Central Talent vs. Central Wins

[oldschool2]

I could care less.  But a question came up in another thread that I was curious about.  The question didn't belong in that thread...so I'll put the question here.  Here's an interesting quote I got from it:

"Just so you know the number of kids that got the opportunity to play ball at the next level since Foreman has been there is 2013 team - 12, 2014 - 13 and 2015 -9."

That's 34 kids...with 2 more committing to a D1 school already recently.  So...why isn't this obvious talent converting to wins?  Specifically, playoff wins.

 

(Just keeping good on my reputation)

[Tyler Dixson]

A lot of it has to do either foreman being great at getting looks for his kids. They all have next level talent but probably don't have the understanding of the game that college coaches think they can teach them. 

[STYMIE]

Most schools don't have that many go in 5 -10 years.  

[setxguru]

My question is just what it was on the other thread, let's go WB wins vs WB talent also PA wins vs PA talent? The three years Foreman has been at Central his overall record has been better than both of these schools and they both have signed as many or more kids. So I guess I'm just wondering why these two coaches and schools are being bashed and questioned the same way. Especially PA? My god they are 6-14 over the past two seasons. 

[outanup]

Way more numbers in PAM and Brooks districts.......

 

[gohornets23]

It's a problem of talent gap, yes there are 9-12 kids on the team that will play at the next level (most of those are D3 which is really more like high school 2.0) but the kids that are NOT going to play at the next level are really not very good at all

as opposed to a team like Nederland, where maybe 1 or 2 guys will play in college, but all 22 of the guys who start are pretty solid football players, it makes a big difference. Those central teams have had plenty of holes

[oldschool2]

9 minutes ago, gohornets23 said:

It's a problem of talent gap, yes there are 9-12 kids on the team that will play at the next level (most of those are D3 which is really more like high school 2.0) but the kids that are NOT going to play at the next level are really not very good at all

as opposed to a team like Nederland, where maybe 1 or 2 guys will play in college, but all 22 of the guys who start are pretty solid football players, it makes a big difference. Those central teams have had plenty of holes

 

I find it funny that so many people on this site believe that lower levels of NCAA are so bad.  Lower levels of college still have kids that are really good.  They're doing everything in their power to recruit the best players possible just like the "big boys".  College teams beat schools in a higher division every single year.  They may not be beating the Alabamas of the world....but 98%+ of the kids on just about any high school team can't go play at a vast majority of D3 schools in the country.  I didn't say be on the team..I said play.  Yes D3 schools may have some sub par kids on the roster..but the ones that play are good.  

[Tigers2010]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

I find it funny that so many people on this site believe that lower levels of NCAA are so bad.  Lower levels of college still have kids that are really good.  They're doing everything in their power to recruit the best players possible just like the "big boys".  College teams beat schools in a higher division every single year.  They may not be beating the Alabamas of the world....but 98%+ of the kids on just about any high school team can't go play at a vast majority of D3 schools in the country.  I didn't say be on the team..I said play.  Yes D3 schools may have some sub par kids on the roster..but the ones that play are good.  

This is a point that is often overlooked. There is a HUGE difference between going to play for and actually playing for. 

[gohornets23]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

I find it funny that so many people on this site believe that lower levels of NCAA are so bad.  Lower levels of college still have kids that are really good.  They're doing everything in their power to recruit the best players possible just like the "big boys".  College teams beat schools in a higher division every single year.  They may not be beating the Alabamas of the world....but 98%+ of the kids on just about any high school team can't go play at a vast majority of D3 schools in the country.  I didn't say be on the team..I said play.  Yes D3 schools may have some sub par kids on the roster..but the ones that play are good.  

not really the discussion, but I think you misunderstand me...I'm not saying the kids at d3 schools are bad, but they don't really compare to D-1 or even D-2 level talent...they are usually guys that were good high school football players. Let's say a good, solid, talented high school football players is a 0, and a D-1 prospect with multiple offers from major conference schools is a 3.....I'd say the average d-3 player is around 1.....a few steps removed from the other guys. Hat's off to them for continuing the play, but if they were really all that talented somebody would be paying them to play (by scholarship) than them paying to play (by paying private school tuition) 

[Tigers2010]

15 minutes ago, gohornets23 said:

not really the discussion, but I think you misunderstand me...I'm not saying the kids at d3 schools are bad, but they don't really compare to D-1 or even D-2 level talent...they are usually guys that were good high school football players. Let's say a good, solid, talented high school football players is a 0, and a D-1 prospect with multiple offers from major conference schools is a 3.....I'd say the average d-3 player is around 1.....a few steps removed from the other guys. Hat's off to them for continuing the play, but if they were really all that talented somebody would be paying them to play (by scholarship) than them paying to play (by paying private school tuition) 

I see both sides of the arguement. However, those private institutions that do not "give athletic scholarships", very much DO give scholarships. There are easy loopholes. The admissions and financial offices are aware (often told by coaches) who those highly skilled athletes are. They are taken care of. I know this to be a fact. So though they are not getting full rides at Bama, a large portion of them are getting substantial help from the D-3 schools. Very, very few are paying private school tuition.

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, gohornets23 said:

not really the discussion, but I think you misunderstand me...I'm not saying the kids at d3 schools are bad, but they don't really compare to D-1 or even D-2 level talent...they are usually guys that were good high school football players. Let's say a good, solid, talented high school football players is a 0, and a D-1 prospect with multiple offers from major conference schools is a 3.....I'd say the average d-3 player is around 1.....a few steps removed from the other guys. Hat's off to them for continuing the play, but if they were really all that talented somebody would be paying them to play (by scholarship) than them paying to play (by paying private school tuition) 

"most of those are D3 which is really more like high school 2.0"

That's what you said.  Not me.  High school 2.0 doesn't sound to me like you're giving much credit.  I can assure you...there are several D2 and D3 athletes that are as good or better than some D1 kids.

And like Tigers2010 said...just because they aren't getting "athletic scholarships" doesn't mean they are paying for school.  There is a very good chance that lower level kids are paying less for school than some major D1 programs.  I can give you 2 very good examples.  A friend of mine had a kid play baseball at UT. (Texas).  Stud in high school...got a partial scholly.  50%.  Another guy I know had a daughter that went to McMurry to play soccor and was valedictorian of her high school class.  Received a scholarship (academic) that paid FULL tuition for 4 years.  Now...do we need to do some math? Granted...being an athlete isn't what paid for her school.  But she likely would've went somewhere else had she not been a soccer recruit.

By the way..not all D3 schools are private schools.

[Yeoj]

15 hours ago, setxguru said:

My question is just what it was on the other thread, let's go WB wins vs WB talent also PA wins vs PA talent? The three years Foreman has been at Central his overall record has been better than both of these schools and they both have signed as many or more kids. So I guess I'm just wondering why these two coaches and schools are being bashed and questioned the same way. Especially PA? My god they are 6-14 over the past two seasons. 

WB has beaten Foreman every year he's been at Central. But to answer your question, I would like to see a coaching upgrade throughout BISD. The Beaumont schools are packed full of under achieving coaches. The start must come with the horrible AD that's picking these guys. AD Seveat needs to be gone. Then for what Beaumont is paying, get some good motivated coaches that make the wins match the talent.

[Bmt_4now]

If you have the  opportunity to play D1 that's great and a huge  accomplishment! You have some kids that have d1 talent but don't have the grades and they have the mindset that they will go play junior college and then transfer! That's not the case, some of these junior colleges have more freshman and sophomore kids that have more talent than the major colleges so get ur grades and take the easy route! Because if a kid think they're gonna walk on a junior college campus and be the man just because they were a 5 star recruit that didn't get their grades they will be in for a big surprise! 

[gohornets23]

2 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

"most of those are D3 which is really more like high school 2.0"

That's what you said.  Not me.  High school 2.0 doesn't sound to me like you're giving much credit.  I can assure you...there are several D2 and D3 athletes that are as good or better than some D1 kids.

And like Tigers2010 said...just because they aren't getting "athletic scholarships" doesn't mean they are paying for school.  There is a very good chance that lower level kids are paying less for school than some major D1 programs.  I can give you 2 very good examples.  A friend of mine had a kid play baseball at UT. (Texas).  Stud in high school...got a partial scholly.  50%.  Another guy I know had a daughter that went to McMurry to play soccor and was valedictorian of her high school class.  Received a scholarship (academic) that paid FULL tuition for 4 years.  Now...do we need to do some math? Granted...being an athlete isn't what paid for her school.  But she likely would've went somewhere else had she not been a soccer recruit.

By the way..not all D3 schools are private schools.

alright alright alright....I retract my high school 2.0 statement

congratulations to you guys or your kids (whichever it was) for playing D3 sports

back to the topic though...I stand by my previous statement for every college player at those schools there are some downright bad players to balance it out, not much in the middle, this to me is their biggest problems. 

[Tigers2010]

51 minutes ago, gohornets23 said:

alright alright alright....I retract my high school 2.0 statement

congratulations to you guys or your kids (whichever it was) for playing D3 sports

back to the topic though...I stand by my previous statement for every college player at those schools there are some downright bad players to balance it out, not much in the middle, this to me is their biggest problems. 

You made an ignorant statement. No reason to take shots at anybody else, or their kids because you don't know what your talking about.

And nobody that plays significant time for Central are downright bad players. They are loaded with talent across the board. Another ignorant comment.

0-2

[87JAG]

Everything is not the kids fault. Coaches have to be up for the challenge as well. I've said it several times on here. The best programs in the area have stability. BISD will never be dominant again as long as they change coaches every couple of years and they let kids transfer schools at will. They have created a culture where coaches just do not want to stay here. You recently heard Coach Foreman was offered another job. You have to ask yourself why did he apply to a smaller school nonetheless?  How many coaches has the district went through under the current AD? It is very rare that a good coach will stay here long. Look at all the winning coaches that have been here since the creation on the school trifecta.  

WOS is the standard here! Great program. Two coaches in 25 -  30+ years. 

Much as it hurts me to say it, Ned is a well coached team. They always have been. They maximize the talent they have and don't make excuses. They know what to do with talent when they get it.

PNG is a respectable program.

[ozensfinest]

6 hours ago, Yeoj said:

WB has beaten Foreman every year he's been at Central. But to answer your question, I would like to see a coaching upgrade throughout BISD. The Beaumont schools are packed full of under achieving coaches. The start must come with the horrible AD that's picking these guys. AD Seveat needs to be gone. Then for what Beaumont is paying, get some good motivated coaches that make the wins match the talent.

Agree %100 Saveat has made a good hire in BISD since he hired Stump part of the reason is because he won't hire outside the area of SETX so it's just a recycling door with BISD coaching...Coaching is the biggest reason the Beaumont schools are underachieving and it won't change I've been saying it for a while that the coaching in SETX is rudimentary at best. But you can't really complain cause BISD/SETX don't really pay their coaches well especially when you're comparing the districts in the bigger cities, so you get what you pay for.

[gohornets23]

16 hours ago, Tigers2010 said:

You made an ignorant statement. No reason to take shots at anybody else, or their kids because you don't know what your talking about.

And nobody that plays significant time for Central are downright bad players. They are loaded with talent across the board. Another ignorant comment.

0-2

I'm not taking shots at anybody, just assuming since a few of you guys were so quick to defend d3 sports that you must have a connection somehow, otherwise how would be be so imminently knowledgeable on the topic

 

and yes..everybody for Central is a great player, the problem is coaching, for the last 30 years across 3 schools after countless coaching changes, no Beaumont schools have been able to find the right guy, yeah that's probably it. Cuz we all know that the players are always showing up to practice and making it to summer workouts and that they are all D-1 or D-3 (same thing) talents if they would just be coached right. I mean look at lil' roger, his dad was in the marching band and his mom quit basketball in 7th grade but he's a by gawd stud and if they don't win it's on the coaches. 

[oldschool2]

10 minutes ago, gohornets23 said:

I'm not taking shots at anybody, just assuming since a few of you guys were so quick to defend d3 sports that you must have a connection somehow, otherwise how would be be so imminently knowledgeable on the topic

 

and yes..everybody for Central is a great player, the problem is coaching, for the last 30 years across 3 schools after countless coaching changes, no Beaumont schools have been able to find the right guy, yeah that's probably it. Cuz we all know that the players are always showing up to practice and making it to summer workouts and that they are all D-1 or D-3 (same thing) talents if they would just be coached right. I mean look at lil' roger, his dad was in the marching band and his mom quit basketball in 7th grade but he's a by gawd stud and if they don't win it's on the coaches. 

5

Haven't you ever heard what it means to assume?

I just happen to know a little bit about college athletics.  And I know that MOST kids aren't good enough to play college ball.  On any level.

[Tigers2010]

22 minutes ago, gohornets23 said:

I'm not taking shots at anybody, just assuming since a few of you guys were so quick to defend d3 sports that you must have a connection somehow, otherwise how would be be so imminently knowledgeable on the topic

 

and yes..everybody for Central is a great player, the problem is coaching, for the last 30 years across 3 schools after countless coaching changes, no Beaumont schools have been able to find the right guy, yeah that's probably it. Cuz we all know that the players are always showing up to practice and making it to summer workouts and that they are all D-1 or D-3 (same thing) talents if they would just be coached right. I mean look at lil' roger, his dad was in the marching band and his mom quit basketball in 7th grade but he's a by gawd stud and if they don't win it's on the coaches. 

Anybody can talk with sarcasm. Most people who do, do it because they are no real argument and cannot come up with anything legit to say. Nobody has claimed that "everybody for Central is a great player" (ignorant statement #3). You also insinuated that Nederland has more depth in terms of solid football players than Central, that is laughable. (#4) Centrals depth athletically is the only thing they have going for them.

 

[gohornets23]

Dude..tigers2010...I'm sorry that I made fun of d-3 sports, I'm sure you had a long and illustrious career in front of all 12 of that school's devoted fans. You don't have to keep piling on me by counting my ignorant statements you may eventually run out of numbers, and I did make a valid point, there have been a lot of coaches come through these beaumont schools over the years, many have gone on to have success other places, don't you think it's a little simplistic so just say that the coaching in Beaumont sucks and always has sucked...or can we finally just say ....gasp!...maybe these schools aren't as athletic and deep as people like to think. Blame coaching has become the #1 cop out in this town for every team in every sport. 

[Bigdog]

1 hour ago, gohornets23 said:

Dude..tigers2010...I'm sorry that I made fun of d-3 sports, I'm sure you had a long and illustrious career in front of all 12 of that school's devoted fans. You don't have to keep piling on me by counting my ignorant statements you may eventually run out of numbers, and I did make a valid point, there have been a lot of coaches come through these beaumont schools over the years, many have gone on to have success other places, don't you think it's a little simplistic so just say that the coaching in Beaumont sucks and always has sucked...or can we finally just say ....gasp!...maybe these schools aren't as athletic and deep as people like to think. Blame coaching has become the #1 cop out in this town for every team in every sport. 

Keep this civil or don't respond at all.

[gohornets23]

alright alright..i'll stop poking

I am sorry, in trying to be light-hearted it appears I gave offense. I meant no disrespect to small college athletics. I do think that my comments on BISD football in general are correct though. These teams are never going to start having the success they want until kids and parents stop looking for outside forces to blame and start focusing on being the best teammates, players, and supporters that they can be.