Kingwood Park 44 Nederland 41/Final

[CThoops]

41 minutes ago, Dick Vitale said:

OK to address this issue...There are certain people on this board that hide behind screen names and critique these coaches and call them over-rated and such, but let me say this, I think that's terrible. Andre Boutte, Todd Sutherland, James Gamble, Fred Williams have ALL experienced first round playoff losses at some point in their career...It happens..NO ONE that knows ANYTHING about basketball can say with a clear conscience that Brian English has not done a terrific job of turning that Nederland program around. They were a JOKE before he arrived, and that team was in the REGIONAL tournament a couple of years ago. I really hate when individuals get on here with agendas...Again guys who hide behind screen names, and TRY to critique in order to elevate themselves is just a pitiful shame. I just give credit where its due.  The guy has shown time and time again how good he is as a coach, but certain people cant ever get past themselves in order to recognize others...I wish EVERY poster's real name, resume and credentials could show up on here, so that the cowards would just back away....Just my two cents....

 

*Drops the mic and walks away...*

[TxHoops]

1 hour ago, Dick Vitale said:

OK to address this issue...There are certain people on this board that hide behind screen names and critique these coaches and call them over-rated and such, but let me say this, I think that's terrible. Andre Boutte, Todd Sutherland, James Gamble, Fred Williams have ALL experienced first round playoff losses at some point in their career...It happens..NO ONE that knows ANYTHING about basketball can say with a clear conscience that Brian English has not done a terrific job of turning that Nederland program around. They were a JOKE before he arrived, and that team was in the REGIONAL tournament a couple of years ago. I really hate when individuals get on here with agendas...Again guys who hide behind screen names, and TRY to critique in order to elevate themselves is just a pitiful shame. I just give credit where its due.  The guy has shown time and time again how good he is as a coach, but certain people cant ever get past themselves in order to recognize others...I wish EVERY poster's real name, resume and credentials could show up on here, so that the cowards would just back away....Just my two cents....

/thread 

[Dick Vitale]

2 hours ago, TxHoops said:

/thread 

What does THAT mean? LOL

[TxHoops]

22 minutes ago, Dick Vitale said:

What does THAT mean? LOL

End thread.

 

[Dick Vitale]

ohhhhh, ok I get it! LOL

[ozensfinest]

Not sure if DV was directing that post towards me or not but almost everyone knows who I am on this board so he couldn't have been. However, as far as English is concerned I go off facts and facts are the man has an average resume. No agenda against english I don't even know the man never met him just calling it how I see it.

[Honest Abe]

11 hours ago, ozensfinest said:

Not sure if DV was directing that post towards me or not but almost everyone knows who I am on this board so he couldn't have been. However, as far as English is concerned I go off facts and facts are the man has an average resume. No agenda against english I don't even know the man never met him just calling it how I see it.

I don't know this answer, so I'm asking you for a list of coaches (locally) who have taken over 'dead programs' and completely turned them around into a contender/competitor. Not just one year, but year after year. I'm sure there are a few, I just don't know the history of all of the teams in the area. Then, I would like you to create a list of coaches who have done it twice (at two different 'dormant programs'). 

[Honest Abe]

If you come back with 'he hasn't won a state title', I will reference the following names of people who never won a championship yet have great resumes:

Carl Malone, Gary Peyton, Pistol Pete, Bernard King, John Stockton, Sir Charles Barkley, Alex English, Shawn Kemp, Chris Mullin, Vince Carter, Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins, TMac, Geroge Gervin, Steve Nash (the original), AI, Patrick Ewing, and plenty more  

 

[CThoops]

1 hour ago, Honest Abe said:

I don't know this answer, so I'm asking you for a list of coaches (locally) who have taken over 'dead programs' and completely turned them around into a contender/competitor. Not just one year, but year after year. I'm sure there are a few, I just don't know the history of all of the teams in the area. Then, I would like you to create a list of coaches who have done it twice (at two different 'dormant programs'). 

I thought DickyV shut this thread down with his post, but this is a nice after-credit scene! I don't know how someone responds negative towards this right here, but I'm sure OF will work some magic 

[Dick Vitale]

13 hours ago, ozensfinest said:

Not sure if DV was directing that post towards me or not but almost everyone knows who I am on this board so he couldn't have been. However, as far as English is concerned I go off facts and facts are the man has an average resume. No agenda against english I don't even know the man never met him just calling it how I see it.

The only thing he hasn't done is win the region and gotten to the State Tournament. That's not easy to do, but his resume is FAR from average considering what he has done at two schools NOT known for anything basketball...Come on, man...I'm all about winning championships, but I DO know how difficult that can be for ANY coach to do. TIMING and LUCK. Both play BIG parts in addition to running a quality program in getting to that next level.  I think Coach Lee from Central is a good man, and he made it to State with Central in his last year, but I don't think he is a better coach than English. Bob Hughes from Fort Worth Dunbar...Remember him? It took him 39 YEARS to win a state title, when he won his first one in 1993 at a POWERHOUSE school! THIRTY NINE YEARS!  And he is considered one of the greatest that Texas has ever seen.... Bill Krueger from Clear Lake...Texas winningest coach...remember him? It took him 35 YEARS to win ONE state title, in 1989...My point is, there is NO WAY that you can measure this guy's accomplishments by state tourney trips. NO WAY. Again if you know any active coach in SE Texas with a better body of work (not named Sutherland) I want to see it.  BODY OF WORK, meaning went to the playoffs at VIDOR, and advancing to the regional tournament at NEDERLAND. Just think about that.

[BLUEDOVE3]

23 hours ago, Dick Vitale said:

OK to address this issue...There are certain people on this board that hide behind screen names and critique these coaches and call them over-rated and such, but let me say this, I think that's terrible. Andre Boutte, Todd Sutherland, James Gamble, Fred Williams have ALL experienced first round playoff losses at some point in their career...It happens..NO ONE that knows ANYTHING about basketball can say with a clear conscience that Brian English has not done a terrific job of turning that Nederland program around. They were a JOKE before he arrived, and that team was in the REGIONAL tournament a couple of years ago. I really hate when individuals get on here with agendas...Again guys who hide behind screen names, and TRY to critique in order to elevate themselves is just a pitiful shame. I just give credit where its due.  The guy has shown time and time again how good he is as a coach, but certain people cant ever get past themselves in order to recognize others...I wish EVERY poster's real name, resume and credentials could show up on here, so that the cowards would just back away....Just my two cents....

I was worried about losing my street cred agreeing with Dickie if I endorsed anything with Nederland's brand. But Dickie is right, you gotta give English his props.

[ozensfinest]

Lol since when was Nederland a contender? What are they a contender for? English made it to regionals ONCE....he had ONE good year at Vidor & like two or three at Nederland y'all call taking Nederland from terrible to average a turnaround? Ok if that's the case we can say Suggs have turned Ozen football program cause he made the playoffs his first two years there lmaooooo come on man cut it out y'all giving props to a guy far too early when he's accomplished so little please tell me how English has a better body of work than Saveat, Sigler, Travis etc 

[Dick Vitale]

23 minutes ago, ozensfinest said:

Lol since when was Nederland a contender? What are they a contender for? English made it to regionals ONCE....he had ONE good year at Vidor & like two or three at Nederland y'all call taking Nederland from terrible to average a turnaround? Ok if that's the case we can say Suggs have turned Ozen football program cause he made the playoffs his first two years there lmaooooo come on man cut it out y'all giving props to a guy far too early when he's accomplished so little please tell me how English has a better body of work than Saveat, Sigler, Travis etc 

I said before that Saveat has done a FANTASTIC job at Ozen.  He held that program to a standard and that's not easy either. Travis Williams did a great job in Silsbee, and in my opinion was not a good fit for the Memorial program, but did a good job there nonetheless.  Sigler is one of my favorite people in the area, and has done solid at Silsbee during both stints there.  Now let me ask you this....WHAT IF English had ONE of those Silsbee teams?  Considering what he did with virtually nothing, do you think he could have done AT LEAST the same at those other places? Its a common sense answer, really.  OF perhaps you're not old enough to know the history of both of those schools before he got there, but they were pretty darn bad.  Ask the Lincoln old heads about what THEY think about NEDERLAND going to the regional tourney, even once....or making the playoffs, for that matter. Its a big deal, trust me.

So, OF, let me ask you this....Was Bob Hughes resume just average prior to him winning his first title in 1993? Was Clear Lake's Bill Krueger's resume just average before he won it in 1989?

[BIG SHOW]

English has sent 2 teams to the regional tournament.  

[BIG SHOW]

Just now, BIG SHOW said:

English has sent 2 teams to the regional tournament.  

2 Nederland teams that is.

[Crawford72]

He has some good talent coming up to work with also

[BLUEDOVE3]

1 hour ago, Crawford72 said:

He has some good talent coming up to work with also

Better than this 2016 team? The 2016 team was Nederland's hope since they were in the 8th grade. 

[Dick Vitale]

6 minutes ago, BLUEDOVE3 said:

Better than this 2016 team? The 2016 team was Nederland's hope since they were in the 8th grade. 

Honestly, it may get a bit rougher talent wise after this year. There is a Port Arthur kid (best 8th grader in the area) that was considering Nederland, but if some changes occur in Beaumont, (as I hear it's almost a certainty that it will) I am 100% certain that the kid will end up in BISD...Totally legal. (father lives there)

[Crawford72]

I believe the only game they lost in 7th and 8th was to Vincent MS. Had a good 9th grade year. Beat Ozen and lost by quite a bit to Central. 3 really skilled players and a lot of good role players.

I know a lot can change in HS. This group of Nederland seniors was the only team to beat the HF seniors in MS.

My son is a freshman at HF and believe me there was barely a basketball program to speak of this year.

[ozensfinest]

1 hour ago, Dick Vitale said:

I said before that Saveat has done a FANTASTIC job at Ozen.  He held that program to a standard and that's not easy either. Travis Williams did a great job in Silsbee, and in my opinion was not a good fit for the Memorial program, but did a good job there nonetheless.  Sigler is one of my favorite people in the area, and has done solid at Silsbee during both stints there.  Now let me ask you this....WHAT IF English had ONE of those Silsbee teams?  Considering what he did with virtually nothing, do you think he could have done AT LEAST the same at those other places? Its a common sense answer, really.  OF perhaps you're not old enough to know the history of both of those schools before he got there, but they were pretty darn bad.  Ask the Lincoln old heads about what THEY think about NEDERLAND going to the regional tourney, even once....or making the playoffs, for that matter. Its a big deal, trust me.

So, OF, let me ask you this....Was Bob Hughes resume just average prior to him winning his first title in 1993? Was Clear Lake's Bill Krueger's resume just average before he won it in 1989?

Man I don't do "IF's"...I'm going off what he has done. Which has been avg work whether you wanna agree with it or not Ned is avg basketball program so was vidor, and that's being nice honestly. They've finished 3rd in a weak 22-5A district the past 3 years. Some big turn around lol I'm old enough to know the history of Ned & Vidor English coached at both schools while I was in school and both schools were terrible lol you asked for coaches with better body's of work than English and I named 3 for you. English must've offered you a job Walt cause you're tripping...whether you're a fan of English or not you can't ignore the facts what he has done at Vidor & Ned has been avg. Tell him go get the Westbrook job this spring so we can stop the no talent excuse. It's plenty in Beaumont. Let's see what he does there simple.

[Honest Abe]

2 hours ago, BIG SHOW said:

English has sent 2 teams to the regional tournament.  

Come on! Do you really expect OZF to know that information? Of course not!! He can never provide facts, merely asinine opinions. Not that you deserve to know the truth, but Here are some facts for you OZF:

Ned has won at least 20 games for the past 7 seasons (last 20 win season was in 1987)  

Won 11 playoff games and lost 7 during that span. (Previous Ned win a playoff game was 1957).

2 regional tourney appearances (2011, 2014).

3 District Championships (last district championship was??? 1957???) 

Vidor:

(became an ISD in 1949):

Thr following information from my Vidor source (Clint). 

0 winning basketball seasons before 2000 (English's first year at Vidor).

He coached there from 2000-2006.

5 Winning seasons from 2002-2006 (0 Winning seasons before 2002, 0 since 2006). 

-Playoffs 04, 05, & 06 (all 20 win seasons)

-Oh ya, Beat ozen 3 times in 04.

 

BTW-

Im still waiting on your list of coaches who have turned dormant programs into contenders  and another list of the coaches who have done it twice  

 

[ozensfinest]

13 minutes ago, Honest Abe said:

Come on! Do you really expect OZF to know that information? Of course not!! He can never provide facts, merely asinine opinions. Not that you deserve to know the truth, but Here are some facts for you OZF:

Ned has won at least 20 games for the past 7 seasons (last 20 win season was in 1987)  

Won 11 playoff games and lost 7 during that span. (Previous Ned win a playoff game was 1957).

2 regional tourney appearances (2011, 2014).

3 District Championships (last district championship was??? 1957???) 

Vidor:

(became an ISD in 1949):

Thr following information from my Vidor source (Clint). 

0 winning basketball seasons before 2000 (English's first year at Vidor).

He coached there from 2000-2006.

5 Winning seasons from 2002-2006 (0 Winning seasons before 2002, 0 since 2006). 

-Playoffs 04, 05, & 06 (all 20 win seasons)

-Oh ya, Beat ozen 3 times in 04.

 

BTW-

Im still waiting on your list of coaches who have turned dormant programs into contenders  and another list of the coaches who have done it twice  

 

20 wins in a season not hard in this area or district try again and I forgot about the 2011 regional appearance I believe Ozen beat yall in regionals that year right? And by the facts you've just provided only states my case...he turned a bad program into an avg program, am I missing something here?

[Honest Abe]

39 minutes ago, ozensfinest said:

Man I don't do "IF's"...I'm going off what he has done. Which has been avg work whether you wanna agree with it or not Ned is avg basketball program so was vidor, and that's being nice honestly. They've finished 3rd in a weak 22-5A district the past 3 years. Some big turn around lol I'm old enough to know the history of Ned & Vidor English coached at both schools while I was in school and both schools were terrible lol you asked for coaches with better body's of work than English and I named 3 for you. English must've offered you a job Walt cause you're tripping...whether you're a fan of English or not you can't ignore the facts what he has done at Vidor & Ned has been avg. Tell him go get the Westbrook job this spring so we can stop the no talent excuse. It's plenty in Beaumont. Let's see what he does there simple.

Avg district 22-5A. Hahahahahahaha!

#1 and #2 teams in the state in 22-5A, and the district is weak??!! Do you know how stupid you sound?? Oh well, it's your reputation on the line. 

[Honest Abe]

15 minutes ago, ozensfinest said:

20 wins in a season not hard in this area or district try again and I forgot about the 2011 regional appearance I believe Ozen beat yall in regionals that year right? And by the facts you've just provided only states my case...he turned a bad program into an avg program, am I missing something here?

Yes. Name one other coach who has turned two programs completely around to winning 20+ games/yr. I'll check back in Monday to give yourself plenty of time to research (sarcasm)  

Winning 20 games/year isn't considered average in anyone's book except yours. 

 

 

[ozensfinest]

5 minutes ago, Honest Abe said:

Yes. Name one other coach who has turned two programs completely around to winning 20+ games/yr. I'll check back in Monday to give yourself plenty of time to research (sarcasm)  

Winning 20 games/year isn't considered average in anyone's book except yours. 

 

 

Lol name 5 good teams Ned beat this year I'll wait...