UIL Pitch Limit

[Silsbee92]

UIL To Set Pitch Limit 

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I have mine, what say you?

[Hagar]

I think it's a necessary evil.  

A few Coaches want to win at all cost, and 99% of HS boys will tell his Coach his arm is fine, even when it isn't.

 

[ST413]

I feel that overall it is for the good and probably the only way you can make an effective rule.  However these kids are all different some mature earlier physically than others and some work harder than others, which may definitely give them the capability of throwing more pitches or recovering more quickly.  I also wonder how it will affect recruiting and coaching.  Could be a coaching nightmare.

[bulldog16]

This is the part that jumped out at me and hit the nail on the head.

"We want parents to know that the high school coach is going to take care of your son," said Sanders, a former coach at A&M Consolidated High School. "But after that, you need to have the information to know that your son, and or your daughter, is being taken care of by that summer-league select coach."

[ST413]

Summer league is definitely another issue in itself.

[Sportsfan1999]

when you play select ball from June-Sept and sometimes going to showcases till the end of October that is what is hurting these kids!!!! This really isn't a UIL thing its a Select Baseball thing!!

[Swagg3364]

Gonna defend Select Baseball a little bit.  Most select teams at the high school level play June & July.  Take off August and may play a few Sunday DH games in the fall.  The coaches in select ball at the high school level are more about getting their kids seen and giving them the opportunity to get to play at the next level, than winning games... hence the term showcase!!!  Pitch counts are usually much lower in Select than in High School.  Select takes a bad rap for a lot...  some of it may be deserved, but a lot of it is not!!!  Do kids need down time, and not play year round?  Not going to argue that point, but that is up to the individual kid and parents to determine if and/or how to accomplish that.

[Sportsfan1999]

there is a reason why baseball is only played in high school from Feb-may with state being in june=4 1/2 months, college baseball= 5 1/2 months, mlb= 8 months, if you live and die select ball and playing it non stop you are playing baseball for 8 months......not even MLB players play longer than that....this is why you see all these arm injuries....also select ball you have pitchers that pitch  and then they are still playing out in the field, these kids don't get rest like a normal 14-18 year old should just plain and simple...

[Swagg3364]

High school actually does have fall ball and now has baseball athletics....  I see by your user that you are a basketball person...  do think all these high school basketball players should stop playing in their summer leagues.  Colleges have a fall practice session and players play in summer leagues after their college season!!!

[AggiesAreWe]

4 minutes ago, Swagg3364 said:

High school actually does have fall ball and now has baseball athletics....  I see by your user that you are a basketball person...  do think all these high school basketball players should stop playing in their summer leagues.  Colleges have a fall practice session and players play in summer leagues after their college season!!!

Being that I know who basketball2019 is, I would trust his knowledge on this subject. He pitched at D-1 level.

Also, I think basketball2019 is referring to high school and younger age players playing too much. College and pro have stronger, more mature bodies that can play more during the year.

[Swagg3364]

44 minutes ago, Swagg3364 said:

Gonna defend Select Baseball a little bit.  Most select teams at the high school level play June & July.  Take off August and may play a few Sunday DH games in the fall.  The coaches in select ball at the high school level are more about getting their kids seen and giving them the opportunity to get to play at the next level, than winning games... hence the term showcase!!!  Pitch counts are usually much lower in Select than in High School.  Select takes a bad rap for a lot...  some of it may be deserved, but a lot of it is not!!!  Do kids need down time, and not play year round?  Not going to argue that point, but that is up to the individual kid and parents to determine if and/or how to accomplish that.

I have agreed with that from the beginning.  Just was making the point that he was not representing the facts 100%, and that college players play more than 5 1/2 months,  much more.  But to point the finger at select ball and say that is the problem is like point the finger at guns and say that the have to be banned because they kill people.  People pull the trigger, just like parents (people) have to decide what is right for their son or daughter (how much down time do they need).  To blame just select baseball is a short sided generalization.

[fox]

38 minutes ago, Swagg3364 said:

I have agreed with that from the beginning.  Just was making the point that he was not representing the facts 100%, and that college players play more than 5 1/2 months,  much more.  But to point the finger at select ball and say that is the problem is like point the finger at guns and say that the have to be banned because they kill people.  People pull the trigger, just like parents (people) have to decide what is right for their son or daughter (how much down time do they need).  To blame just select baseball is a short sided generalization.

there are lots of other things you can blame the select /showcase culture for......

[Swagg3364]

Like creating the best generation of baseball players to ever play the game?  Just to back myself up... have read several articles that suggest this.  I'm gonna need a bigger spoon!!!

[callumlikeiseeum]

How did we go from fifty to fifty thousand?

Here is one man's opinion on how and why the problem might have developed.  In 1990, only the elite player from this area played true select baseball.  The John Pattersons and the Brian Sanchezes of the area.  The rest of the kids played HS ball, a few summer ball games with their HS teammates, and those not in football played a few fall ball games with their HS teammates. 

At this time in history it cost the local kid $50 bucks a year to play the game we love. 

Then some folks saw people in Houston and Dallas making big money from showcase teams.  It spread to this area and several who were self proclaimed baseball instructors in our area began to do the same here in the summers.  All you had to be was a successful former player or someone who coached (or raised) a successful former player, and you could line em up and churn out the lessons.  Some would do it on the side, some decided to make a run at doing it for a living.  Those in the second group had to expand so they could better capitalize financially on the popularity of our sport.  To do this they had to have their guys paying them in the fall as well.  So they went that route.  Some even encouraged many kids not to play other sports so they could keep the flow of that kids parents money into their pockets and they not only coached the kid's teams couple days a week, but for an extra fee, would even coach them more if they would show up a couple more days a week for supplemental lessons on specific parts of the game.  As we currently stand some of these people have figured out how to make quite a living off this great sport.  All they have to do is control the environment. You might could use some of these tactics to sustain profitability 1)  say whatever you have to say to recruit the best kids so you can win ex. tell them its all about the kids 2) it might help to bad mouth anybody else and any other sport that is a threat to taking any kid away from you for any amount of time which would result in a decrease your annual income. 3)  when you finally have the hook set on the kid and their parents go to work on them that you are the only person they need to succeed.  Tell them their high school coach wont help them play at the next level. Tell them that in all actuality they need not even play high school baseball because you are their ticket. The day enough moms and dads believe that, is the day that baseball in our area has been ruined by greed.

Remember that $50 it used to cost to play? Over the course of 10 or 12 years, many families are spending 30? 40? 50,000? dollars doing all of this (more if have injuries from overuse).  FYI guys.  You could pay your own way to college for that.

Ask any college or pro player (that is not in this business, and those that have not drank the koolaid provided by the aforementioned), what were his greatest days in this sport? and the vast majority will tell you, it was putting on their high school uniform and representing their community with the classmates they went to school with since kindergarten.  It was the fight for bragging rights between towns and the right to talk trash with our co-workers the next day at work.  Some in this business must not have played in that environment and loathe their HS experience but they are short changing any kid or kids that they convince those months out of the year should be four more spent in their gym so that the funds keep flowing.

With that said, there are some great people in the area that profit from the great game of baseball, that don't bad mouth others, and participate in America's past time for the right reasons which are the kids and the world's greatest game.  Thank you to those guys.  If this is you, you will not be offended by what I have written here today. 

callumlikeiseeum   

[HOTROD309]

We have played select ball our whole lives and never have we had an issue with a coach overthrowing a kid. You cant put the blame on just "Select/ summerball" or even coaches. If your going to blame someone. Blame the parents because their the DUMB A$$E$ that let their kid throw everyday. People need to stop pointing the finger at Summer ball and coaches and start blaming themselves for not speaking up. Anyway rant over... back to the subject. Should there be a pitch count in HS.. YES 100 pitches total once a week. I've seen some kids throw 120+ pitches lately and that's where kids get hurt.

 

[78Stang]

Callumlikeiseeum is exactly right, Its about time somebody told the truth even though you will feel the repercussions from the select coaches. Remember they don't have real jobs and you are threatening their livelihood. These kids are being used by the select coaches as nothing more than a money making scheme. Parents wake up, they don't care about your son or you. All they care about is putting money in their pocket. When and If a young man does actually make it to D1 or better then he claims it was all because of him and his great coaching. He will not tell you about the other 99 out of 100 who did not make it.

[HOTROD309]

3 minutes ago, 78Stang said:

Callumlikeiseeum is exactly right, Its about time somebody told the truth even though you will feel the repercussions from the select coaches. Remember they don't have real jobs and you are threatening their livelihood. These kids are being used by the select coaches as nothing more than a money making scheme. Parents wake up, they don't care about your son or you. All they care about is putting money in their pocket. When and If a young man does actually make it to D1 or better then he claims it was all because of him and his great coaching. He will not tell you about the other 99 out of 100 who did not make it.

Oh lord .... Here we go... Guess little Johnny's feelings got hurt.. didn't make the team or something.

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

11 minutes ago, HOTROD309 said:

We have played select ball our whole lives and never have we had an issue with a coach overthrowing a kid. You cant put the blame on just "Select/ summerball" or even coaches. If your going to blame someone. Blame the parents because their the DUMB A$$E$ that let their kid throw everyday. People need to stop pointing the finger at Summer ball and coaches and start blaming themselves for not speaking up. Anyway rant over... back to the subject. Should there be a pitch count in HS.. YES 100 pitches total once a week. I've seen some kids throw 120+ pitches lately and that's where kids get hurt.

 

It all depends on your definition of overthrowing.  Most select coaches have no problem pitching a kid on Friday or Saturday and then turn around and pitching the kid in the championship game or semi-finals on Sunday.  If the kid threw more than 40-45 pitches on Saturday, do you consider it "overthrowing" for the coach to pitch him again on Sunday?  And remember, we are talking pitches, not innings like some select leagues like to use.

By the way, I support the new pitching limits 100%.  I'm especially supportive of the # of days rested between outings.

 

[HOTROD309]

2 minutes ago, AthleticSupporter - Jock said:

It all depends on your definition of overthrowing.  Most select coaches have no problem pitching a kid on Friday or Saturday and then turn around and pitching the kid in the championship game or semi-finals on Sunday.  If the kid threw more than 40-45 pitches on Saturday, do you consider it "overthrowing" for the coach to pitch him again on Sunday?  And remember, we are talking pitches, not innings like some select leagues like to use.

By the way, I support the new pitching limits 100%.  I'm especially supportive of the # of days rested between outings.

 

Again why wouldn't a parent speak up? Our coaches throw a kid on Sat would not throw on Sunday.. unless they only threw 15 to 20 pitches to finish out a game I see no problem in that .. But yeah more than 30 should be done for a few days

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

1 minute ago, HOTROD309 said:

Again why wouldn't a parent speak up? Our coaches throw a kid on Sat would not throw on Sunday.. unless they only threw 15 to 20 pitches to finish out a game I see no problem in that .. But yeah more than 30 should be done for a few days

It sounds like your coach is doing it right.  I get especially frustrated with the select coaches who ignore pitch counts and only go by the Innings Allowed.  A kid gets in trouble one inning and throws 40+ pitches but he still only pitched 1 inning in that coach's eyes.  In that exact case, I did speak up as a parent and it almost got ugly with the coach.  That was our last year with that team/coach.

 

[fox]

1 hour ago, Swagg3364 said:

Like creating the best generation of baseball players to ever play the game?  Just to back myself up... have read several articles that suggest this.  I'm gonna need a bigger spoon!!!

yea you keep believing that.

your statement is one of the biggest problems

[hawkeye07]

32 minutes ago, HOTROD309 said:

We have played select ball our whole lives and never have we had an issue with a coach overthrowing a kid. You cant put the blame on just "Select/ summerball" or even coaches. If your going to blame someone. Blame the parents because their the DUMB A$$E$ that let their kid throw everyday. People need to stop pointing the finger at Summer ball and coaches and start blaming themselves for not speaking up. Anyway rant over... back to the subject. Should there be a pitch count in HS.. YES 100 pitches total once a week. I've seen some kids throw 120+ pitches lately and that's where kids get hurt.

 

This post was interesting to me.

Does it not say at the start of his post to stop pointing the finger?

and then in the middle of post point the finger at the parents?

and finish the post with pointing the finger at the high school coach? 

 

[Swagg3364]

17 minutes ago, fox said:

2 hours ago, fox said:

there are lots of other things you can blame the select /showcase culture for......

 

Actually I was just trying to bait you in to tell us what we could blame on select/showcase culture.  Cause I think I might know where you were heading...

[Swagg3364]

1 hour ago, callumlikeiseeum said:

How did we go from fifty to fifty thousand?

Here is one man's opinion on how and why the problem might have developed.  In 1990, only the elite player from this area played true select baseball.  The John Pattersons and the Brian Sanchezes of the area.  The rest of the kids played HS ball, a few summer ball games with their HS teammates, and those not in football played a few fall ball games with their HS teammates. 

At this time in history it cost the local kid $50 bucks a year to play the game we love. 

Then some folks saw people in Houston and Dallas making big money from showcase teams.  It spread to this area and several who were self proclaimed baseball instructors in our area began to do the same here in the summers.  All you had to be was a successful former player or someone who coached (or raised) a successful former player, and you could line em up and churn out the lessons.  Some would do it on the side, some decided to make a run at doing it for a living.  Those in the second group had to expand so they could better capitalize financially on the popularity of our sport.  To do this they had to have their guys paying them in the fall as well.  So they went that route.  Some even encouraged many kids not to play other sports so they could keep the flow of that kids parents money into their pockets and they not only coached the kid's teams couple days a week, but for an extra fee, would even coach them more if they would show up a couple more days a week for supplemental lessons on specific parts of the game.  As we currently stand some of these people have figured out how to make quite a living off this great sport.  All they have to do is control the environment. You might could use some of these tactics to sustain profitability 1)  say whatever you have to say to recruit the best kids so you can win ex. tell them its all about the kids 2) it might help to bad mouth anybody else and any other sport that is a threat to taking any kid away from you for any amount of time which would result in a decrease your annual income. 3)  when you finally have the hook set on the kid and their parents go to work on them that you are the only person they need to succeed.  Tell them their high school coach wont help them play at the next level. Tell them that in all actuality they need not even play high school baseball because you are their ticket. The day enough moms and dads believe that, is the day that baseball in our area has been ruined by greed.

Remember that $50 it used to cost to play? Over the course of 10 or 12 years, many families are spending 30? 40? 50,000? dollars doing all of this (more if have injuries from overuse).  FYI guys.  You could pay your own way to college for that.

Ask any college or pro player (that is not in this business, and those that have not drank the koolaid provided by the aforementioned), what were his greatest days in this sport? and the vast majority will tell you, it was putting on their high school uniform and representing their community with the classmates they went to school with since kindergarten.  It was the fight for bragging rights between towns and the right to talk trash with our co-workers the next day at work.  Some in this business must not have played in that environment and loathe their HS experience but they are short changing any kid or kids that they convince those months out of the year should be four more spent in their gym so that the funds keep flowing.

With that said, there are some great people in the area that profit from the great game of baseball, that don't bad mouth others, and participate in America's past time for the right reasons which are the kids and the world's greatest game.  Thank you to those guys.  If this is you, you will not be offended by what I have written here today. 

callumlikeiseeum   

Can someone please let me know which college or colleges are providing degrees for $30k, 40k, or even 50k, because I want to sign up now before all the spots are taken!!!

[callumlikeiseeum]

Strange reply to come away with!