It's official!

[Brubaker]

7 minutes ago, indianforever said:

curious to see how this will effect the team

You will get to find out

[Brubaker]

21 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

Yep

If a rule was broken, why wouldn't it have been 7-0, it would be embarrassing for it not to be.

[outanup]

12 minutes ago, indianforever said:

curious to see how this will effect the team

Be careful what you're curious about.....

[Indianforever]

9 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

Well, the immediate effects are this.  The forfeit drops Nederland into the 6th place spot at 1-3 in district (1/2 game behind Central who is 1-2).  What is of more concern, of the 4 teams that now occupy the top 4 spots, Vidor at 4-0, PAM and PNG at 3-0, and Livingston at 2-1, only PN-G does not hold a head to head tiebreaker over Nederland (as they have yet to play).  As one poster stated in another thread, Nederland's playoffs begin on Friday.

It will be interesting to see if the Bulldogs' play reflects that sense of urgency.

so basically Nederland has to win out to have a chance at the playoffs?

[WOSgrad]

32 minutes ago, bigdog said:

Easy.  Pot -> Kettle

Excuse me?

[WOSgrad]

4 minutes ago, indianforever said:

so basically Nederland has to win out to have a chance at the playoffs?

Perhaps, I was a bit hasty, but not by much.  I do know that a win over Central is a must this weekend as a loss would give the head to head tiebreaker to 4 of the 5 teams in front of Nederland.  That is a whole pile of bodies to step over to get a playoff berth.

 

 

[spoonbill]

20 minutes ago, Brubaker said:

The transfer/release was signed by PAM and filed with the UIL.  The UIL saw something and contacted the school.  Neumann immediately took action until the decision came down?  No spin, just facts.  There is absolutely NO way Neumann would put guys like Connor Perkins and Corbin Smith (2 time district champs and seniors) intentionally in jeopardy of something like this.  This goes for all of his senior class.  Your post above is straight GARBAGE lies, but fun for you I know.

The truth is Neumann took a risk he thought was worth taking by playing a player that hadn't been cleared yet by the UIL. It came back to bite him. I'm sure he was fairly certain the player would be approved. It was a calculated risk, but in any gamble there's a chance of failure. That's why all those casinos have such nice facilities. ;-)

[Brubaker]

20 minutes ago, indianforever said:

so basically Nederland has to win out to have a chance at the playoffs?

No, they must beat Central, Ozen, Lumberton, for certain.

[Playa]

55 minutes ago, XX Man said:

I think all that is a crock. People and families move. Sure, there are a few that do it for sports, but very darn few. The rest are penalized for it.

 

It happens a lot more than you think!!

[Peppermint Patty]

FOR PARTICIPANT SCHOOLS AND UIL MEMBERS. The penalties that may be imposed by the State Executive Committee on a participant school or UIL member for violations of the Constitution or violations by participant school student representatives, patrons, personnel or fans of ethics, sportsmanship codes, eligibility rules, contest plans or reporting practices are: reprimand; public reprimand; forfeiture of contest; disqualification from germane activity; and suspension.

(1) Reprimand. A reprimand may be oral or in writing and shall not be published in the Leaguer. A penalty stronger than reprimand to the school should be strongly considered in cases involving patron or fan misconduct.

(2) Public Reprimand. A public reprimand shall be in writing, published in the Leaguer, and state the violation found. A public reprimand may include a probationary period of up to three years, and may include any reasonable conditions, which, if not fulfilled, may result in a more stringent penalty.

(3) Forfeiture of Contest.  

[Brubaker]

25 minutes ago, spoonbill said:

The truth is Neumann took a risk he thought was worth taking by playing a player that hadn't been cleared yet by the UIL. It came back to bite him. I'm sure he was fairly certain the player would be approved. It was a calculated risk, but in any gamble there's a chance of failure. That's why all those casinos have such nice facilities. ;-)

Does the UIL clear players to play with some official clearance??? Or is it handled locally with the transfer paperwork and release from the school he's leaving from, in this case PAM???

[Peppermint Patty]

6 minutes ago, Brubaker said:

Does the UIL clear players to play with some official clearance??? Or is it handled locally with the transfer paperwork and release from the school he's leaving from, in this case PAM???

The PAP has to be signed by all the parties involved.

Typically, it is signed without issue. I have seen coaches that will sign and put information on the PAP about why the player left that may drag out the process (ie.. discipline issues, etc..)

 

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[Realville]

1 hour ago, Brubaker said:

The transfer/release was signed by PAM and filed with the UIL.  The UIL saw something and contacted the school.  Neumann immediately took action until the decision came down?  No spin, just facts.  There is absolutely NO way Neumann would put guys like Connor Perkins and Corbin Smith (2 time district champs and seniors) intentionally in jeopardy of something like this.  This goes for all of his senior class.  Your post above is straight GARBAGE lies, but fun for you I know.

 

[WOSgrad]

43 minutes ago, Brubaker said:

The transfer/release was signed by PAM and filed with the UIL.  The UIL saw something and contacted the school.  Neumann immediately took action until the decision came down?  No spin, just facts.  There is absolutely NO way Neumann would put guys like Connor Perkins and Corbin Smith (2 time district champs and seniors) intentionally in jeopardy of something like this.  This goes for all of his senior class.  Your post above is straight GARBAGE lies, but fun for you I know.

I don't believe that Neumann would intentionally play a player whose eligibility was questionable.  However, there are some lingering questions that remain unanswered:

1.   What was the purpose of the eligibility waiver? The only one of the waivers that would seem to apply would be the parent resident waiver.  The rule governing this is in Rule 463 of the UIL Constitution and Contest Rules and it states:

(2) Parent Residence Rule.

(A) If a District Executive Committee finds that a student does not comply with Sections 403(f) and 442 (residence rules), that student may apply for a waiver of the apparent non-compliance and a declaration of eligibility.

(B) A waiver of the residence rule shall be null and void when either the District Executive Committee or the State Executive Committee determines that the student changed schools for athletic purposes.

(C) If a student who has been granted a waiver returns to the school in the attendance zone where the parents reside, a Previous Athletic Participation Form shall be furnished to the District Executive Committee, who will rule on the student’s eligibility at that school.

 

2.    If this is the waiver, when did Nederland submit such a waiver for Kevin Laday?  By the rule, a waiver would only be appropriate to apply for if the DEC ruled that the student did not comply.  Did the DEC make such a ruling? And if so, why would Nederland allow Laday to play in varsity play under the shadow of this ruling?  Was the original waiver application granted and the UIL contact which occurred following the week of the Nederland/Livingston game notifying them that they had received information which may compel them to reverse their granting of the waiver or was the word that Nederland got last week that the UIL had denied Nederland/Laday's original application?

These questions leave open the possibility that, at the very least, there was some lack of due diligence here.

[Guest ECBucFan]

1 hour ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

Its also official that Nederland doesn't have the same pull as Katy does

Seriously? You need to rethink that statement badly. 

Katy has been severly penalized for technicalities, causing ejections for playoffs more than once. I cannot recant all the details exactly, but the baseball team was kicked out of the playoffs because two players helped out in a youth baseball camp during the season, and then there was the T-shirt fiasco that involved Katy football before that.

If anything, katy wears a bullseye in the eyes of the UIL. 

For example:  http://www.chron.com/sports/highschool/article/UIL-rules-against-Katy-baseball-Tigers-out-of-7388391.php 

   

 

[Brubaker]

18 minutes ago, Realville said:

 

 

No whining here, but 14.2 facts were not correct.  There was no knowledge that he was ineligible and Neumann tried to sneak him in, that is a GARBAGE statement..  As WOSGrad referenced obviously somewhere the due diligence fell short.

[Guest ECBucFan]

14 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

I don't believe that Neumann would intentionally play a player whose eligibility was questionable.  However, there are some lingering questions that remain unanswered:

These questions leave open the possibility that, at the very least, there was some lack of due diligence here.

I agree, LN would not have jeopardized his season to KNOWINGLY play an ineligible player. 

Regardless, Ned should realize this only caused one single loss for them. If Ned would / could have played better after that, the playoffs would/could still be ahead for the Dogs.    

[WOSgrad]

1 hour ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

Its also official that Nederland doesn't have the same pull as Katy does

Well, I know that when I got word of the denial of the waiver that I still did not change either Nederland or Livingston's standings or season results and the State ruling regarding the Katy/Manvel playoff game did enter into that decision. 

However, the result today came as no surprise as that ruling last year was an anomoly even for Katy, who not only was removed from the baseball playoffs in the incident that ECBucFan noted, but also pulled from their buses on the way to a football state championship game a few years back.

Also, remember that the decision today to compel the forfeit was not at the state level but at the district level.  And if this message board is indicative of one thing, it is that, protests of district unity aside, there is not a whole lot of love lost amongst the schools in 22-5A.

[Brubaker]

28 minutes ago, GCMPats / Free BG said:

The PAP has to be signed by all the parties involved.

Typically, it is signed without issue. I have seen coaches that will sign and put information on the PAP about why the player left that may drag out the process (ie.. discipline issues, etc..)

 

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Does this indicate that the process was approved by the DEC and sent to the UIL for final sign off?  If so, how did it get approved at the district level?

[pirate58]

Nederland will play with pride, they always have

[NHSBulldogFan]

29 minutes ago, ECBucFan said:

Seriously? You need to rethink that statement badly. 

Katy has been severly penalized for technicalities, causing ejections for playoffs more than once. I cannot recant all the details exactly, but the baseball team was kicked out of the playoffs because two players helped out in a youth baseball camp during the season, and then there was the T-shirt fiasco that involved Katy football before that.

If anything, katy wears a bullseye in the eyes of the UIL. 

For example:  

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 I see the sarcasm failed badly lol

[Peppermint Patty]

23 minutes ago, Brubaker said:

Does this indicate that the process was approved by the DEC and sent to the UIL for final sign off?  If so, how did it get approved at the district level?

Without the actual PAPF in font of us, we do not know what went wrong. It's all speculation at this point.

[bulldawg64]

The dogs will come back no worries here  have somthing to prove one game at a time

[NHSBulldogFan]

Well find out what kind of team Nederland has this week. As many have said the playoffs for Nederland start vs. Central this week

[Realville]

6 minutes ago, bulldawg64 said:

The dogs will come back no worries here  have somthing to prove one game at a time