Hardin-Jefferson 17 Liberty 14/FINAL

[MoFo]

4 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

I'll be honest.. Liberty definitely had a good enough team to win this game.  In all honesty, they probably should've won the game.  Let me run some reasons by you that may have contributed to the close game and eventual loss.

Last week Liberty joined WOS in a ranking of some kind...which is most definitely a first for these Liberty kids.  Then...a buddy of mine told me that Liberty's town "fair" was last week and that the kids didn't even go to school half of the week.  In which case several of the kids most definitely slept in every day they were out...and probably stayed up late.  Then I see this guy coming on this site and talking about the Liberty/WOS game... I'm not saying that all of the kids were overlooking HJ.  I'm not saying the coaches were overlooking HJ.  But...somebody was.  And if one person was, chances are there were a few more. 

That is a lot of distractions for a bunch of 17 year old kids.  And to be honest...that's why I picked HJ to win in my pickems.  Not that I'm the guru of predicting high school football games.  But my reasons panned out in this instance.

Seriously?????? Yes you are right because NO other 17 year old kid in the world has a distraction as rough as a town fair or sleeping in late... that is the dumbest excuse I have yet to see on this board.

 

[oldschool2]

6 minutes ago, MoFo said:

Seriously?????? Yes you are right because NO other 17 year old kid in the world has a distraction as rough as a town fair or sleeping in late... that is the dumbest excuse I have yet to see on this board.

 

 

Listen, guy.  I seriously couldn't care less who won or lost this game.  I'm not making an excuse for anyone... In my opinion, Liberty was looking past you guys.  Why?  Who knows.  I do feel like they were distracted (most likely).  They still should've remained focused if they wanted to win.  I don't care either way.

I will say again...I feel as though Liberty would win if they played again.  But they won't.  I had a buddy at the game and he told me Liberty had 3 or 4 unforced turnovers.  Including one that gave HJ the ball in the last minute.  I was told Liberty had a few hundred yards on the ground but kept coughing the ball up... so something happened.  Again... I don't care.  I picked HJ in my pickems.  All I did was give an explanation as to why.

[MoFo]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

Listen, guy.  I seriously couldn't care less who won or lost this game.  I'm not making an excuse for anyone... In my opinion, Liberty was looking past you guys.  Why?  Who knows.  I do feel like they were distracted (most likely).  They still should've remained focused if they wanted to win.  I don't care either way.

I will say again...I feel as though Liberty would win if they played again.  But they won't.  I had a buddy at the game and he told me Liberty had 3 or 4 unforced turnovers.  Including one that gave HJ the ball in the last minute.  I was told Liberty had a few hundred yards on the ground but kept coughing the ball up... so something happened.  Again... I don't care.  I picked HJ in my pickems.  All I did was give an explanation as to why.

Wow did your friend tell you the final score was 17-14 HJ won as far as the outcome of them playing 100 more times, I guess we will never know will we?

[oldschool2]

5 minutes ago, MoFo said:

Wow did your friend tell you the final score was 17-14 HJ won as far as the outcome of them playing 100 more times, I guess we will never know will we?

 

....I know what the score was...  Are you slow or something?  I KNOW HJ WON.  I ALSO PICKED HJ TO WIN.  I also know that the better team doesn't always win.  The game could have just as easily gone the other way.  It is possible to have control of the game and not win in the end.  I was told that HJ couldn't keep Liberty from moving the ball...but they kept putting it on the ground.  I don't know..I wasn't there.  Doesn't matter..  Yes I know HJ won.  We will never know what the results will be if they played again..because it won't happen.  Like I said already.

All we can do is speculate based on scores from the same opponent.  Which doesn't always prove anything...but I'm betting that Liberty plays WOS a lot better than HJ did.

smh...

 

[MoFo]

25 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

....I know what the score was...  Are you slow or something?  I KNOW HJ WON.  I ALSO PICKED HJ TO WIN.  I also know that the better team doesn't always win.  The game could have just as easily gone the other way.  It is possible to have control of the game and not win in the end.  I was told that HJ couldn't keep Liberty from moving the ball...but they kept putting it on the ground.  I don't know..I wasn't there.  Doesn't matter..  Yes I know HJ won.  We will never know what the results will be if they played again..because it won't happen.  Like I said already.

All we can do is speculate based on scores from the same opponent.  Which doesn't always prove anything...but I'm betting that Liberty plays WOS a lot better than HJ did.

smh...

 

If HJ had 17 and Liberty had 14 that is easy to conclude that HJ was the better team 

[WOS99]

Turnovers are as much a part of the game as touchdowns. People act like they are acts of God. No one would ever say, "We outplayed them but they had four TDs and we had none." The ability to hang on to the ball is as important as speed or size. So isn't the team who won the turnover battle - and the game - the better team?

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, WOS99 said:

Turnovers are as much a part of the game as touchdowns. People act like they are acts of God. No one would ever say, "We outplayed them but they had four TDs and we had none." The ability to hang on to the ball is as important as speed or size. So isn't the team who won the turnover battle - and the game - the better team?

No you're right.  Hanging on to the ball is part of the game.  But I know for a certainty that every year a team wins a state championship that may not be the best team.  Teams that shouldn't win find a way to win all the time.  That's the beauty of competition..knowing that it's possible to win.

But here's what I expect from now on.  When any single person says "we should've won" or "we could've won".. I expect everyone else to say "nope.  That team was just better"

[LOKI]

Some times the defense has something to do with not being able to hang on to the ball. Though we as fans may not notice it from the stands.

[JB78]

31 minutes ago, LOKI said:

Some times the defense has something to do with not being able to hang on to the ball. Though we as fans may not notice it from the stands.

You are correct sir ..... a lot of teams practice ball stripping regularly as part of their warmup or conditioning drills, but some don't, and it shows right along with those tackling drills they neglect. 

[XX Man]

If HJ did this to Liberty, the coming Friday night is going to be a nightmare for Liberty.

[setxnative96]

11 hours ago, MoFo said:

If HJ had 17 and Liberty had 14 that is easy to conclude that HJ was the better team 

lmao Not at all.

[aTmfan06]

14 hours ago, MoFo said:

If HJ had 17 and Liberty had 14 that is easy to conclude that HJ was the better team 

Wrong 

[idk]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 7:50 PM, demons95 said:

If Shepherd lost to Buna you would have your hands full HJ. Again the score of the Liberty game did not indicate the domination nor did the score of the Buna game. Good luck and keep sleeping on them Hawks. Strap up next week against WOS, not sure you have an idea what ya bout get into. 8-2 don't look that bad. 

Shepherd has not played Buna, If you read this board Shepherd has not played one single team this year that was any good. Our record is a hoax. So please everyone do not put Shepherd in the same sentence with the teams of this district as they are not worthy. lol.

[MoFo]

13 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

No you're right.  Hanging on to the ball is part of the game.  But I know for a certainty that every year a team wins a state championship that may not be the best team.  Teams that shouldn't win find a way to win all the time.  That's the beauty of competition..knowing that it's possible to win.

But here's what I expect from now on.  When any single person says "we should've won" or "we could've won".. I expect everyone else to say "nope.  That team was just better"

100% agree, on that game night that the winning team was better.

 

[MoFo]

I stand by my quote, any team that wins any competition is the better team that night. Sure they may play 20 more times and lose everyone of them but on THAT night in THAT game they were the better team. Turn overs, ref's, crowd noise, weather, injuries, or athletes that are "distracted" are all part of ANY competition and both teams are faced with it on any given game. As football fans we all have that small seed of hope for the big underdogs and that very reason is because we all know that on any given night during any give mismatch that the underdog team has that chance of being the better team that night. That chance of the left uppercut from no where, or the rookie 9th hole hitter with the grand slam, the Cinderella story winning the Masters. It happens and as a team or competitor that loses you brush yourself off and say they were the better team that night. 

[idk]

19 minutes ago, MoFo said:

I stand by my quote, any team that wins any competition is the better team that night. Sure they may play 20 more times and lose everyone of them but on THAT night in THAT game they were the better team. Turn overs, ref's, crowd noise, weather, injuries, or athletes that are "distracted" are all part of ANY competition and both teams are faced with it on any given game. As football fans we all have that small seed of hope for the big underdogs and that very reason is because we all know that on any given night during any give mismatch that the underdog team has that chance of being the better team that night. That chance of the left uppercut from no where, or the rookie 9th hole hitter with the grand slam, the Cinderella story winning the Masters. It happens and as a team or competitor that loses you brush yourself off and say they were the better team that night. 

Good post. On any given night any team can be beat. Each teams records matter, but their are just some teams that match up better against certain team. Also, I hear a bunch on here takj about a team full of Athletes, sometimes I will take a team full of heart and toughness over those Athletes. Who will win most of the time (The team of Athletes) but on that very special night in the playoffs a stud team will go down. So on that very night the better team won.

[WOSgrad]

This discussion has missed one potential element that contributed to the loss....that Hardin-Jefferson might just be that good.  I know, folks want to point to the 62-0 loss the week before but the fact is that WO-S has done that to everybody that they have played so far.  H-J is a team that was able to improve over last year when they were adjusting to a new coach (and yet were not that many points away from reversing their fortunes last season) and had a quality win over Jasper coming into this game.  Sure, if you would have asked me on last Friday morning, I would have chosen Liberty but I can't say I was surprised about the outcome.  In fact, I had warned earlier in the week of this result as it appeared that they were overlooking a team that I felt was much closer in quality to them than they did.

And this is not to in any way meant to dismiss the quality of Liberty.  They are a really good team who have done things that a Panther team has not done in a while and they have deserved the notoriety that they received.  In fact, I am kinda disappointed with those, both locally and across the state, who going into last week were so high on Liberty yet have jumped off of the bandwagon with reckless abandon after a 3 point loss.

But to dismiss this as a "fluke" is doing a bit of disservice.

[XX Man]

I am just saying that Liberty is in for a thrashing, this Friday.

[USC 35]

11 hours ago, setxnative96 said:

lmao Not at all.

They where last Friday, and that's what counts.

[setxnative96]

8 hours ago, USC 35 said:

They where last Friday, and that's what counts.

Dont agree that they were the better team. 

[WOSgrad]

2 hours ago, setxnative96 said:

Dont agree that they were the better team. 

The scoreboard disagreed with you.

[aTmfan06]

4 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

The scoreboard disagreed with you.

So I'm sure in all the years that you have rooted for WOS that they have never loss to a team where in your mind you thought WOS still had the better team? Please lie and tell me you have never had that opinion...

[WOSgrad]

1 hour ago, aTmfan06 said:

So I'm sure in all the years that you have rooted for WOS that they have never loss to a team where in your mind you thought WOS still had the better team? Please lie and tell me you have never had that opinion...

Of course, WO-S has lost games I thought they should have won.  But in those games, just like when they have won, the final arbitor of who is the better team is the scoreboard and I have many times said so following a Mustang loss.  The rules regarding how you score, how many points you score for a particular act, how the other teams get the ball from you, things that can prevent you getting points for a score have all been in place and have been universally accepted by all who have participated as the determination of the best team for longer than either you or I have been alive.

I've seen many a game where the "favorite" didn't win, yet in none of those games has the result stated on the scoreboard been disallowed by a sanctioning body simply because the "favorite" didn't win.  Have you?

[idk]

56 minutes ago, aTmfan06 said:

So I'm sure in all the years that you have rooted for WOS that they have never loss to a team where in your mind you thought WOS still had the better team? Please lie and tell me you have never had that opinion...

Like I have said many times, on paper Liberty is the better team. But what the paper cannot tell you (on any particular night) is who the better team is then. Yes fumbles, miss tackles, refs and all other sorts of things come into play. The team on that particular night that can overcome these issues, their failures and still put more points on the board is the better team for that night. NO matter what every person thinks and NO matter what the paper says. Last Friday Night HJ was the better team. They put (3) more points on the board than Liberty did. Do I still think Liberty is the better overall team, Yes but not last Friday Night. That's why you play the game. If the paper or fans dictated who the better team was there would be no reason to play the games and spend that kind of money on travel.

[sahen]

I went to this game the other day. I pull for Liberty, but like to sit on the visiting side (better food and typically better seats). Anyway, I sat up next an old coach who was a pleasure to visit with. I never got his name, but his son is a coach on the HJ staff and he coached the 1985 Electra team that won the state title.

In my opinion, HJ won that game due to some great coaching. HJ basically wanted to wear Liberty down and was hoping for a few turnovers. It felt like HJ had the ball the entire game. They got more than a few turnovers and their last couple of possessions Liberty was just too tired to stop them. On the other side, I am unsure what Liberty was thinking on offense. Honestly, they had 0 reason to throw the ball and basically gave it way a few times whether that was through throwing an INT or killing their own drives. I think the Liberty coaches were trying to force the passing game when they didn't need too. That coach and I were wondering why Liberty wouldn't just keep running the trap. Seemed like they got 5 yards all night on it. Needless to say, it was a fantastic game and great display of coaching and determination from HJ. Their kids were ready to play and though they seemed undersized and a bit less athletic they were the better team that night. They had a great plan and executed it to near perfection. Also, if their field goal kicker would have been playing for the Arizona Cardinals or the Seattle Seahawks he would have saved us all some time back on our lives from that Sunday night snooze fest of missed field goals.

Once again, just one man's opinion, but that's how I saw it. I would be interesting in watching these teams play again in the playoffs. I am unsure how the bracket would line up because if WOS is between them playing again that won't happen, but I think it would be another close well fought game.