Discussion question:

[5GallonBucket]

10 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I am not going to argue this with you on a forum (you do know we are not to do that either, right?)

I will just point out the Scripture I put up, Roman 10:9 is very clear, people are the ones that pile on extra stuff and become legalistic.

The "believe in your heart" is where it starts and if you truly believe, you will follow along with the rest.

Do I believe you should be baptized...absolutely...if you aren't baptized, will that keep you from going to Heaven if you are saved...nope.

Pretty sure the thief on the Cross never got baptized.

 

 

1 minute ago, LumRaiderFan said:

What are you talking about...that is not what I said.

If that is not what you said then what did you say. 

[LumRaiderFan]

Just now, 5GallonBucket said:

 

If that is not what you said then what did you say. 

The moment you accept Christ into you heart, you are saved.

You should follow with Baptism as a public display of your acceptance of Christ, but that won't keep you out of Heaven.

That would make a deathbed confession null and void.

[Aces_Full]

I have a problem with a Church of Christ (Christian) telling a whole denomination (ie. Catholics) that they are not going to Heaven because they don't worship the right way.  You mean to tell me that your understanding & "translation" of the Bible is greater than a Catholic priest who has went to seminary & dedicated his whole life to Bible studies?    

This question is directed to Colmesneil?  

[RETIREDFAN1]

43 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

My argument isn't with you or God...all I am saying is I have seen how you have talked to what seems to be non-believers...

"try again, though....I love sharpening my skills in debates with you atheists and agnostics..... "

and if I were them it would make me want to have no part in any Church you were involved in.

Remember, you have to get them in the door first...you have a good day, if these tactics are working for you and folks are flocking to your Church, carry on.

If you don't believe what God says and aren't willing to hear and obey His Word, you are wasting your time anyway.......just a cursory study of His word shows clearly that God wants obedient disciples, and if you aren't willing to be an obedient disciple, believing His Word, then you are right, you don't want to worship with a congregation of Gods people......that's your choice, though......

[RETIREDFAN1]

46 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

We hold each other accountable as Christians...I'm talking about how we talk to non-believers.

Point out all the things you see wrong with someone as a non-believer and see how long they keep listening.

Yet pointing out their sins is exactly what we are told to do......if someone does not recognize that they are a sinner, they are not able to repent......a gathering of God's people in isn't a touchy feely group therapy session......it is to worship God in the manner He told us to worship Him, and to challenge anyone not penitent to repent...

 

[RETIREDFAN1]

39 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

The moment you accept Christ into you heart, you are saved.

You should follow with Baptism as a public display of your acceptance of Christ, but that won't keep you out of Heaven.

That would make a deathbed confession null and void.

Please provide Scripture to support that........

[Whoa]

2 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Please provide Scripture to support that........

I love a good Christian quote. 

[LumRaiderFan]

5 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Please provide Scripture to support that........

I already have.

Romans 10:9

C1, you are Church of Christ, correct?

[RETIREDFAN1]

32 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

I have a problem with a Church of Christ (Christian) telling a whole denomination (ie. Catholics) that they are not going to Heaven because they don't worship the right way.  You mean to tell me that your understanding & "translation" of the Bible is greater than a Catholic priest who has went to seminary & dedicated his whole life to Bible studies?    

This question is directed to Colmesneil?  

Matthew 7:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

[RETIREDFAN1]

7 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I already have.

Romans 10:9

C1, you are Church of Christ, correct?

So then, according to you, all one has to do to be saved is believe and confess???

[Whoa]

2 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Matthew 7:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Man, that sounds good!  I used to love listening to Jim Baker, Tammy, Bro. Copelend and others quote their Book.

I think it makes one sound more Christian like

[RETIREDFAN1]

12 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

 

C1, you are Church of Christ, correct?

I am  a Christian who follows the teachings of Christ and His Apostles which were laid out for us in the pages of the New Testament......I worship and work with a group of like minded Christians at Colmesneil church of Christ......

[Aces_Full]

5 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Matthew 7:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Your understanding of the Bible is not very good to put it nicely.  I challenge that priests who spend their entire lives dedicated to biblical studies have a must better understanding than you.  And this is your quote to refute that????  

[LumRaiderFan]

5 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

I am  a Christian who follows the teachings of Christ and His Apostles which were laid out for us in the pages of the New Testament......I worship and work with a group of like minded Christians at Colmesneil church of Christ......

So is it your belief that someone must be Saved and Baptized within the Church of Christ to go to Heaven?

[RETIREDFAN1]

8 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

Your understanding of the Bible is not very good to put it nicely.  I challenge that priests who spend their entire lives dedicated to biblical studies have a must better understanding than you.  And this is your quote to refute that????  

Judge them by their fruit.......I guess all the pedophille and homosexual priests were putting those years of study and understanding to use???? I notice that you give a lot of opinion, but you have yet to give any Scripture to back it up.......

[Aces_Full]

LOL...so we are judged by the actions of others now???  Like I said, you need to see where & how the Old Testament and New Testament were canonized to gain a better understanding of your own beliefs.  

[RETIREDFAN1]

5 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

So is it your belief that someone must be Saved and Baptized within the Church of Christ to go to Heaven?

Jesus said one MUST be baptized to be saved......

 

Mark 16:15-16English Standard Version (ESV)

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

the Holy Spirit backed that teaching up........Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Romans 6:1-11, I Peter 3:21........

 

there is no denomination called "Church of Christ "......one must be a part of the Church that Christ established, the one He died for, and the one that is His bride....one is added to that Church by God when one becomes a Christian in the way God Commanded in the New Testament.......so yes, one must be in what is called in Romans 16:16 the Church of Christ to be saved.......

 

Romans 12:4-5English Standard Version (ESV)

4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

 

 

 

[LumRaiderFan]

8 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Jesus said one MUST be baptized to be saved......

 

Mark 16:15-16English Standard Version (ESV)

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

the Holy Spirit backed that teaching up........Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Romans 6:1-11, I Peter 3:21........

 

there is no denomination called "Church of Christ "......one must be a part of the Church that Christ established, the one He died for, and the one that is His bride....one is added to that Church by God when one becomes a Christian in the way God Commanded in the New Testament.......so yes, one must be in what is called in Romans 16:16 the Church of Christ to be saved.......

 

Romans 12:4-5English Standard Version (ESV)

4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

 

 

 

Romans 10:9

⁹ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Nothing about Baptism requirements.

Wonder why it doesn't say whoever does not believe and get baptized will be condemned in Mark 16:16?

So answer the question...are Baptists, Methodists Saved or must they be Saved and Baptized in the Church of Christ...is that your belief.

 

[Aces_Full]

Exodus 4:24-26

 At a lodging place on the way 

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the Lord met him and 

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sought to put him to death. 25 Then 

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Zipporah took a 

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flint and cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’

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 feet with it and said, “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!” 26 So he let him alone. It was then that she said, “A bridegroom of blood,” because of the circumcision.

 

 

We can all copy & paste scripture Colmesneilfan.  Can you explain why God was about to kill Moses?  Or are you just going to copy and paste from another website like you have been doing?  

 

 

[RETIREDFAN1]

5 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Romans 10:9

⁹ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Nothing about Baptism requirements.

Wonder why it doesn't say whoever does not believe and get baptized will be condemned in Mark 16:16?

So answer the question...are Baptists, Methodists Saved or must they be Saved and Baptized in the Church of Christ...is that your belief.

 

Nothing about Grace in that passage, either.......so in your view, since belief and confession are all that's required, where does Grace come in?????

 

I answered the question.........no one is saved that DOES NOT DO WHAT GOD COMMANDED........they must be baptized to have their sins washed away (scripture in earlier posts) and they must live faithfully until death (revelation 2:10)......living faithfully means worshipping in the manner God showed us to worship.......the only people doing that gather together with like minded believers in congregations called churches of Christ........so no, baptists,Methodists, or any others in man made denominations are saved........THAT is taught clearly in The New Testament.......

[LumRaiderFan]

4 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

Nothing about Grace in that passage, either.......so in your view, since belief and confession are all that's required, where does Grace come in?????

 

I answered the question.........no one is saved that DOES NOT DO WHAT GOD COMMANDED........they must be baptized to have their sins washed away (scripture in earlier posts) and they must live faithfully until death (revelation 2:10)......living faithfully means worshipping in the manner God showed us to worship.......the only people doing that gather together with like minded believers in congregations called churches of Christ........so no, baptists,Methodists, or any others in man made denominations are saved........THAT is taught clearly in The New Testament.......

Nothing to be done about Grace...it's a gift...no works required.

What you're not getting is that if you are truly saved, the works and following of the Commandments will follow, but they are not a requirement to be saved...that is a free gift through Grace.

Your sins are washed away by the Blood of Christ...not water.  Baptism is a symbol of you dying to yourself and rising in Christ...doesn't save you.

I will ask again...do you believe, like many Church of Christs believe, that you must be Saved and Baptized within the Church of Christ to go to Heaven?

Simple question...yes or no.

I was actually told this so I need some clarification.

[RETIREDFAN1]

37 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

LOL...so we are judged by the actions of others now???  Like I said, you need to see where & how the Old Testament and New Testament were canonized to gain a better understanding of your own beliefs.  

We judge them by their fruits.....what they are studying obviously led some of them to see nothing wrong with homosexual behavior or pedophilia......the problem lies with their lack of understanding of Gods Word.......there is nothing in our modern Bible that the Holy Spirit doesn't want in there......there is nothing left out of the Bible that the Holy Spirit wants included.......I don't care what uninspired men have to say about it......

[RETIREDFAN1]

24 minutes ago, Aces_Full said:

Exodus 4:24-26

 At a lodging place on the way 

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the Lord met him and 

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sought to put him to death. 25 Then 

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Zipporah took a 

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flint and cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’

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 feet with it and said, “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!” 26 So he let him alone. It was then that she said, “A bridegroom of blood,” because of the circumcision.

 

 

We can all copy & paste scripture Colmesneilfan.  Can you explain why God was about to kill Moses?  Or are you just going to copy and paste from another website like you have been doing?  

 

 

I will answer you with God's own Words......

 

Isaiah 55:8-9English Standard Version (ESV)

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[LumRaiderFan]

5 minutes ago, Colmesneilfan1 said:

We judge them by their fruits.....what they are studying obviously led some of them to see nothing wrong with homosexual behavior or pedophilia......the problem lies with their lack of understanding of Gods Word.......there is nothing in our modern Bible that the Holy Spirit doesn't want in there......there is nothing left out of the Bible that the Holy Spirit wants included.......I don't care what uninspired men have to say about it......

There is if they are revisions based on the Westcott-Hort text...if you haven't heard of them, look it up.

Read Floyd Jones "Ripped from the Bible"

[RETIREDFAN1]

8 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Nothing to be done about Grace...it's a gift...no works required.

What you're not getting is that if you are truly saved, the works and following of the Commandments will follow, but they are not a requirement to be saved...that is a free gift through Grace.

Your sins are washed away by the Blood of Christ...not water.  Baptism is a symbol of you dying to yourself and rising in Christ...doesn't save you.

I will ask again...do you believe, like many Church of Christs believe, that you must be Saved and Baptized within the Church of Christ to go to Heaven?

Simple question...yes or no.

I was actually told this so I need some clarification.

How does one receive the free gift of Grace???? You ne must DO WHAT GOD SAID TO DO......Hebrews 11 and James 2 show us several examples of this......Noah was saved by Grace, Noah was saved by works......God told Noah what to do to be saved from the flood, and Noah DID what God told him to do.....Noah would not have been saved if his faith had not led him to obey God......and there are others in those chapters.......we are saved by Grace along with with faith and obedient works......your sins are washed away in the waters of baptism because that is the point your faith has led you to obedience......baptism is where you come into contact with the Blood of Christ and are cleansed......

 

Mark 16: 15-16....Acts 22:16.....

 

Colossians 2:8-15English Standard Version (ESV)

8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[

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] of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities[

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] and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

 

 

 

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Titus 3:4-7English Standard Version (ESV)

4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

So for the third time, you must be a member of The Church founded by Christ to be saved......no man made denomination fits that definition......many congregations with church of Christ on the front door don't fit that definition.....so just going to a church of Christ does not save you.....DOING WHAT GOD SAID TO DO is what saves you.......