Can Trump beat Clinton?

LumRaiderFan · March 24, 2016

3 hours ago, westend1 said:

No need to apologize. This board hasn't been on an "intellectual level" for several years.

I couldn't agree more!

PN-G bamatex · March 24, 2016

5 hours ago, Englebert said:

Went back and read it. And you're right. You are a condescending douche bag.

BRB, making that my Facebook cover photo.

5 hours ago, Englebert said:

In fairness to Bamatex, I didn't keep it on an intellectual level either. And for that, I will apologize to Bamatex and the board.

...but he cracked first.

You don't have to apologize to me. I've been called far worse things in my lifetime than "condescending." I've got thicker skin than that.

5 hours ago, Englebert said:

Went back and read it. And you're right. You are a condescending douche bag.

That's about the only thing you got right in that whole childish post. And by the way, you do know the data in the graph you posted is manipulated data. Anyone that has looked into anything NASA has posted in around the last 8-10 years knows they use manipulated data. Hell, they even admit it. And I would love to build a time machine to go back to the late 1800s/early 1900s to get a look at the temperature scales they used. You know, the ones that can measure temperature all over the world to a hundredth of a degree.

This is based on the Homewood report, isn't it?

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5 hours ago, Englebert said:

I do have a question for you Bamatex. You stated in previous posts that you saw or know about cross-burning, racial slurs spray painted on walls, death threats containing racial slurs, and some other stuff. My question is: Did you or anyone else report these things to the police, and better yet, to the media? All three of these things would have probably made the national news. And I'm sure you could have persuaded Al Sharpton to come down and investigate...uh, I mean give a speech. A guy I know that lives in Beaumont had his driveway spray painted with a racial slur about 10 years ago, and it made the national news. I'm sure cross burning and death threats should garner the media's attention. Did any of these things have a story printed/aired? Just curious.

Most of them were.

If you go back through the archives of The Crimson White, the UA student newspaper, you'll find the articles about them. There's also the welcometothemachine.info website, an online archive of every article ever published in any media publication (this ranges from the CW to CNN, Time, The New York Times, and Esquire) about the Machine, the campus secret society at UA responsible for most of the corruption and nefarious activity on campus.

For example, the incident I talked about with the three guys that broke into an office at the Ferguson Center, the UA student union, and wrote racial slurs all over the applications of black students for student government positions took place my freshman year. I had been on campus for less than two months. One of my closest friends on campus - not the one who got the death threat; he's two years younger than I am - was one of the black applicants whose applications were defamed in that way. His name is Ryan Campbell, and he's now, as a grad student, the Chairman of the Capstone Coalition, the first non-Machine campus political party at UA in three decades. I wrote that organization's charter.

I had applied for one of those positions as well. Those three students, Machine-backed SGA Senators and members of Old Row fraternities, also altered the applications of white non-Greek students to diminish their credentials. My application was one of the ones altered. It was all an attempt by the Machine to keep members of their then all-white Greek system in all the prominent positions on campus.

The University's Office of Student Conduct conducted an "investigation," if you can call it that. The three SGA senators and a few other officials were forced to resign, but never faced any other penalties. No criminal charges, no university reprimands, no community service, not even a slap on the wrist. The full report on that investigation was never released to the public; despite open protest from several prominent student legal groups around the country, including the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, that it wasn't applicable, the University cited the Federal Education Rights & Privacy Act in withholding the report from public consumption. I've included links below:

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You'll probably notice - and I'm sure you'll want to make an issue of this - that the reports don't line up perfectly with what I've been saying. In fact, they don't even mention racial slurs and only confirm that one application was altered. That's because the University swept in and took all the evidence before any CW reporters could see it. It didn't stop the word from getting out. Ryan Flamerich, one of the SGA officials mentioned in the first article that assisted with the investigation, is the guy who actually discovered it all. He was one of the few students at that time to run for SGA office against the Machine and win. He was two years older than I was, but we were in the same program through the Honors College. I spoke with him in the lab frequently, and he's still a good friend. He actually got a tip by text message from someone in the Machine that this was going down as it was happening, went to the Ferguson Center and caught the three Machine-backed senators in the act. He saw the racial slurs, and the applications in the trash. He made the mistake of contacting the University first and the media second. By the time he realized the mistake, it was too late. That was an important lesson I kept with me for the rest of my time at UA, and still keep in mind today. It served me well for the remainder of my time there.

The racial slurs on campus buildings, sidewalks and landmarks happened twice. Here are the links:

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Note: The slurs were chalked. I thought they were spray-painted. Guess that's one of those details you lose in memory.

Around the same time the slurs were posted, three black fraternity members visiting from another school were attacked in an all-white house. More on that here:

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The death threat wasn't reported, which is something I'm still mad about. That was in the spring semester of my junior year, the week before filings for campus elections were due. The friend that received it was so scared that he kept it to himself for months after it happened. I had been working with him to get ready for his SGA Senate campaign before he received it, and was shocked when he decided to back out - the kid was a born politico and it just didn't fit with how excited he'd been about running. It was totally out of place and I knew something was going on, but he wouldn't give more than the same explanation over and over again. "I just changed my mind." A few other friends and I kept trying to talk him back into running and he wouldn't budge. It wasn't until the following fall that he told me what really happened. I asked him if he still had the note, because I wanted to take it in right then and there. He told me he wadded it up and left it in the parking lot before leaving as quickly as he could. He's still at UA, and we still speak frequently. To this day, two years later, he refuses to run for anything, and doesn't like to talk about it. It's a shame. He had real potential.

The segregation in the sororities persisted until fall of my junior year, more than fifty years after George Wallace made his stand in the schoolhouse door. That was one of those incidents that made it all the way into Time. That one really isn't on the sorority members, it's on the alumni and the Machine itself. The alumni donate serious cash to all of the Greek organizations, to the University and, at least according to rumor (although I fully believe it), to the Machine itself. As a result, the houses, the administration and the Machine all do whatever the alumni say. For reasons I will never understand, the sorority alumni still go to the houses and participate in sorority events decades after graduating and getting out of Tuscaloosa. They like to play an active role in the application process. And, of course, they like to keep things exactly the way they were back in the day. This means keeping the sororities all white.

That year, there were about two dozen young black women who rushed all-white sororities. None of them got a bid. One of them was the granddaughter of the lone black member of the UA Board of Trustees. I've included links to the CW and Time articles about that below. The CW article starts off with a black woman who rushed Alpha Gam and didn't get a bid. Her name is Halle Lindsay, and I know her. Her boyfriend is Elliot Spillers, the outgoing UA SGA president who's the first person to run against and beat the Machine in that race since 1986. I advised his campaign. Halle went back to Alpha Gam after the administration ordered the sororities to do open rush, and is now a member. Another young black woman who rushed and didn't get a bid was a fellow Texan. Her name is Khortlan Patterson, and she's from Missouri City, near Houston. She was so disgusted after the scandal broke that she refused to participate in the open rush process the University ordered after the national media came in.

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That was an absolutely insane period of time on campus. Jesse Jackson came, and if I recall correctly, Al Sharpton did, too, but I can't quite remember anymore. CNN was on campus dressing up their fresh-out-of-college, newly hired reporters as frat guys to sneak them into frat parties for surprise interviews. Tensions were high, and arguments were breaking out in classrooms, dormitory hallways and dining areas. Rumors flew through the air about fights breaking out in the houses, and about the Machine cracking down hard on sorority members thinking about talking to the media (in some contexts, including this one, the Machine acts as an enforcement arm for its powerful alumni donors). For brief moments, you would have thought you'd stepped back into the '60s.

One of the more visible moments was the "Stand at the Schoolhouse Door," a protest organized by Halle and Khortlan alongside Caroline Bechtel and Yardena Wolf, two women who were members of Phi Mu and AOPi, respectively, that were disgusted with the process and that I still consider close, personal friends. Caroline stuck with Phi Mu after it was all over, and showed more grace, courage and strength than I think I could ever muster. Yardena was quite literally shunned by her sisters, and dropped her sorority in an attempt to get away from the social ostracism. I've included a link to a New York Times article about the protest below:

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Interestingly enough, that wasn't the only scandal getting national media attention. That same month, the Machine signed up several hundred Greek students who didn't have residency in Tuscaloosa to vote in local elections, and got two former Machine-backed SGA presidents elected to the Tuscaloosa city council and school board, respectively. The Greeks were bussed, some of them in limousines, from their houses to the polling stations, and then taken to one of two bars downtown where they were served free drinks. In the process, they ousted a highly respected school board incumbent named Kelly Horwitz, someone I know well, worked with and have the utmost respect for. Her husband, Paul, is on the faculty at UA's law school, and gave me pointers when I was still applying. That whole ordeal got UA a second New York Times article, which I've posted a link to below:

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When Elliot was running for SGA president, ATO, one of the few non-Machine fraternities on campus, took a defiant stance and became the only house on campus to back Elliot. They put a big banner on the front of the house, something every Machine house has done for every Machine candidate for years. The Machine responded by stealing the banner in the middle of the night.

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I had just laid down to go to bed around 2 AM when I received that surveillance video by iMessage from the ATO president, Connor Herfurth. I was, at that time, Director of Political Advocacy for The United Alabama Project, UA's first campus watchdog group which I had founded with four other students during the desegregation and school board scandals the year before. One of the many hats I wore in that role was that of election monitor. I was the only person Connor sent that video to, because he wasn't sure how to handle it. I wrote up a Facebook post to get it out to the public immediately, put it in an email to UAPD, OSC, the CW and WVUA, and advised Connor on the steps to take moving forward.

The video brought back memories of the campaign of Cleo Thomas, UA's first black SGA president, elected in 1976. Cleo's something of a mentor to non-Machine political players at UA. He's a former member of the Board of Trustees that's not afraid to use that weight against the administration when necessary. I've relied on his advice numerous times. When Cleo was elected, the Machine responded by burning a cross in the front yard of the KKG house, because KKG led a revolt among sororities against the Machine to get Cleo elected. There's a link to a PDF scan of the old CW article about that below:

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Halle ran for Homecoming Queen this year. The Machine ordered Alpha Gam not to support her, even though it was Alpha Gam's year to get the Machine's HQ nomination (they rotate their nominations among the sororities from year to year); instead, the Machine chose a white Phi Mu to run. The Machine made the mistake of delivering that order to Alpha Gam's executive officers in text message. My successors in UAP recovered screenshots of the orders, and sent them to the University, the CW, WVUA (the campus radio station) and a contact with HuffPo that has been a standing correspondent with us for some time, all at once. UAP also published a Facebook post with the screenshots attached, informing the public of all the steps it had taken, which was taken down the following day by Facebook for reasons which they have yet to disclose despite repeated inquiries both from UAP representatives and members of the media.

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The guy who runs UAP now is named Josh Shumate, another good friend I still speak with almost daily. When he got the screenshots from a source within Alpha Gam, he was so shocked he didn't know what to do. He called me, and I helped him craft the Facebook post and the disclosure emails. We knew HuffPo would run it. We were shocked when it ended up in Vogue. When it got published in Jezebel, arguably the most sorority-centric publication in the country, we were absolutely flabbergasted.

Patrick Fitzgerald, a dear friend who ran the most successful Senate campaigns against the Machine in UA history, ran for president this year. His girlfriend and one of his running mates, Alex Smith, made national news last year when she became the first Machine-backed SGA senator at UA to publicly renounce the Machine. The link's below:

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I've spent more time than any law school student should giving them pointers in phone conversations and text messages throughout this academic year, covering everything from how to deal with the national media to defending against Machine chicanery. Unfortunately, it wasn't quite enough. They, and four of the five other running mates that collectively constituted the first full non-Machine executive ticket in UA history, couldn't pull off a win the way Elliot did. The Machine traded cases of beer to fraternity members for votes, and free manicures to sorority members. UAP managed to get some evidence of it, but not as much as I would have hoped. But, I'm optimistic that it's enough for the media to take up yet again.

For four years, this consumed my life. It still does in some ways, even though I'm 780 miles removed. The irony of this post's timing isn't lost on me; I did a phone interview with a Bloomberg reporter working on a book about racism in fraternities around the country earlier this afternoon, and another one with a woman working on a documentary about all of UA's social and political problems about three weeks ago.

But there's something else that isn't lost on me. You see, there was a time when my posts looked almost exactly like yours. There was a time when I would have made some of the same points you made in this thread. There was a time when, like you, I strongly suspected Obama of race-baiting.

The reason? I didn't understand. I knew what racism was, and I wouldn't have argued that it didn't exist, but that was a time when I didn't get that it was something many Americans have to deal with on an almost daily basis. Back then, if racism existed, I wasn't seeing it, and wasn't afraid to talk and act like it. I developed a mentality out of that perspective. Now I've seen it. That mentality's changed. And I'm thankful that it has; in a way, I'm almost thankful that those things took place while I was on campus, because that mentality would still be the same if they hadn't. That's the other half of why I brought those experiences up in this conversation. I was hoping that maybe - just maybe - they would have had a similar sobering effect on you.

PN-G bamatex · March 24, 2016

3 hours ago, stevenash said:

Bamatex- Have been reading, with interest, all of your exchanges in this thread. I noticed that you mentioned how the President has chosen to address the racial issues facing this country and it appeared as though you felt it was a noble effort. Don't you believe it would be equally noble of him to be willing to acknowledge the issues we face with Radical Islamic Terrorism ( including being willing to acknowledge that that is precisely what it is). Both issues are problematic and both deserve the concern of the President.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Would I prefer that we just call terrorism terrorism and be done with it? Absolutely. And I think that kind of term-switching isn't productive, and just frustrates people.

But, I don't think it's culpable, if that's where you're going with this. While I may not agree with the decision, I get why a guy who grew up dealing with prejudice in his own life would try hard not to tie an evil action too closely around the neck of a religion of mostly innocent people.

Englebert · March 24, 2016

Thanks for the post and links. I was a little skeptical because the incidents you brought up were definitely newsworthy, national newsworthy, and I haven't heard a thing about them. Not that I try to keep up with everything that happens, but I sure thought I would have heard something on this.

stevenash · March 24, 2016

17 hours ago, PN-G bamatex said:

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Would I prefer that we just call terrorism terrorism and be done with it? Absolutely. And I think that kind of term-switching isn't productive, and just frustrates people.

But, I don't think it's culpable, if that's where you're going with this. While I may not agree with the decision, I get why a guy who grew up dealing with prejudice in his own life would try hard not to tie an evil action too closely around the neck of a religion of mostly innocent people.

Good points. Is it safe for me to assume that, since you get his situation ( a guy who grew up dealing with prejudice in his own life would try hard not to tie an evil action too closely around the neck of a religion of mostly innocent people) you also get the idea that stiffening gun control laws around the necks of mostly innocent people because of the evil action of a few is also unfair?

nappyroots · March 24, 2016

9 minutes ago, stevenash said:

Good points. Is it safe for me to assume that, since you get his situation ( a guy who grew up dealing with prejudice in his own life would try hard not to tie an evil action too closely around the neck of a religion of mostly innocent people) you also get the idea that stiffening gun control laws around the necks of mostly innocent people because of the evil action of a few is also unfair?

Obama has less than nine months left in office. you should be able to relax on your gun laws. in 2017 5yr olds may be free to carry guns, who knows. But obama doesn't have time to threaten gun rights or take them all away.

nappyroots · March 24, 2016

15 minutes ago, stevenash said:

Good points. Is it safe for me to assume that, since you get his situation ( a guy who grew up dealing with prejudice in his own life would try hard not to tie an evil action too closely around the neck of a religion of mostly innocent people) you also get the idea that stiffening gun control laws around the necks of mostly innocent people because of the evil action of a few is also unfair?

By the way Nash, who took away your right to carry at the setx state fair.

stevenash · March 24, 2016

Have no idea. Don't have a weapon and have never had one.

PN-G bamatex · March 25, 2016

5 hours ago, stevenash said:

Good points. Is it safe for me to assume that, since you get his situation ( a guy who grew up dealing with prejudice in his own life would try hard not to tie an evil action too closely around the neck of a religion of mostly innocent people) you also get the idea that stiffening gun control laws around the necks of mostly innocent people because of the evil action of a few is also unfair?

It's not just safe for you to assume it, I've made numerous pro-gun posts on this website in the past, and have a lifetime membership in the NRA.

That having been said, I get why there's another side on this issue too. It's easy for most of us, who live in small, conservative towns in Texas where everybody owns a gun and hardly anyone we know ever misuses one to accept the fact that the overwhelming majority of gun owners are perfectly safe, sane, law-abiding people. For people who live in urban neighborhoods with high crime like the streets of Chicago, it's a hard concept to grasp. The perception that the gun itself is inherently dangerous may be an erroneous one, but it's one that's reinforced to these people by the environment that surrounds them.

baddog · March 25, 2016

Remove the gun, you still have violent people. They will find another weapon or will be the only ones with guns. Who or what created the environment? That would be where to start. Maybe I'm wrong, but if evil people want to do someone in, they will find a weapon. I can't ever find myself blaming the gun.

back on topic, Trump can beat Hillary.

PN-G bamatex · March 25, 2016

14 minutes ago, baddog said:

Remove the gun, you still have violent people. They will find another weapon or will be the only ones with guns. Who or what created the environment? That would be where to start. Maybe I'm wrong, but if evil people want to do someone in, they will find a weapon. I can't ever find myself blaming the gun.

back on topic, Trump can beat Hillary.

As I said, the perception may be mistaken, but it nonetheless exists, and I get why it does.

As for how to change that perception, I don't think you start with who or what created the environment, and I don't think you can wholesale write off everyone who gets involved in organized crime in these neighborhoods as evil and leave it at that. A lot of them just get involved in the wrong crowd, a lot of them are attracted by the glamour of the culture that's cropped up around urban violence, and a lot of them are pulled in by the cash you can make in neighborhoods struggling with immense hardship where there aren't that many other economic opportunities, among other things.

If you want to address the perception of the gun, specifically, my thoughts are that you do gun safety courses in the schools. Honestly, I don't get why we don't do that already. In Texas, we have CHL instructors all over the place. It doesn't seem like it would take much to broaden their training and expand the privileges of a CHL instructor's certification so that they can teach basic gun safety to kids in a classroom. If these kids, who grow up with nothing but violent experiences with guns, suddenly have an opportunity to see guns in the hands of an average person like their parents who's responsible with a gun and is willing to teach them how to be responsible with one, you give them an experience that flies in the face of what they see on the streets, and start turning back the tide on that perception.

As for the other issues, it'll take some different approaches.

Hagar · March 25, 2016

On March 24, 2016 at 9:22 PM, LumRaiderFan said:

I couldn't agree more!

Couple of years? That's when I joined. And if the last few pages are an example of "intellectual level", I'm hosed. Never saw so many 4, 5, & 6 syllable words. Makes me wished I'd graduated from Vidor Jr Hi instead of joining Teddy R. charging up SJ Hill. I wore out my pocket dictionary looking up stuff. Silver? Long Rangers horse? Think I'll go back to reading "No Country for Old Men".

Hagar · March 25, 2016

Hey guys. My attempt at humor wasn't a condemnation (see, I learned a new word), of your post. I was actually very impressed. And if I learned nothing else, I know now that I don't want to get into verbal fisticuffs with any of you.

As I posted before, IMO the frustration we all feel with politics in general, and specifically the Republican Party, has all of us like a wolverine with a leg caught in a trap, ready to snap at anything. Personally, I hate to see posters that I like, and admire, having differences like this. To me (in my feeble mind) it's a microcosm of the Republican Party itself. My legs in a trap to, so I can only pray we'll find a way out.

Ok, I'll crawl down from my pulpit! One last thing, humor aside, that was, cumulatively, the best posting I've ever seen, and way out of my league, and I'm glad all of you are conservative

stevenash · March 26, 2016

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 10:19 PM, PN-G bamatex said:

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Would I prefer that we just call terrorism terrorism and be done with it? Absolutely. And I think that kind of term-switching isn't productive, and just frustrates people.

But, I don't think it's culpable, if that's where you're going with this. While I may not agree with the decision, I get why a guy who grew up dealing with prejudice in his own life would try hard not to tie an evil action too closely around the neck of a religion of mostly innocent people.

Speaking of culpable, I will ask you another question. The President addressed the American public and said that his new healthcare plan would reduce the premium for the average American family by $2500 annually. Do you believe he knew that was not the case when he made that statement? If he honestly and truly "believed" that was the case, then I would suggest to you that he ranks (and his advisors) amongst the most naïve/incompetent ever to hold office.

TxHoops · March 26, 2016

1 hour ago, stevenash said:

Speaking of culpable, I will ask you another question. The President addressed the American public and said that his new healthcare plan would reduce the premium for the average American family by $2500 annually. Do you believe he knew that was not the case when he made that statement? If he honestly and truly "believed" that was the case, then I would suggest to you that he ranks (and his advisors) amongst the most naïve/incompetent ever to hold office.

Sounds like the bill of goods that was sold to us in Texas a decade ago with Prop 12...

stevenash · March 26, 2016

It may well be but since you joined in, how about answering my question?

TxHoops · March 26, 2016

I guess I didn't directly. The point being that it is my opinion that most politicians have become beholden to the money which gets them elected/re-elected. For a great many, the purse string are held by big insurance. My point was very similar statements were made about health care if we could just stop these silly lawsuits. However, according to some of my friends who are doctors, despite being sued less, they pay as much or more in malpractice insurance premiums as they did before tort reform in this state. This country is continuously being sold a bill of goods by insurance companies and their puppets in politics.

Whether or not he believed it or was repeating what he was told by the so-called experts, I wouldn't call him any more naive or incompetent as the majority of those making these decisions for us on a daily basis. And the result is having a guy like Trump on the footsteps of the White House.

stevenash · March 26, 2016

From a business/economic perspective, I would be happy to take my chances with Trump vs the current Administration.

LumRaiderFan · March 27, 2016

12 hours ago, stevenash said:

Speaking of culpable, I will ask you another question. The President addressed the American public and said that his new healthcare plan would reduce the premium for the average American family by $2500 annually. Do you believe he knew that was not the case when he made that statement? If he honestly and truly "believed" that was the case, then I would suggest to you that he ranks (and his advisors) amongst the most naïve/incompetent ever to hold office.

I'll go ahead and answer for everyone...he knew this was a lie when he said it.

westend1 · March 27, 2016

21 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I'll go ahead and answer for everyone...he knew this was a lie when he said it.

Not really. He said savings could be "up to" $2500, which is different from the quote. That aside, he had an economic adviser who provided the numbers. That adviser says that the $2500 was not a savings on insurance premiums, it was total cost, which includes out of pocket and savings from preventative care. Now, I don't think anybody ever believed that premiums would go down with the additional coverage provided by ObamaCare, but his opponent thought it was a good idea. And, he was supposedly a good businessman.

LumRaiderFan · March 27, 2016

13 minutes ago, westend1 said:

Not really. He said savings could be "up to" $2500, which is different from the quote. That aside, he had an economic adviser who provided the numbers. That adviser says that the $2500 was not a savings on insurance premiums, it was total cost, which includes out of pocket and savings from preventative care. Now, I don't think anybody ever believed that premiums would go down with the additional coverage provided by ObamaCare, but his opponent thought it was a good idea. And, he was supposedly a good businessman.

Come one WE1, you know he knew this was a lie when he said it...but he also knew it would get votes.

As far as Romney goes, no doubt he is a good businessman, but he is also a big gov Republican that feels like gov is the answer to all problems.

westend1 · March 27, 2016

27 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Come one WE1, you know he knew this was a lie when he said it...but he also knew it would get votes.

As far as Romney goes, no doubt he is a good businessman, but he is also a big gov Republican that feels like gov is the answer to all problems.

So, who did you vote for? ObamnaCare or Romneycare?

LumRaiderFan · March 27, 2016

7 minutes ago, westend1 said:

So, who did you vote for? ObamnaCare or Romneycare?

LOL...I voted for Romneycare.

As a Republican, I knew he wouldn't make a run at national health care.

stevenash · March 27, 2016

This is the hidden content, please

nappyroots · March 28, 2016

On 3/27/2016 at 9:45 PM, LumRaiderFan said:

Come one WE1, you know he knew this was a lie when he said it...but he also knew it would get votes.

As far as Romney goes, no doubt he is a good businessman, but he is also a big gov Republican that feels like gov is the answer to all problems.

Romney was a good business man, he was good at taking over companys and helping himself and his other rich cronies make lots of money. while the working folks suffered job losses. Romney was a con man.

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