numbers 21:4-9   " look upon the serpent to live"  commanded by God

Shows that God is a just God and shows no pity/remorse for those that do not obey his commandments

John 3:5  Jesus said "man must be born of water and spirit"

Acts 2:38 Peter confirms it

[LumRaiderFan]

You guys should focus more on saving those who are lost rather than nitpicking with those that are saved.

One denomination does not have the only congregation of saved folks...thank God.

There are way way more Theologians that agree that Baptism should follow Salvation, but is not a requirement for it.

I have no problem with anyone believing that (won't keep you out of Heaven) but my beliefs won't keep me out of heaven either.

Salvation is a gift, nothing you can do can earn it...are there Commandments you SHOULD follow afterward...absolutely.

I think the Scripture Mat posted needs to be reread by some.

 

[5GallonBucket]

21 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

You guys should focus more on saving those who are lost rather than nitpicking with those that are saved.

One denomination does not have the only congregation of saved folks...thank God.

There are way way more Theologians that agree that Baptism should follow Salvation, but is not a requirement for it.

I have no problem with anyone believing that (won't keep you out of Heaven) but my beliefs won't keep me out of heaven either.

Salvation is a gift, nothing you can do can earn it...are there Commandments you SHOULD follow afterward...absolutely.

I think the Scripture Mat posted needs to be reread by some.

 

its not a denomination.

so you believe theologians over the word of GOD.

I cannot comprehend why people cannot understand Mark 16:15-16, Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 2:38.   Which simply states what Jesus commanded us to do.

[RETIREDFAN1]

8 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

You guys should focus more on saving those who are lost rather than nitpicking with those that are saved.

One denomination does not have the only congregation of saved folks...thank God.

There are way way more Theologians that agree that Baptism should follow Salvation, but is not a requirement for it.

I have no problem with anyone believing that (won't keep you out of Heaven) but my beliefs won't keep me out of heaven either.

Salvation is a gift, nothing you can do can earn it...are there Commandments you SHOULD follow afterward...absolutely.

I think the Scripture Mat posted needs to be reread by some.

 

We are trying to teach the lost....if you have not been baptized for the remission of your sins, you are NOT saved.....the Lord's Church is not one of your false, man made denominations, it's founding can be read about in Acts 2.........

DOING what God said to do in order to receive His freely offered gift is not earning anything......

Luke 17:10English Standard Version (ESV)

10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants;[

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] we have only done what was our duty.’

 

the he scripture mat posted tells us that when we approach God in prayer we should do so humbly.....

 

James 4:10English Standard Version (ESV)

10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

 

when we stand for THE TRUTH, we are to do so boldly......

 

Ephesians 6:19English Standard Version (ESV)

19 and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel,

 

Always being ready to defend THE TRUTH

 

1 Peter 3:15English Standard Version (ESV)

15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LumRaiderFan]

12 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

its not a denomination.

so you believe theologians over the word of GOD.

I cannot comprehend why people cannot understand Mark 16:15-16, Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 2:38.   Which simply states what Jesus commanded us to do.

As does Romans 10:9.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It doesn't tack on anything else...if there were something else to DO, it would not be a gift, you would have earned it.

The works follow Salvation, but are not a requirement of it.

I'm good with that...if you aren't, OK.

And yes, the Church of Christ is a denomination.

[RETIREDFAN1]

5 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

As does Romans 10:9.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It doesn't tack on anything else...if there were something else to DO, it would not be a gift, you would have earned it.

The works follow Salvation, but are not a requirement of it.

I'm good with that...if you aren't, OK.

And yes, the Church of Christ is a denomination.

Read Luke from my previous post about earning anything......also, the passage you quoted mentions nothing about repentance......so evidently you can be saved without repenting according to your logic........works are a part of faithful living, and are required as well, not because they earn us anything, but because God COMMANDED it......

 

James 2:14-26English Standard Version (ESV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[

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] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

 

And no, the Lords Church is not a denomination by any definition of the word.....

 

[LumRaiderFan]

15 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Read Luke from my previous post about earning anything......also, the passage you quoted mentions nothing about repentance......so evidently you can be saved without repenting according to your logic........works are a part of faithful living, and are required as well, not because they earn us anything, but because God COMMANDED it......

 

James 2:14-26English Standard Version (ESV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[

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] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

 

And no, the Lords Church is not a denomination by any definition of the word.....

 

So what Commandments are required for me to follow to earn my way into Heaven...I would like a complete list.

Do not leave any out or you may miss out.

There is the Great Commandment...so is there a quota I must fill or just one every now and then to earn my Salvation...your way is so confusing.

By the way, that Scripture is taken out of context more than any other (mainly by the works oriented denominations), it is simply saying IF you are saved, your works will reflect it.

We will just have to agree to disagee on this one.

 

[Aces_Full]

Hell gonna be over crowded and Heaven is gonna be a ghost town according to Colmesneilfan.  

[RETIREDFAN1]

1 hour ago, LumRaiderFan said:

So what Commandments are required for me to follow to earn my way into Heaven...I would like a complete list.

Do not leave any out or you may miss out.

There is the Great Commandment...so is there a quota I must fill or just one every now and then to earn my Salvation...your way is so confusing.

By the way, that Scripture is taken out of context more than any other (mainly by the works oriented denominations), it is simply saying IF you are saved, your works will reflect it.

We will just have to agree to disagee on this one.

 

Following His commandments doesn't "earn" us anything.......

 

Luke 17:10English Standard Version (ESV)

10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants;[

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] we have only done what was our duty

 

After we hear and BELIEVE His word (an action or work by the way), He tells us to REPENT of our past sins (another action or work).....

John 3:16.....Acts 2:38

 

He tells us to acknowledge or to CONFESS that He Is The Messiah ( yet another action or work).......

Romans 10:9

 

He tells us to be baptized for remission of sins (another action on our part).....

Acts 2:38......Acts 22:16......Mark 16:15-16......

 

He also tells us we must live faithful lives until we die (even more action by us)............Revelation 2:10

 

as you can see there are several things He REQUIRES us to do if we are to receive His freely offered gift of salvation.......not a one of them earns salvation, we are simply OBEYING our God.........and it's only confusing to those who want to be saved their way, not Gods Way......anyone with faith will DO WHAT GOD TOLD THEM TO DO........

 

The passage from James was not misused......it is one of those passages that show us how to live a faithful life........

 

you never answered about where is repentance in Romans 10:9.......

 

 

 

[LumRaiderFan]

9 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Following His commandments doesn't "earn" us anything.......

 

Luke 17:10English Standard Version (ESV)

10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants;[

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] we have only done what was our duty

 

After we hear and BELIEVE His word (an action or work by the way), He tells us to REPENT of our past sins (another action or work).....

John 3:16.....Acts 2:38

 

He tells us to acknowledge or to CONFESS that He Is The Messiah ( yet another action or work).......

Romans 10:9

 

He tells us to be baptized for remission of sins (another action on our part).....

Acts 2:38......Acts 22:16......Mark 16:15-16......

 

He also tells us we must live faithful lives until we die (even more action by us)............Revelation 2:10

 

as you can see there are several things He REQUIRES us to do if we are to receive His freely offered gift of salvation.......not a one of them earns salvation, we are simply OBEYING our God.........and it's only confusing to those who want to be saved their way, not Gods Way......anyone with faith will DO WHAT GOD TOLD THEM TO DO........

 

The passage from James was not misused......it is one of those passages that show us how to live a faithful life........

 

you never answered about where is repentance in Romans 10:9.......

 

 

 

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

If you confess and believe, I mean really believe (not just saying you do) the repentance has already taken place through the Holy Spirit.

It ends with thou shalt be saved after you confess and believe...very simple.

God didn't make a mistake and leave anything out. 

[RETIREDFAN1]

43 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

Hell gonna be over crowded and Heaven is gonna be a ghost town according to Colmesneilfan.  

According to JESUS.......

 

Matthew 7:13-14English Standard Version (ESV)

13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[

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] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few

 

 

[RETIREDFAN1]

18 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

If you confess and believe, I mean really believe (not just saying you do) the repentance has already taken place through the Holy Spirit.

It ends with thou shalt be saved after you confess and believe...very simple.

God didn't make a mistake and leave anything out. 

Repentance is an ACTION by us.......

in Luke 13:3 it is an ACTION COMMANDED by Jesus......in Acts 2:38 in response to the question "what shall we DO"' Peter told them to repent and be baptized.....so God says repentance is an action......

God didn't make an error.....the error comes from the false teachers who say that God doesn't require us to DO WHAT HE SAID TO DO in order to be saved.....because IF you truly believe Him, you will DO WHAT HE SAID TO DO.......if you really believe, not just SAY you believe, then what holds you back from doing what He said to do???

 

 

[RETIREDFAN1]

Matthew 7:24-27English Standard Version (ESV)

Build Your House on the Rock

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

[LumRaiderFan]

5 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Repentance is an ACTION by us.......

in Luke 13:3 it is an ACTION COMMANDED by Jesus......in Acts 2:38 in response to the question "what shall we DO"' Peter told them to repent and be baptized.....so God says repentance is an action......

God didn't make an error.....the error comes from the false teachers who say that God doesn't require us to DO WHAT HE SAID TO DO in order to be saved.....because IF you truly believe Him, you will DO WHAT HE SAID TO DO.......if you really believe, not just SAY you believe, then what holds you back from doing what He said to do???

 

 

I think that is what I said. 

"If you confess and believe, I mean really believe (not just saying you do) the repentance has already taken place through the Holy Spirit."

If you truly believe, you have been compelled by the Holy Spirit to repent.

I'll be fine C1...worry about someone else that doesn't know Scripture.

[LumRaiderFan]

4 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Matthew 7:24-27English Standard Version (ESV)

Build Your House on the Rock

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

If someone does not do the things that God commands them to do, they weren't saved to begin with.

If doesn't mean you have to do them in order to be saved.

Are you saying if you accept Jesus into your heart but die on the way to the Church of Christ to be Baptized, or you never got the chance to evangelize you aren't going to make it to Heaven?

Is that what you are saying?

As I have already said, Salvation is a gift...you cannot do anything to earn it.