WOS topic of conversation on 6A

[Spyder53]

10 hours ago, L-Train11 said:

I agree with you about the playoffs, but this year they wouldn't have had a competitive game in 22-5A either expect maybe PAM, and I even think they blow PNG out too after what they did to Nederland this year. They would easily run through the rest of our district

I've got to say first Congratulations to the Stangs and the Orange community on a job very well done. If WOS had 5A numbers they would be a force  in 5A. But in regards to the talent level @ PAM vs WOS . I'll quote Bum Phillips in talking about  the difference a coach makes." He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n." 

[Goblin]

16 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

WOS hasn't had a competitive game all year.  If they took PNG or Memorial's spot they would have at least had competitive games all the way through the year/playoffs.  That's the point I made earlier.  It's not that they couldn't beat any of them...it's the fact that they would have to play them all back to back to back games...They haven't even had to use their starters for an entire game a single time this year.

Last year they played a good team in a higher classification and took it on the chin.  The last time WOS had to play competitive games all the way through the playoffs they didn't make it out of the region.  I know this isn't the same WOS team...but if you can't see the difference in every playoff game being a dog fight, and every playoff game being a cakewalk then I don't know what to tell you.  It would make things different.

Whatever... I was there in 1985 when WOS was the smallest 5A school in the state and had Houston Yates tied 6-6 leading in penetrations mid-4th quarter. The same Yates that shutout Permian 37-0 in the State Finals. I was there in 2000 when WOS was one of the smallest 4A schools in the state and knocked off Friendswood, LaMarque and Calallen in succession before losing in the State Finals. WOS has no control over where the UIL places them but we've been in the gauntlet more than once.

[TxHoops]

7 hours ago, Goblin said:

Whatever... I was there in 1985 when WOS was the smallest 5A school in the state and had Houston Yates tied 6-6 leading in penetrations mid-4th quarter. The same Yates that shutout Permian 37-0 in the State Finals. I was there in 2000 when WOS was one of the smallest 4A schools in the state and knocked off Friendswood, LaMarque and Calallen in succession before losing in the State Finals. WOS has no control over where the UIL places them but we've been in the gauntlet more than once.

Preach!

[Bulldog92]

I would argue that those 80's WOS teams were better just because those dudes were grown men that had less to do, so they could spend more time on football and in the weight room. Kids in general aren't in that kind of shape, so it created less competition for this version of the Mustangs, who were clearly in better condition and worked harder than kids at other schools. I'm not throwing shade at you guys at all. It's just that football was a lot more physical across the board back then. What do you guys think?

[kicker]

2 hours ago, Bulldog92 said:

I would argue that those 80's WOS teams were better just because those dudes were grown men that had less to do, so they could spend more time on football and in the weight room. Kids in general aren't in that kind of shape, so it created less competition for this version of the Mustangs, who were clearly in better condition and worked harder than kids at other schools. I'm not throwing shade at you guys at all. It's just that football was a lot more physical across the board back then. What do you guys think?

That's actually a great argument. Of course we'll never know how each would compare with each other but I see your point. They didn't have IPads, cell phones or PS4's back then. 

[ctown81]

Depth would be too big of an issue. The defense would be wore out by halftime. Now if it were a video game where you could turn off fatigue, that Defense can play with anyone in the state but even with that, the offense cannot put up the same numers fatigue or not.

[griff]

7 hours ago, kicker said:

That's actually a great argument. Of course we'll never know how each would compare with each other but I see your point. They didn't have IPads, cell phones or PS4's back then. 

But Coach Thompson's workout regimen and practices have NOT changed since the 80's. 

[griff]

On 12/16/2016 at 8:07 AM, oldschool2 said:

WOS hasn't had a competitive game all year.  If they took PNG or Memorial's spot they would have at least had competitive games all the way through the year/playoffs.  That's the point I made earlier.  It's not that they couldn't beat any of them...it's the fact that they would have to play them all back to back to back games...They haven't even had to use their starters for an entire game a single time this year.

Last year they played a good team in a higher classification and took it on the chin.  The last time WOS had to play competitive games all the way through the playoffs they didn't make it out of the region.  I know this isn't the same WOS team...but if you can't see the difference in every playoff game being a dog fight, and every playoff game being a cakewalk then I don't know what to tell you.  It would make things different.

The only legitimate competition WO-S faced was in the state championship game. If WO-S had played in the local 5A district, I believe they would have won every game. They would not have pulled starters in some of them, but same results nonetheless. We saw glimpses of what would have been based on the game against Nederland and the scrimmages against Vidor and PNG. Concerning the loss to Richmond Foster...that wasn't just any 5A team. Foster lost to last year's state champion by only 7 points and they made it to the 5th round in this year's playoffs. They were one of the best in all of 5A for the last two seasons and would have whipped everyone in 22-5A. I'm not one to say WO-S could win 5A (or 6A, which is silly), but I do think they would at least make a strong run in the 5A playoffs and probably lose in the late rounds. The point being made about WO-S' depth would not be the reason - not THIS year. WO-S had 39 kids on the roster. Only one of them saw significant playing time on offense and defense. There were 3-4 others who played on one side and saw occasional spot duty on the other side of the ball. Depth on THIS year's team was a strength.  

After watching the state championship games over the weekend, I can conclude with confidence there is no way WO-S could beat DeSoto and would get blown out by Lake Travis. They would make a competitive opponent for Highland Park and Temple. Probably lose to The Woodlands and Cibolo Steele. But, in the end, who cares. We are assigned to 4AD2 for good reason and all of this 5A conjecture is just fantasy football. A cool compliment was made by Rick Renner saying WO-S was "the best pound-for-pound high school football team in Texas." It's an honor to be thought of in that way. 

[kicker]

3 hours ago, griff said:

But Coach Thompson's workout regimen and practices have NOT changed since the 80's. 

Another valid argument! Lol

[ctown81]

3 hours ago, griff said:

The only legitimate competition WO-S faced was in the state championship game. If WO-S had played in the local 5A district, I believe they would have won every game. They would not have pulled starters in some of them, but same results nonetheless. We saw glimpses of what would have been based on the game against Nederland and the scrimmages against Vidor and PNG. Concerning the loss to Richmond Foster...that wasn't just any 5A team. Foster lost to last year's state champion by only 7 points and they made it to the 5th round in this year's playoffs. They were one of the best in all of 5A for the last two seasons and would have whipped everyone in 22-5A. I'm not one to say WO-S could win 5A (or 6A, which is silly), but I do think they would at least make a strong run in the 5A playoffs and probably lose in the late rounds. The point being made about WO-S' depth would not be the reason - not THIS year. WO-S had 39 kids on the roster. Only one of them saw significant playing time on offense and defense. There were 3-4 others who played on one side and saw occasional spot duty on the other side of the ball. Depth on THIS year's team was a strength.  

After watching the state championship games over the weekend, I can conclude with confidence there is no way WO-S could beat DeSoto and would get blown out by Lake Travis. They would make a competitive opponent for Highland Park and Temple. Probably lose to The Woodlands and Cibolo Steele. But, in the end, who cares. We are assigned to 4AD2 for good reason and all of this 5A conjecture is just fantasy football. A cool compliment was made by Rick Renner saying WO-S was "the best pound-for-pound high school football team in Texas." It's an honor to be thought of in that way. 

I would love to see them play an East tx schedule. Not sure they would have went undefeated playing tough teams week in and week out. It takes a toll. 

[griff]

6 hours ago, ctown81 said:

I would love to see them play an East tx schedule. Not sure they would have went undefeated playing tough teams week in and week out. It takes a toll. 

It's funny you say this because Coach Thompson has recently tried to schedule preseason games with Carthage, Kigore, Gilmer, and a few other yearly playoff teams. With all of the trouble we've had to find opponents, Coach Thompson had to start looking outside not only our area, but our region. That is why the Kennedale match up was made. When Coach Thompson made contact with the Kilgore HC, he was open to the idea. Shortly afterward,the Kilgore HC had a chat with Coach Surrat who told him that WO-S was the hardest hitting team he had ever played. The next time Kilgore's coach spoke with Coach Thompson, he declined the invitation. Interesting, isn't it? That "week in and week out" and "takes a toll" works both ways. WO-S would have gone undefeated in your district this year and last year, too. 

[3rdone]

14 hours ago, griff said:

The only legitimate competition WO-S faced was in the state championship game. If WO-S had played in the local 5A district, I believe they would have won every game. They would not have pulled starters in some of them, but same results nonetheless. We saw glimpses of what would have been based on the game against Nederland and the scrimmages against Vidor and PNG. Concerning the loss to Richmond Foster...that wasn't just any 5A team. Foster lost to last year's state champion by only 7 points and they made it to the 5th round in this year's playoffs. They were one of the best in all of 5A for the last two seasons and would have whipped everyone in 22-5A. I'm not one to say WO-S could win 5A (or 6A, which is silly), but I do think they would at least make a strong run in the 5A playoffs and probably lose in the late rounds. The point being made about WO-S' depth would not be the reason - not THIS year. WO-S had 39 kids on the roster. Only one of them saw significant playing time on offense and defense. There were 3-4 others who played on one side and saw occasional spot duty on the other side of the ball. Depth on THIS year's team was a strength.  

After watching the state championship games over the weekend, I can conclude with confidence there is no way WO-S could beat DeSoto and would get blown out by Lake Travis. They would make a competitive opponent for Highland Park and Temple. Probably lose to The Woodlands and Cibolo Steele. But, in the end, who cares. We are assigned to 4AD2 for good reason and all of this 5A conjecture is just fantasy football. A cool compliment was made by Rick Renner saying WO-S was "the best pound-for-pound high school football team in Texas." It's an honor to be thought of in that way. 

I kept saying that THIS team..not last year, not next year...but THIS team, THIS year, can play with ANYONE in the state. People blow off calprep predictions but YES...it has us losing to Desoto...it has us losing to Lake Travis. However, it does not have them being blown out either. We can laugh at these websites, but there are a lot more metrics in that than a few of us online giving one opinion or another. It has them beating Highland park, Temple and Steele. Some people take it as a personal attack on their intellect on the game...but we're just having the conversation and the ONLY reason I hear is WOS doesn't have the depth. At no point in history has WOS EVER had exceptional depth...NEVER. You just can't get enough kids to go through that program and stick it out.

When I got to college to play football I thought practice was a joke compared to what I had already been through. But other kids from those SAME schools mentioned above were huffin' and puffin'...and these were supposed to be studs..ON SCHOLARSHIP D1 FOOTBALL!! Those who haven't been through the WOS program don't understand one bit what it's like! if you have...then you understand just HOW special this team is because you know what those before them went through and still didn't get it done...and it's been since the 80's since they done it 3 straight years. This is a 5A team parading around like they are 4A. You don't hang 70 on an undefeated team in the semi's (21 called back) and then play the worst game you've played in 3 years and beat a 1-loss team 24-6 and the other team doesn't score an offensive TD...That game was never in doubt no matter what that score says. And from people are saying, "Sweetwater played the game of their lives!!" and still only had 148 total yards!! LOL

[ctown81]

15 hours ago, griff said:

It's funny you say this because Coach Thompson has recently tried to schedule preseason games with Carthage, Kigore, Gilmer, and a few other yearly playoff teams. With all of the trouble we've had to find opponents, Coach Thompson had to start looking outside not only our area, but our region. That is why the Kennedale match up was made. When Coach Thompson made contact with the Kilgore HC, he was open to the idea. Shortly afterward,the Kilgore HC had a chat with Coach Surrat who told him that WO-S was the hardest hitting team he had ever played. The next time Kilgore's coach spoke with Coach Thompson, he declined the invitation. Interesting, isn't it? That "week in and week out" and "takes a toll" works both ways. WO-S would have gone undefeated in your district this year and last year, too. 

How do you know the conversation Surratt and the Kilgore coach had? Not calling you a liar but curious about the source. Sounds odd that Kilgore would care about a hard hitting team in the preseason. I can only speak for Carthage, but I doubt we will see that matchup in the regular season due to the fact that Carthage doesn't need it since the competition is stiffer in the area and they can schedule closer teams with no travel issues. I'm not convinced WOS would have went undefeated in Carthage's district.

I will say this, tough preseason or not, this was going to be WOS year. 

[ctown81]

11 hours ago, 3rdone said:

I kept saying that THIS team..not last year, not next year...but THIS team, THIS year, can play with ANYONE in the state. People blow off calprep predictions but YES...it has us losing to Desoto...it has us losing to Lake Travis. However, it does not have them being blown out either. We can laugh at these websites, but there are a lot more metrics in that than a few of us online giving one opinion or another. It has them beating Highland park, Temple and Steele. Some people take it as a personal attack on their intellect on the game...but we're just having the conversation and the ONLY reason I hear is WOS doesn't have the depth. At no point in history has WOS EVER had exceptional depth...NEVER. You just can't get enough kids to go through that program and stick it out.

When I got to college to play football I thought practice was a joke compared to what I had already been through. But other kids from those SAME schools mentioned above were huffin' and puffin'...and these were supposed to be studs..ON SCHOLARSHIP D1 FOOTBALL!! Those who haven't been through the WOS program don't understand one bit what it's like! if you have...then you understand just HOW special this team is because you know what those before them went through and still didn't get it done...and it's been since the 80's since they done it 3 straight years. This is a 5A team parading around like they are 4A. You don't hang 70 on an undefeated team in the semi's (21 called back) and then play the worst game you've played in 3 years and beat a 1-loss team 24-6 and the other team doesn't score an offensive TD...That game was never in doubt no matter what that score says. And from people are saying, "Sweetwater played the game of their lives!!" and still only had 148 total yards!! LOL

No one questions the defense but I just don't see this offense being elite enough to hang with the larger classifications.

[griff]

12 minutes ago, ctown81 said:

How do you know the conversation Surratt and the Kilgore coach had? Not calling you a liar but curious about the source. Sounds odd that Kilgore would care about a hard hitting team in the preseason. I can only speak for Carthage, but I doubt we will see that matchup in the regular season due to the fact that Carthage doesn't need it since the competition is stiffer in the area and they can schedule closer teams with no travel issues. I'm not convinced WOS would have went undefeated in Carthage's district.

I will say this, tough preseason or not, this was going to be WOS year. 

My source came straight from the horse's mouth. The Kilgore HC changed his mind after talking to Surrat. THIS year, yeah WO-S would have gone undefeated in your district, especially seeing how Carthage squeaked by Silsbee. This year's east Texas playoff reps were underwhelming. 

[griff]

21 minutes ago, ctown81 said:

No one questions the defense but I just don't see this offense being elite enough to hang with the larger classifications.

If the only game you watched from WO-S was the SC game, then I can see how you would think that. That was an anomaly because of decent defensive play by Sweetwater, two turnovers deep in the red zone, and our QB having an off day with his throwing. The offense averaged about 50 points per game. You also have to consider our excellent special teams play. It's all part of the game. Again, I don't believe WO-S could have won 5A, but to say they didn't have the offense to hang with them is short-sighted. 

[ctown81]

1 hour ago, griff said:

If the only game you watched from WO-S was the SC game, then I can see how you would think that. That was an anomaly because of decent defensive play by Sweetwater, two turnovers deep in the red zone, and our QB having an off day with his throwing. The offense averaged about 50 points per game. You also have to consider our excellent special teams play. It's all part of the game. Again, I don't believe WO-S could have won 5A, but to say they didn't have the offense to hang with them is short-sighted. 

No I also saw the Kennedale game.  Offense is very good but like I said not elite. As for Carthage squeaking past Silsbee. Carthage folk all said the same, we could lose first round or win state. The team that played Silsbee, was always talented but not playing to their potential. I began to after that game. If i'm not mistaken I think Surratt sent them home on that monday in frustration. This is a young team that had to grow up fast. How can you call an area underwhelming who won a state title? How many well balanced teams dis WOS face?

[3rdone]

5 hours ago, ctown81 said:

No I also saw the Kennedale game.  Offense is very good but like I said not elite. As for Carthage squeaking past Silsbee. Carthage folk all said the same, we could lose first round or win state. The team that played Silsbee, was always talented but not playing to their potential. I began to after that game. If i'm not mistaken I think Surratt sent them home on that monday in frustration. This is a young team that had to grow up fast. How can you call an area underwhelming who won a state title? How many well balanced teams dis WOS face?

so leading a semi final team in kennedale 38-0 before they scored a single point isn't good enough? the defense alone would keep them in games.  the only elite offense i saw was lake travis and aledo.

again you have to look at it from a different perspective. you don't have to beat ALL of 5A...you just have to make it out of your region. WOS would have done that this year.

carthage had ALL season to play to their potential. they had a 4 pt win, a 2 pt. win. and a 1 pt. win in the playoffs...that WAS their potential. Silsbee was good... don't try to say carthage was head and shoulders better and carthage hadn't reached their potential 13 games into the season lol. However WOS was 50-2 "better"

[mat]

Just to reiterate what others have said; you would be hard pressed to find another team in the state as conditioned as WOS. I think I saw a half a dozen players running down sixteenth street yesterday, a week after a state championship.

WOS had more depth than they may have ever had.

[ctown81]

5 hours ago, 3rdone said:

so leading a semi final team in kennedale 38-0 before they scored a single point isn't good enough? the defense alone would keep them in games.  the only elite offense i saw was lake travis and aledo.

again you have to look at it from a different perspective. you don't have to beat ALL of 5A...you just have to make it out of your region. WOS would have done that this year.

carthage had ALL season to play to their potential. they had a 4 pt win, a 2 pt. win. and a 1 pt. win in the playoffs...that WAS their potential. Silsbee was good... don't try to say carthage was head and shoulders better and carthage hadn't reached their potential 13 games into the season lol. However WOS was 50-2 "better"

Who said head and shoulders better? Carthage was a struggling team when they played Silsbee. How can u downplay a state champ?  Carthage just wins. Ask 2010 Brownwood and 15 Navasota. You act as if it's an insult that I said WOS may have not gone undefeated.  State titles is all that matters and you got one. 

[kicker]

On 12/22/2016 at 11:00 PM, 3rdone said:

I kept saying that THIS team..not last year, not next year...but THIS team, THIS year, can play with ANYONE in the state. People blow off calprep predictions but YES...it has us losing to Desoto...it has us losing to Lake Travis. However, it does not have them being blown out either. We can laugh at these websites, but there are a lot more metrics in that than a few of us online giving one opinion or another. It has them beating Highland park, Temple and Steele. Some people take it as a personal attack on their intellect on the game...but we're just having the conversation and the ONLY reason I hear is WOS doesn't have the depth. At no point in history has WOS EVER had exceptional depth...NEVER. You just can't get enough kids to go through that program and stick it out.

When I got to college to play football I thought practice was a joke compared to what I had already been through. But other kids from those SAME schools mentioned above were huffin' and puffin'...and these were supposed to be studs..ON SCHOLARSHIP D1 FOOTBALL!! Those who haven't been through the WOS program don't understand one bit what it's like! if you have...then you understand just HOW special this team is because you know what those before them went through and still didn't get it done...and it's been since the 80's since they done it 3 straight years. This is a 5A team parading around like they are 4A. You don't hang 70 on an undefeated team in the semi's (21 called back) and then play the worst game you've played in 3 years and beat a 1-loss team 24-6 and the other team doesn't score an offensive TD...That game was never in doubt no matter what that score says. And from people are saying, "Sweetwater played the game of their lives!!" and still only had 148 total yards!! LOL

Exactly!!!! My first college practice I was thinking the same thing!!!!!! Like what is this????? Lol

[kicker]

On 12/22/2016 at 0:03 PM, ctown81 said:

No I also saw the Kennedale game.  Offense is very good but like I said not elite. As for Carthage squeaking past Silsbee. Carthage folk all said the same, we could lose first round or win state. The team that played Silsbee, was always talented but not playing to their potential. I began to after that game. If i'm not mistaken I think Surratt sent them home on that monday in frustration. This is a young team that had to grow up fast. How can you call an area underwhelming who won a state title? How many well balanced teams dis WOS face?

I understand your point but our offense was elite! It's just our defense was eliter (yes, new word I made up and will copyright it lmao!!) and got all the attention. We literally played the worst offense game in the past 2 years and still won handily in the SC game. Yes, Sweetwater's D had a little help in that but even J.Dallas will tell you he played the worst game of his career at WOS, hell, he even said it on national TV after the game. If you can make all those mistakes , play uncommonly under your normal potential and still win the State Championship, that is the definition of an elite offense. 811 points scored in a season doesn't make your offense just "good"

[kicker]

And to be completely honest? We could have scored 1200+ points this season. Seriously. But when your starters are taken out at halftime in 14 if 16 games, that tends to happen.

[ctown81]

13 hours ago, kicker said:

And to be completely honest? We could have scored 1200+ points this season. Seriously. But when your starters are taken out at halftime in 14 if 16 games, that tends to happen.

I definitely believe they could have scored all those points but  a weak preseason (which is not their fault, location has more to do with that) schedule aided that. A lot of teams have the pulling players at halftime argument. I just don't see them putting up big numbers moving up a classification.

[AggiesAreWe]

14 hours ago, kicker said:

And to be completely honest? We could have scored 1200+ points this season. Seriously. But when your starters are taken out at halftime in 14 if 16 games, that tends to happen.

Question, what two games did the starters play the 2nd half?