Ozen Teacher Arrested

[baddog]

Maybe she was raised in a bad environment. 

[PAMFAM10]

If this situation was flipped and the student smack the teacher upside the head would we be debating jail time? 

[tvc184]

4 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

If this situation was flipped and the student smack the teacher upside the head would we be debating jail time? 

 No, I would not be debating it.  There is no debate and the answer should be the same. She should not be in jail. 

[PAMFAM10]

After watching, I know I don't know the law as good as TVC or txhoops but how is. This not assault. Can I go around doing this and expect nothing to happen to me.

[tvc184]

3 hours ago, BMTSoulja1 said:

So assault isn't breaking a law?  If U see you and just start punching on you causing bruising and bleeding, maybe a bloodied nose, is that not against the law?  That lady went for that kid's head.  It's wrong in all aspects...  And in the streets, if someone was just attacked like that, I guarantee you they would've been arrested...matter of fact, I'm willing to bet that if the teacher was some 6'6" man teacher and the student was small and petite girl, it would've been 'against the law' . 

Yes, assault is against the law. Apparently you missed the part that I posted about the law on teachers. Interestingly, you noted in two posts above that you thought corporal punishment was okay. Did you not know that if you cause a person to feel any pain, it can be up to a year in jail so your acceptance of corporal punishment is a crime? Hmmmm....... 

Did you know that any time your doctor gives you a shot, it is an assault that carries up to a year in jail? For that matter, any time a parent spanks his own child it is a crime by what is listed on the books. If that child is under 14, it is up to 10 years in prison. Hmmm......

Did you know that every time a football player gets tackled, the person committing the tackle likely committed an assault and can get up to a year in the county jail?

Did you know that every single time that a police officer places a person in handcuffs, it is a crime punishable by up to a year in jail or up to 2 years if it is a person under 17?

 Did you know that if a person is breaking into your home at night and you have to shoot and kill him in self defense, it is murder?

 You see that there are lots of laws on the books and by the letter of the law many or all of us break them from time to time. Why aren't we prosecuted? There are also many defenses built into the law (called a defense to prosecution or an affirmative defense to prosecution) like if it is your doctor and you consented to the conduct, a parent giving discipline, a teacher giving discipline, you voluntarily participated in an event like a football game, a person acting in self defense, etc.  Again, I listed that above and actually quoted the law.... which apparently you missed or ignore because you didn't like it.

 I accept that fact that you have very little knowledge of laws. I have almost no knowledge of a chemical engineer and I have to accept that in that area, I will have almost no valid input. I am sure however that you be more than willing to give me some finer points on the law and the enforcement thereof. 

[BMTSoulja1]

9 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

Yes, assault is against the law. Apparently you missed the part that I posted about the law on teachers. Interestingly, you noted in two posts above that you thought corporal punishment was okay. Did you not know that if you cause a person to feel any pain, it can be up to a year in jail so your acceptance of corporal punishment is a crime? Hmmmm....... 

Did you know that any time your doctor gives you a shot, it is an assault that carries up to a year in jail? For that matter, any time a parent spanks his own child it is a crime by what is listed on the books. If that child is under 14, it is up to 10 years in prison. Hmmm......

Did you know that every time a football player gets tackled, the person committing the tackle likely committed an assault and can get up to a year in the county jail?

Did you know that every single time that a police officer places a person in handcuffs, it is a crime punishable by up to a year in jail or up to 2 years if it is a person under 17?

 Did you know that if a person is breaking into your home at night and you have to shoot and kill him in self defense, it is murder?

 You see that there are lots of laws on the books and by the letter of the law many or all of us break them from time to time. Why aren't we prosecuted? There are also many defenses built into the law (called a defense to prosecution or an affirmative defense to prosecution) like if it is your doctor and you consented to the conduct, a parent giving discipline, a teacher giving discipline, you voluntarily participated in an event like a football game, a person acting in self defense, etc.  Again, I listed that above and actually quoted the law.... which apparently you missed or ignore because you didn't like it.

 I accept that fact that you have very little knowledge of laws. I have almost no knowledge of a chemical engineer and I have to accept that in that area, I will have almost no valid input. I am sure however that you be more than willing to give me some finer points on the law and the enforcement thereof. 

Funny enough, Doctors aren't taken to jail because they have shots.  Teachers aren't dragged off to jail for paddling.  But you better believe that this loose cannon was dragged off to jail.  Obviously, it was deemed as assault, contrary to the gibberish that you posted above.  I mean, what do the Beaumont PD knows?  They wouldn't dare sent an innocent poor old lady to jail without a valid reason...

I'm just glad that you wasn't the one making the decision for this lady's fate.  

BTW, what you said about if it were your child were in the same situation.  You said you'd have no problem with it.  I'm calling it straight BS.  For whatever that's worth...

[Hagar]

No defense for the teacher.  Totally out of line.  What's ironic (again from an old timer), in my day had I had a choice of what she did here, or getting whacks from our 6'5" Principal, she could have slapped the back of my head a while.  Even worse would be what would have happened at home when my parents found out what I did to incur that teachers wrath.  

I'm going to take this opportunity to relate again a news story (60 Min I think) I saw quite a few years back.  It was about schools on Military bases outperforming public schools.  The conclusion/reason they came to was the stricter discipline at the Military schools.   JMO but I think if we could return discipline to the classrooms, all the children would benefit and you'd never see an unacceptable rating at any of our schools.   

Unfortunately, to many parents, PC Police, and society, isn't going to go for it. 

[tvc184]

37 minutes ago, BMTSoulja1 said:

Funny enough, Doctors aren't taken to jail because they have shots.  Teachers aren't dragged off to jail for paddling.  But you better believe that this loose cannon was dragged off to jail.  Obviously, it was deemed as assault, contrary to the gibberish that you posted above.  I mean, what do the Beaumont PD knows?  They wouldn't dare sent an innocent poor old lady to jail without a valid reason...

I'm just glad that you wasn't the one making the decision for this lady's fate.  

BTW, what you said about if it were your child were in the same situation.  You said you'd have no problem with it.  I'm calling it straight BS.  For whatever that's worth...

 All that I posted was the law. If you think it is gibberish, fine. Please contact your legislator. 

 I told you while she was arrested. I don't think it was Beaumont PD  and likely the school district police. 

 She might be a loose cannon and she might need to be terminated. She almost certainly  broke policy. None of those crimes.  Your Internet and Facebook law degrees are now revoked. 

[BMTSoulja1]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

 All that I posted was the law. If you think it is gibberish, fine. Please contact your legislator. 

 I told you while she was arrested. I don't think it was Beaumont PD  and likely the school district police. 

 She might be a loose cannon and she might need to be terminated. She almost certainly  broke policy. None of those crimes.  Your Internet and Facebook law degrees are now revoked. 

Lmbo!  Penalties accepted.  Whoa is me.  Lol

[Hagar]

Ran across this and it might help explain (not justify) why the teacher did what she did.  Had this young man been subjected to the pain and humiliation of a piece of wood slapped across his behind when he first started being disruptive, it might have straighten him out.   Suspension?   Lol, that's right in his wheelhouse.   We expect teachers to tolerate rude, and verbally offensive disruptive behavior.  I couldn't!  They must be Saints.  

I

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[Bigdog]

Arrest was probably political, its national news now.

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[tvc184]

4 hours ago, bigdog said:

Arrest was probably political, its national news now.

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Only using your posts to state a point......

Arrests by the police are only accusations. A large percentage of lawful arrests are refused for prosecution by the prosecuting attorney's office (District Attorney, US Attorney, City Attorney). That might be from prosecutorial discretion, lack of evidence, justification of the action under the law. 

For defenses to prosecution to be used, there had to be a technical violation of the law to begin with. For example if a person breaks into your home at night and tries to kill your family and you shoot and kill the intruder, that is Murder under Texas law. Murder says... "A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual". That is it. There is not even a section under Chapter 19 Homicide that says you can use self defense. That part of the Penal Code comes in Chapter 9 Justification Excluding Criminal Responsibility. That chapter (and in other parts of the Penal Code) it says that certain otherwise criminal conduct can be justified. An example as with the person breaking into your home, Murder can be justified under 9.32 and 9.42 where it says that deadly force is justified to stop a various assaults, robberies, burglaries, etc. 

So by law, yes you committed Murder and can lawfully be arrested. For  a lawful arrest the police only need probable cause and in this example if you took the life of another person, it is Murder. The DA however would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not have a justification for the killing. The arrest itself if made would not mean that you are guilty and only that a police officer was making a judgment call that probable cause existed.

In the case of a teacher, the came Chapter 9 on Justification says, a teacher can use the force that the teacher believes is necessary to maintain discipline. Did she hit the student? Sure. By law it was Assault or Injury To a Child. Also by the law (just as self defense from a person breaking into your home), there is a law that says such force is criminally justified. It might break school rules, it might seem unnecessary and it might be offensive to some. Those are not criminal laws. 

Were officers legally correct in making such an arrest? Sure, there was probable cause that she hit a person. By law that is all that is needed. An officer does not need to prove a crime happened, if a conviction would likely happen or if the DA would even take charges. The officer only needs to be lawfully concerned with the letter of the law. Merely making such an arrest however does not mean that a crime happened at all or that a prosecution will happen. Like I said above, an arrest is only an accusation by a single officer (unless under a warrant/indictment) and many such arrests are refused by the prosecuting attorneys. 

[5GallonBucket]

'

[5GallonBucket]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 3:29 PM, baddog said:

Maybe she was raised in a bad environment. 

worked in one more likely

[5GallonBucket]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 6:20 PM, REBgp said:

No defense for the teacher.  Totally out of line.  What's ironic (again from an old timer), in my day had I had a choice of what she did here, or getting whacks from our 6'5" Principal, she could have slapped the back of my head a while.  Even worse would be what would have happened at home when my parents found out what I did to incur that teachers wrath.  

I'm going to take this opportunity to relate again a news story (60 Min I think) I saw quite a few years back.  It was about schools on Military bases outperforming public schools.  The conclusion/reason they came to was the stricter discipline at the Military schools.   JMO but I think if we could return discipline to the classrooms, all the children would benefit and you'd never see an unacceptable rating at any of our schools.   

Unfortunately, to many parents, PC Police, and society, isn't going to go for it. 

A lot of the Parents need discipline themselves.

[Hagar]

46 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

A lot of the Parents need discipline themselves.

+1,000

[Hagar]

2 hours ago, tvc184 said:

Only using your posts to state a point......

Arrests by the police are only accusations. A large percentage of lawful arrests are refused for prosecution by the prosecuting attorney's office (District Attorney, US Attorney, City Attorney). That might be from prosecutorial discretion, lack of evidence, justification of the action under the law. 

For defenses to prosecution to be used, there had to be a technical violation of the law to begin with. For example if a person breaks into your home at night and tries to kill your family and you shoot and kill the intruder, that is Murder under Texas law. Murder says... "A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual". That is it. There is not even a section under Chapter 19 Homicide that says you can use self defense. That part of the Penal Code comes in Chapter 9 Justification Excluding Criminal Responsibility. That chapter (and in other parts of the Penal Code) it says that certain otherwise criminal conduct can be justified. An example as with the person breaking into your home, Murder can be justified under 9.32 and 9.42 where it says that deadly force is justified to stop a various assaults, robberies, burglaries, etc. 

So by law, yes you committed Murder and can lawfully be arrested. For  a lawful arrest the police only need probable cause and in this example if you took the life of another person, it is Murder. The DA however would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not have a justification for the killing. The arrest itself if made would not mean that you are guilty and only that a police officer was making a judgment call that probable cause existed.

In the case of a teacher, the came Chapter 9 on Justification says, a teacher can use the force that the teacher believes is necessary to maintain discipline. Did she hit the student? Sure. By law it was Assault or Injury To a Child. Also by the law (just as self defense from a person breaking into your home), there is a law that says such force is criminally justified. It might break school rules, it might seem unnecessary and it might be offensive to some. Those are not criminal laws. 

Were officers legally correct in making such an arrest? Sure, there was probable cause that she hit a person. By law that is all that is needed. An officer does not need to prove a crime happened, if a conviction would likely happen or if the DA would even take charges. The officer only needs to be lawfully concerned with the letter of the law. Merely making such an arrest however does not mean that a crime happened at all or that a prosecution will happen. Like I said above, an arrest is only an accusation by a single officer (unless under a warrant/indictment) and many such arrests are refused by the prosecuting attorneys. 

Basically, if I understand the technical parts, each officer when being placed in a situation, has to make a decision, arrest or not arrest.   And since, I'd guess, very few know All The chapters & verses of the law, the determination of prosecution, or not, is decided "up the chain of command".   Makes since to me if I got right. 

[baddog]

On 4/9/2016 at 5:09 PM, PAMFAM10 said:

If this situation was flipped and the student smack the teacher upside the head would we be debating jail time? 

We could flip it yet another way, but you wouldn't like the way it turns out.

[Peppermint Patty]

Schools are in desperate need of substitute teachers. I challenge you to sign up and see what really takes place in our schools. You would be shocked and amazed.

If you don't want to do that, just "creep" on some social media. You will see and hear things that will embarrass you.

No matter what, it takes an unending amount of restraint. 

 

[PAMFAM10]

I graduated high school in 2010 so I think I'm pretty up todate on the culture of inner cities schools. My questions has always been can I go around hitting people like she did and not expect to be arrested. And if the student would have hit her he would of been arrested and nobody would be saying he shouldn't have been he would of been a punk a thug.(regardless of race not making this a race thing so please don't freak out). 

[Peppermint Patty]

2 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

I graduated high school in 2010 so I think I'm pretty up todate on the culture of inner cities schools. My questions has always been can I go around hitting people like she did and not expect to be arrested. And if the student would have hit her he would of been arrested and nobody would be saying he shouldn't have been he would of been a punk a thug.(regardless of race not making this a race thing so please don't freak out). 

I'm not referring to inner city schools. 2010 was a long time ago. I can guarantee you things have changed.

The teacher has been fired and will be punished. You just can't put your hands on a student (unless you are defending yourself).

I'm just saying I know why she did it.

[tvc184]

6 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said:

I graduated high school in 2010 so I think I'm pretty up todate on the culture of inner cities schools. My questions has always been can I go around hitting people like she did and not expect to be arrested. And if the student would have hit her he would of been arrested and nobody would be saying he shouldn't have been he would of been a punk a thug.(regardless of race not making this a race thing so please don't freak out). 

The student should then get arrested but not a teacher. In the same chapter of Texas law it says that parents can spank a child. It even applies to a person in the place of a parent such as a babysitter or grandparent. That is written into the law exactly like it is for teachers. 

 

 

If a child hits back, there is no such authority under the law. That would be assault. 

 

It is not a hard concept, parents and teachers can use force to discipline, child or students but they cannot retaliate. I have witnessed a parent spank a child and when the child struck the parent back, the child was arrested and convicted in juvenile court. 

 

I understand that people are making statements on what they wish but wishing doesn't always make something legal or illegal. 

[baddog]

Nice post tvc.

Funny how this video has the world looking at Beaumont Texas thanks to social media and news media, yet I have not heard one word from the parents of this kid.

[PAMFAM10]

I never had a real issue with the situation nor the fact the teacher didn't get arrested. I just wanted to know how it wasn't considered assault under the law. Which TVC explained. I had no idea A teacher was giving that right.

[Hagar]

2 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said:

I never had a real issue with the situation nor the fact the teacher didn't get arrested. I just wanted to know how it wasn't considered assault under the law. Which TVC explained. I had no idea A teacher was giving that right.

Nor did I PF10.   I wasn't even aware a parent could still legally spank their child.  Wore out several belts on my son lol.  Had to laugh when folks would say, you sure are lucky to have such a well mannered children.  Yes, lucky.  They come right out of the womb saying yessir, yes mam, and thank you haha.  IMO most children, boys especially, need spankings to learn life's lessons, but Not just spankings, you need to make sure your child knows you love him and/or her.  Always told'em I loved them, and hugged them.   Sure wasn't a perfect a Dad, but I'm proud of how they turned out.   Now, my G'kids, they're perfect (and you'd have to be a grandparent to know what I mean ).   And infinitely smarter than their parents LOL.