Locals who have asked for release

[CardinalBacker]

5 hours ago, GCMPats said:

 

3. Why has the NCAA remained silent on this issue? Something terrible obviously happened here. They could step in and rectify this situation in one fail swoop. Take the burden of releasing these players AWAY from Baylor. Do it for them.

4. Finally, fix the damn transfer rules. If a coach leaves, allow the players to leave too- WITHOUT punishment.

3. They haven't done anything because no NCAA rules have been broken. That was the danger of the rush to judgement after Penn State. Obviously some terrible things were done in both places, but you can't point to a NCAA rule or guideline that was broken. The NCAA was trying to punish Penn State, but had limited ways to do so... So in addition to forfeited wins and postseason bans, the NCAA let student athletes transfer. It wasn't to help the specific athletes, it was to hurt Penn State. Let's be honest... It's one thing for the NCAA to come down on a state school like Penn, who wants only to get the trouble behind them and doesn't mind ponying up $60 million taxpayer dollars to do so, and teeing off on privately funded Baylor, with an army or Baylor Law graduates who support the place with massive donations.  

4.  I disagree.  The players committed to the school, not a particular coach or teammate.  Think about it. Limited scholarships for any school. A kid that is allowed to transfer now will end up taking somebody else's scholly wherever he ends up.  I mean, is Hudson's pop going to pay for this year at A&M out of pocket, or is some kid who is already enrolled and working out about to lose his ride? Or, will the boosters step up and make sure these hopeful transferees can attend school this fall? 

The rules are there for a reason.  You don't have to play for the Bears.  You'll just have to sit out a year.

 

[KABrother]

Source are now saying the the Balyor BOR is looking into re-instating Briles since "he was not educated on how to handle instances of rape"

First off, that is a load of hog wash...if you don't have that kind of common sense you are a friggin moron and shouldn't be in charge of 100 18-22 year olds who feel they are untouchable...I don't care how brilliant you are with a playbook. He was even bringing in transfers who had these issues at their previous schools...was almost like he was looking for these guys.

I think it would be very interesting to see what these players requesting releases would do if Briles was reinstated.  If they drop their appeal it will appear that they were truly only trying to get out because of Briles and not the circumstances that happened.

On a side note, one interesting thing I've seen that will void a NLI is if the school is found to have committed recruiting violations.  So if a school does this you can get out of a NLI free and clear...however if you are a current player and a school commits these same violations, you are still bound to the NCAA transfer rules

[Scatright]

7 minutes ago, KABrother said:

Source are now saying the the Balyor BOR is looking into re-instating Briles since "he was not educated on how to handle instances of rape"

First off, that is a load of hog wash...if you don't have that kind of common sense you are a friggin moron and shouldn't be in charge of 100 18-22 year olds who feel they are untouchable...I don't care how brilliant you are with a playbook. He was even bringing in transfers who had these issues at their previous schools...was almost like he was looking for these guys.

I think it would be very interesting to see what these players requesting releases would do if Briles was reinstated.  If they drop their appeal it will appear that they were truly only trying to get out because of Briles and not the circumstances that happened.

On a side note, one interesting thing I've seen that will void a NLI is if the school is found to have committed recruiting violations.  So if a school does this you can get out of a NLI free and clear...however if you are a current player and a school commits these same violations, you are still bound to the NCAA transfer rules

Where is this being reported?

If he is reinstated, everyone will go back to Baylor as previously planned. It's silly to think this is linked to anything but Briles departure.

[Peppermint Patty]

22 minutes ago, Scatright said:

Where is this being reported?

If he is reinstated, everyone will go back to Baylor as previously planned. It's silly to think this is linked to anything but Briles departure.

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

For once, I hope Chip is wrong. 

[CraigS]

On 6/10/2016 at 10:45 PM, ST413 said:

Definately not a joking matter.  And one the issue wasn't that school officials tried to cover up the incident, the issue was how to handle it while the case was untried.  Remember in this country even those accused of such acts are innocent until proven guilty.  Were  mistakes made or were there things that could have been handled better, of course.   But the big difference in that and Baylor is that during that school year the accusations and charges had been made but no official outcome had come out yet hence the school was in a tough spot. In Baylors case that official outcome has just come out and now after that outcome and its effects is when these young men are wanting out of their letters of intent.

Not much difference at all really. No "charges" were brought against the Baylor players until after they were no longer players at Baylor. It is said that Baylor failed to investigate. Well, the police were investigating, why did Baylor have to investigate? Well, that's the same thing Silsbee said, the police and DA's office were handling the case, there was nothing the school could do, per se without any "charges".

With that said, in Silsbee's defense, once the DA's office screwed it up, it did limit the schools "legal" ability toward the accused. UNTIL, the special prosecutor did get an indictment, by that point the player was no longer a student at SHS (the same as at Baylor) However, like so many now want to blame Baylor for not doing more....the same could be said of Silsbee.

ALSO, whereas the connection mentioned by others....Briles and the former SHS AD were roommates during their college careers...and it is believed that the former AD was in some way going to benefit from that relationship had Briles remained as HC at Baylor........it is also said the lack of discipline at Baylor by Briles is the cause of said culture....it is also said that the lack of discipline at SHS was the reason for the resignation of the former HC/AD of SHS.......

With that said....I might know a little about exactly how this went down at SHS! 

AND, Those wanting to bail on Baylor now has NOTHING to do with the situation going on there EXCEPT that Briles is gone.

Disclaimer: This culture of blame the victims and protect the superstar athletes is not limited to Baylor and/or SHS. It is a national problem (all sports , mostly football), these 2 schools at their respective levels just got caught and got more publicity.

- carry on

[ST413]

I know you know very well how it all went down at Silsbee.  I am not arguing any point you made here except for that last statement.  As for what I have been told one players decision to be removed from Baylor is largely a part of these findings.  Did Briles removal play a part as well, I am sure it did.

[ST413]

The big thing I see on Baylors part was trying to hide accusations or keep such for being made.  You have the knowledge in the local case but I didn't see any coverup just some things that could have and should have been handled better..

[CraigS]

1 hour ago, ST413 said:

I know you know very well how it all went down at Silsbee.  I am not arguing any point you made here except for that last statement.  As for what I have been told one players decision to be removed from Baylor is largely a part of these findings.  Did Briles removal play a part as well, I am sure it did.

 as others have mentioned....this is nothing new, this information has been out there for quite awhile......No one - Me, you or anyone other than the kid KNOWS his reasoning for not wanting to enroll......but it is NOT because this is something new....one might have to admit to having not done their research .... but, the only thing "new" is Briles is out a job due to what's been going on for a while.

[CraigS]

1 hour ago, ST413 said:

The big thing I see on Baylors part was trying to hide accusations or keep such for being made.  You have the knowledge in the local case but I didn't see any coverup just some things that could have and should have been handled better..

Correct, no cover-up by SISD. Just a similar coach (room mates) with no discipline that let me know BOLDLY, he was a "foot-ball coach" and he had sons....and of course no effort during or after to apply any discipline, in fact even after a restraining order.... tried to have him slipped into the school (off limits per restraining order) to have his senior pictures taken. Only after "others" informed me of the intentions and I made a big deal about it, on legal terms pertaining to SISD, did it not take place. I only bring this back up because it is a culture to protect the "superstars" and their entitlements and of course Briles and company are 2 peas... when it comes to lack of discipline. So playing for one is no different than playing for the other.... I just find it hard to believe the events that "HE" may have just heard about (but been around a long time) is the main reason for not wanting to enroll.

[CraigS]

My only reason to get involved in this conversation is to say this.....the Baylor situation is not unique. This culture of protecting the male athletes (particularly football players) of sexual misconduct runs rampant....be it HS, NCAA, NFL, etc. 

To claim "I didn't know" is juvenile at best, it may be worse at some schools than others, some may get caught, others not....but it is out there. If players cared about this topic, they would self report from within the program...these "kids" have the power to make an impact by disowning or reporting fellow players known to participate in this behavior......but they do not. IMO, they aren't the rapist, but they are enabling the culture to continue by staying silent. AND - stating you don't want to enroll AFTER the fact it went this big....doesn't mean much other than you are protecting you own self interest, not that of the REAL victims.

[ST413]

1 hour ago, CraigS said:

Correct, no cover-up by SISD. Just a similar coach (room mates) with no discipline that let me know BOLDLY, he was a "foot-ball coach" and he had sons....and of course no effort during or after to apply any discipline, in fact even after a restraining order.... tried to have him slipped into the school (off limits per restraining order) to have his senior pictures taken. Only after "others" informed me of the intentions and I made a big deal about it, on legal terms pertaining to SISD, did it not take place. I only bring this back up because it is a culture to protect the "superstars" and their entitlements and of course Briles and company are 2 peas... when it comes to lack of discipline. So playing for one is no different than playing for the other.... I just find it hard to believe the events that "HE" may have just heard about (but been around a long time) is the main reason for not wanting to enroll.

I don't think it was hearing about it  because yes that wa evident.  But like you said you hear about it all over the place. I think it was having the report come out with evidence so to speak and the aftermath as well.  Like I have said before now that there is a "report", how would it look later in life if you are up for a job and your name is known as a football player at Baylor around this time.  Not something most people would want to be labeled as.

[CraigS]

2 minutes ago, ST413 said:

I don't think it was hearing about it  because yes that wa evident.  But like you said you hear about it all over the place. I think it was having the report come out with evidence so to speak and the aftermath as well.  Like I have said before now that there is a "report", how would it look later in life if you are up for a job and your name is known as a football player at Baylor around this time.  Not something most people would want to be labeled as.

Not disagreeing, but...does it take a report? Is Florida State any better with Jamison..stealing, derogatory comments about women (with video) etc.....that was all over the news......no one was wanting out of those NLI . ... the difference - No coaches were fired. 

Just saying, IMO - I call BS on any reason other than Briles getting fired as the reason players are wanting out of their NLI...that's all...just MY opinion only.

[ST413]

I think the big difference is that the report placed blame on the university for the cover up as well as the individual. In most of the other instances it was individual players.  Not taking away from the incidents but that individual doesn't reflect on you but being a part of that university does.  

in this instance at Baylor I wouldn't want my name associated with the school at this time, but if I was at a school where a certain player committed such an act but thev niversity did nothing wrong I wouldn't necessarily want to transfer. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

On 6/8/2016 at 1:58 PM, theNeed4Speed said:

Hudson / Martin have both asked for releases. Any idea where these two may land next?

I seen Dickson (Navasota) wants out as well.

I think its' upwards to 8-10 who have asked for releases at this time. Imagine there's more to come.

 

 

 

[MossHill]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 1:24 PM, setxguru said:

3 minutes ago, Mr. Buddy Garrity said:

 

 

Oh my my my........UH is a national contender and with this guy....WOW

 

[liljames83]

Dude is a game changer

[Team Game]

I do want to commend Mr. Arnold for going through with his commitment.

 

I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision for any of these kids to make. 

 

My question is if any of these kids that have asked for a release had a major incident, would Baylor still be standing behind them? Would you think the University owed it to the individual to stand by their part of the commitment?

 

 

[ST413]

Excellent question!!  If the kids are expected to follow through with their commitment to a school found to have covered such acts shouldn't he school have to uphold their commitment to the athletes that have committed criminal acts?

[CraigS]

13 hours ago, ST413 said:

Excellent question!!  If the kids are expected to follow through with their commitment to a school found to have covered such acts shouldn't he school have to uphold their commitment to the athletes that have committed criminal acts?

Having been on both sides of this question, having had years to reflect and learn some things, it's a no win situation, (for everyone involved) if not handled 100% correctly. Anything short of 100% opens them up for grave consequences.

The law states, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty....the people convict in the court of public opinion......so what is the school to do? If they discipline, then the justice system either finds not guilty or even screws it up and lets them off, even if they did do it.....the accused sues the school...IF, the school does not discipline, the accused is convicted, then the victim sues the school. 

Then comes Title IX (most think it is just a sports rule) where females are protected, and are to receive equal opportunity, not just in sports but also for an education. So,one might ask how do sexual crimes and Title IX coexist? That's the real question. How do you remove the threat of the female (the accused) as to keep her feeling safe, and knowing the school did all they can to provide such protections, without violating the accused rights of "presumed innocence" until they are actually found guilty, if they even are?

This is a similar situation we were faced with, I did what I thought was right, so did the SISD.....I think we both got some things wrong, in the end....there were NO winners....

 

 

[ST413]

Craig I have nothing but respect for that answer.  As a father of a two year old girl, I know in that situation: 1. You almost totally will believe in your daughter and what she says, unless there are very serious reasons not too, 2.) you have to control your emotions not to physically react.  And 3.) you are going to go after anyone or entity you think isn't protecting her..  I can't imagine how hard that would be and don't want to ever find out.  I was there a time or two where I was close to a point of stepping between your daughter and some "hecklers" but luckily the situation was handled about the same time.  

For you to come back and admit that you could have handled some things better is huge in my book.

now as far as my post above its more directed to those saying these students made a commitment to the school not the coach.  If those students should keep their commitment to a school that has been found guilty,. Why shouldn't a school that has a athlete that has been found guilty have to stick to their commitment to them.  

My answer is neither should be obligated but there have been many stating that the athletes should.

[CraigS]

My point is this. UNTIL the accused are actually charged....what can the school or it's administrators do? I hate it...I fought it...yet, don't know what can be done to protect the victim AND the accused, which by law is presumed innocent.

Once the administrators found out that others knew or knew more, they acted by firing or demoting...what more could have been done at that time? 

SO, at this point, with all said and done......Baylor .... the institution itself did nothing, it  was the people....and THOSE people are gone.....so what's left to want to leave or not enroll.........not to mention....due to this, it's probably the safest place to be......so other than "because the coach has been fired" what other reason is there........I'm not defending the people's actions...believe me...I can't stand Briles...didn't like him or his roomie even before this....

[ST413]

I can see that point.  And yes right now I hope Baylor is one of if not the safest.  But I still would not want to have my name associated with that football program for a few years!