UIL to send preseason 5A split to referendum

[WOSgrad]

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Splitting 5A is going to referendum ballot. That means supts will vote on it. If it passes, it will go int effect for 2018 realignment

[WOSgrad]

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But if it fails, it can't be presented again for three years, unless the council determines it's an emergency.

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[WOSgrad]

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Survey of 5A schools found roughly 50/50 split between those who supported splitting class before season vs. those who opposed.

[WOSgrad]

There won't be 6A split on the referendum.  Surveyed schools voted 3 to 1 ratio against.

[Hagar]

Will make for smaller Districts, and twice as many 5A teams in the playoffs.  Will help the smaller 5A's.  Good points & bad points, as always.  Works out okay in the lower Divisions.  

[NDOMAKONG]

1 hour ago, REBgp said:

Will make for smaller Districts, and twice as many 5A teams in the playoffs.  Will help the smaller 5A's.  Good points & bad points, as always.  Works out okay in the lower Divisions.  

It's a joke in the lower divisions where 4 teams go out of 5 and 6 team districts.   I hate it and hope it gets shot down

[CardinalBacker]

I vote "yes" so PAM can get back to losing to teams their own size. 

[Finesser]

^^^^Hater , CardinalBacker what is it to you and your lowly Cardinals , we havent blasted your team , WOS did that already , petition them lol

[robanadana]

I'm for it because of the disparity among some schools. No matter how you slice it, a school of Lumberton, Livingston or Ozen's size has little to no chance of competing against a 2000+ student school. Period. Second, if you made the cut at the 1050 - to 1100 range you bring a lot of similar sized schools into to play such as Huffman Hargrave and LCM. You wouldn't have a small 5A school being arbitrarily stuck into Div1 and having to play an on the bubble 6A school in the playoffs with no chance of winning. 1050 - 1600 pretty well puts all of our schools stuck in population decline in 5A Div 2, 1601 to 2100 Div1 with the growing powerhouses on the east side of Houston (like BH, NC, etc.). We wind up with districts consisting of 6 - 8 team combinations. Beaumont schools could and should realign their school zones to bring all three into the 5A but that ain't happening. Lastly, I know a lot of you hate the 4 team playoff designation but that will never change. It's about money and fits nicely into the UIL's narrative of playing football until Xmas. Besides, Texas is growing so fast they need to do this to accommodate the expansion. A good example is College Station creating two 5A schools out of the one 6A school (A&M Consolidated) they had. Better opportunities for the kids to compete. One caveat...if you want the district championship to mean something other than being a paper title, make the first round of the playoffs at home for that champion. Then you would have something.

[Finesser]

I'll disagree to a degree , to say that a smaller school has NO chance to compete against a bigger school is false , WOS , Silsbee , to name a few would be in the thick of 22-5A or 21-5A playoff race , whereas you had a team like Goose Creek Memorial that couldn't compete in 5A last year , let alone 6A , and would get smoked by a much smaller WOS , so that argument is SO overrated to me , IMO , yes depth does play a part at times , but it's ALL about talent , some have more than others , simple & plain

[SFA85]

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Hagar]

1 hour ago, NDOMAKONG said:

It's a joke in the lower divisions where 4 teams go out of 5 and 6 team districts.   I hate it and hope it gets shot down

Good point on the 4 team playoffs.  Realistically, imo, two teams would be better, and 3 at the most.

[robanadana]

29 minutes ago, Finesser said:

I'll disagree to a degree , to say that a smaller school has NO chance to compete against a bigger school is false , WOS , Silsbee , to name a few would be in the thick of 22-5A or 21-5A playoff race , whereas you had a team like Goose Creek Memorial that couldn't compete in 5A last year , let alone 6A , and would get smoked by a much smaller WOS , so that argument is SO overrated to me , IMO , yes depth does play a part at times , but it's ALL about talent , some have more than others , simple & plain

Day in and day out, Silsbee, WOS and all of these schools have no chance playing bigger classification schools on a regular basis. You just don't have enough kids to cover the positions without some kids going both ways...they will wear you out. Good example: WOS vs. Richmond Foster. Over the course of a season, the injuries, etc. rack up and you lose. Fair is fair. 

[The Icon]

IMO - it plays into the hands of people who are fans of participation trophies and ribbons. On the other hand, it evens out the playing field.

People will argue population size until they are blue in the face. I'm not a huge proponent, but I can see why some smaller 5A schools would be in favor of it.

[robanadana]

Not sure I consider it participation trophies and ribbons, just fairness and opportunity to compete for all the kids. If I go solely on that thought process, why not combine all the 1A through 4A classifications into just one division and not two? Why have 1A through 6A divisions, why not just 4A like it used to be? Texas has more than doubled in size and number of kids and I fully believe it is the opportunity for them to compete, not whether we make a super duper team out of Orange County and whip everyone's arse (we already have that in WOS). I'm glad my grandchildren are at a 3A school and will get the opportunity to participate rather than a 6A school and have no chance. They don't need a trophy,just the opportunity to earn one. Just my thoughts.

[robanadana]

2 hours ago, Finesser said:

I'll disagree to a degree , to say that a smaller school has NO chance to compete against a bigger school is false , WOS , Silsbee , to name a few would be in the thick of 22-5A or 21-5A playoff race , whereas you had a team like Goose Creek Memorial that couldn't compete in 5A last year , let alone 6A , and would get smoked by a much smaller WOS , so that argument is SO overrated to me , IMO , yes depth does play a part at times , but it's ALL about talent , some have more than others , simple & plain

You're not talking apples and apples my friend. GCM is a poor example of what I'm talking about and I'm willing to bet they get their act together in the future and start winning some games. Look at the average of teams...you probably have 50 seniors on your varsity alone. Big 5A. Livingston and Lumberton both probably had only 30 players on the sideline period. I think we suit up 40 on varsity. Long run small schools can't compete with that. Barbers Hill has enough money and is growing fast enough to go and buy the top coach in Texas. Can't compete with that. I know all you PA folks felt that when you were in 6A playing the GPNS of the world and going 3 - 7. Glad you're in the district but you're proving my point.

[The Icon]

22 minutes ago, robanadana said:

Not sure I consider it participation trophies and ribbons, just fairness and opportunity to compete for all the kids. If I go solely on that thought process, why not combine all the 1A through 4A classifications into just one division and not two? Why have 1A through 6A divisions, why not just 4A like it used to be? Texas has more than doubled in size and number of kids and I fully believe it is the opportunity for them to compete, not whether we make a super duper team out of Orange County and whip everyone's arse (we already have that in WOS). I'm glad my grandchildren are at a 3A school and will get the opportunity to participate rather than a 6A school and have no chance. They don't need a trophy,just the opportunity to earn one. Just my thoughts.

You're not incorrect - I definitely see your side of things. 

I think there's already been a thread about what would happen if you combined some local schools: Ned/PNG, WOS/LCM, Central/Ozen, OF/BC, Lumberton/Silsbee...etc

 

[Hagar]

6 minutes ago, robanadana said:

You're not talking apples and apples my friend. GCM is a poor example of what I'm talking about and I'm willing to bet they get their act together in the future and start winning some games. Look at the average of teams...you probably have 50 seniors on your varsity alone. Big 5A. Livingston and Lumberton both probably had only 30 players on the sideline period. I think we suit up 40 on varsity. Long run small schools can't compete with that. Barbers Hill has enough money and is growing fast enough to go and buy the top coach in Texas. Can't compete with that. I know all you PA folks felt that when you were in 6A playing the GPNS of the world and going 3 - 7. Glad you're in the district but you're proving my point.

You're right.  When numbers are relatively even, it levels the field.  What each school/community does with those numbers, makes the difference.

[WOSgrad]

3 hours ago, robanadana said:

One caveat...if you want the district championship to mean something other than being a paper title, make the first round of the playoffs at home for that champion. Then you would have something.

Actually, that was another matter before the Policy Committee today. Since (I believe 2014) the UIL has been using an "experiment" in 6A where the Division 1 #1 hosts at their home stadium the bi-district game against the Division 1 #2 from the other district.  

They saw the need to tweak that because that was resulting in teams finishing third in their district hosting games against teams that finished second.  So the tweak, will be that the ability to host will be determined by district finish rather than whether or not they are the #1 or #2 seed in their particular division.

I can see everyone starting with that with the 2018 realignment.

[Guest ECBucFan]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[SFA85]

1 hour ago, robanadana said:

You're not talking apples and apples my friend. GCM is a poor example of what I'm talking about and I'm willing to bet they get their act together in the future and start winning some games. Look at the average of teams...you probably have 50 seniors on your varsity alone. Big 5A. Livingston and Lumberton both probably had only 30 players on the sideline period. I think we suit up 40 on varsity. Long run small schools can't compete with that. Barbers Hill has enough money and is growing fast enough to go and buy the top coach in Texas. Can't compete with that. I know all you PA folks felt that when you were in 6A playing the GPNS of the world and going 3 - 7. Glad you're in the district but you're proving my point.

The only quantifiable benefit to PA playing down is saving on diesel.  This year's team may have eeked out a playoff spot in 6A and who knows what happens.  But those who whine in favor of numbers don't know of all the 3500+ schools in the state with inept programs.  They don't realize that half of those gaudy numbers are girls.  Gimmie a strong 22 plus subs and I can beat anybody.  Hell, WO-S is the shining example of excellence despite dwindling numbers based on a flawed system of using test scores to gauge student success.......

[Guest Aledoalumni]

 I would like to see what the split would look like. Aledo(1548) has played bigger schools such as John Tyler (2000), Temple(2027), Abilene Cooper(2044) and Lake Ridge(1938) the past two seasons and it has been tough. I know it is odd seeing Aledo(1548) go D1 while a team like Cedar Park(1847) go D2. Not taking anything away from Cedar Park but if they go D1 not sure how their history turns out(state finalist in '14 and won state '15 in D2). 

[Cougar14.2]

2 hours ago, WinterIsComing1 said:

 I would like to see what the split would look like. Aledo(1548) has played bigger schools such as John Tyler (2000), Temple(2027), Abilene Cooper(2044) and Lake Ridge(1938) the past two seasons and it has been tough. I know it is odd seeing Aledo(1548) go D1 while a team like Cedar Park(1847) go D2. Not taking anything away from Cedar Park but if they go D1 not sure how their history turns out(state finalist in '14 and won state '15 in D2). 

Cedar Park is on the verge of going D2 again with 1,949 this year too. I think the postseason split effects 6A more than 5A due to sheer numbers but last year for Crosby to have an enrollment of 1,668 and to be playing Ridge Point with 2,348 in the D2 playoffs is a tough situation. Crazy that Ridge Point will most likely go undefeated during the regular season and be a 6A-D1 rep one season after that. I think they should split the divisions in preseason and increase the deltas as the classifications rise but then what you would end up with is one out of whack division in 6A-D1 instead of four out of whack divisions which kind of make it more fair in general.  

[WOS36]

20 hours ago, robanadana said:

Day in and day out, Silsbee, WOS and all of these schools have no chance playing bigger classification schools on a regular basis. You just don't have enough kids to cover the positions without some kids going both ways...they will wear you out. Good example: WOS vs. Richmond Foster. Over the course of a season, the injuries, etc. rack up and you lose. Fair is fair. 

I wouldn't say that anything can happen in any giving point look at 5a Nederland WOS beat them 42 to O

[Cougar14.2]

1 hour ago, WOS36 said:

I wouldn't say that anything can happen in any giving point look at 5a Nederland WOS beat them 42 to O

You say that because you're a WOS fan. People said the same thing about George Ranch. GR won the 5A-D1 state title game 56-0 last year, they were 41-3 over the last three seasons playing nothing but 6A's in non-district play and had only lost one of those games the last three years. Their first year in 6A when they have to play those teams every week they're 4-3 with losses by 14, 17 and 28. Their last two games in district play are against Pearland and 7-0 Alief Taylor. Completely different situation having to get up for one of those games any given night versus having to grind though them every given night which is why you rarely see the good teams schedule down.