Gun Bans Work?

[tvc184]

3 minutes ago, Remmus said:

Come on officer.  Yes, banning bayonets is stupid and does nothing.  Probably not hard to find an idiot that will defend the idea, but if we're really talking about gun safety you'll need a better video. 

What makes an AR so much more deadly in a mass shooting than a pistol? I anxiously await your response. Explain to me why banning them will end most of these shootings. 

[Englebert]

7 minutes ago, Remmus said:

Come on officer.  Yes, banning bayonets is stupid and does nothing.  Probably not hard to find an idiot that will defend the idea, but if we're really talking about gun safety you'll need a better video. 

Really? We need a better video? The video illustrates that the person in charge of making laws to protect us has no idea what they are talking about. Guns are not our biggest problem, clueless legislators are the problem...which was very well articulated in the video. This harkens back to clueless voters.

[tvc184]

In VA Tech shooting, the deadliest in US history until the Orlando night club shooting recently, the shooter killed 32 people with a 9mm and a .22 which we know is about the smallest and weakest handgun available. 

In Orlando, along with the AR-like rifle he had a Glock which apparently you are okay with as you have stated so. 

Columbine that seems to have started the "active shooter" incidents, they used 9mm handguns and a hunting shotgun. 

In fact for most of these incidents, not only were common and fairly low powered handguns used, they tend to be a must deadlier threat at close range. Of course that will not matter as those small handguns aren't seen as that much evil as are "assault" rifles. 

[Remmus]

3 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

What makes an AR so much more deadly in a mass shooting than a pistol? I anxiously await your response. Explain to me why banning them will end most of these shootings. 

Anything that goes "pop, pop, pop" I can live with, but anything that goes "blattttt-ta-tat-tat-tat" needs to live at a military base or in a SWAT team facility.  Just like a bazooka.  That's just the world I prefer to live in.  Lets look at the case of the D.C. sniper.  I worked for a guy that lost his best friend to John Allen Muhammad.  His Bushmaster made it possible to line up a target a half mile away. Try that with a hand gun.  

[baddog]

10 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

What makes an AR so much more deadly in a mass shooting than a pistol? I anxiously await your response. Explain to me why banning them will end most of these shootings. 

I mentioned your comparison of the AR to a semi-auto handgun in an earlier post. It was where I said Dylann Roof used a .45 ACP.

[tvc184]

8 minutes ago, Englebert said:

Really? We need a better video? The video illustrates that the person in charge of making laws to protect us has no idea what they are talking about. Guns are not our biggest problem, clueless legislators are the problem...which was very well articulated in the video. This harkens back to clueless voters.

When you show a couple of videos of the people that actually try to enact those laws, what better video could we show? 

This wasn't some rant by a right wing zealot but the actual lawmakers showing that they are for banning what they have no clue about and make outright bogus claims. 

Better videos? 

[Remmus]

10 minutes ago, Englebert said:

Really? We need a better video? The video illustrates that the person in charge of making laws to protect us has no idea what they are talking about. Guns are not our biggest problem, clueless legislators are the problem...which was very well articulated in the video. This harkens back to clueless voters.

I agree that bleeding heart liberals that have never owned or used a gun will come up with bad ideas.  I previously stated we need pro-gun legislators to propose smart laws.

[Remmus]

Check out one of Donald Trump's favorite newspapers: 

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I'm not presenting this as evidence to support my points, I'm seeking education from people that know guns.

[Englebert]

11 minutes ago, Remmus said:

I agree that bleeding heart liberals that have never owned or used a gun will come up with bad ideas.  I previously stated we need pro-gun legislators to propose smart laws.

I'm curious as to what new laws would make us safer. Getting rid of gun-free zones would be a start. Requiring a minimum number of armed teachers/security on school campuses would help. Encouraging more law abiding citizens to carry...and making it easier to do would be another. Teaching gun safety courses in school. (I would make that a requirement.)

What would you propose?

[baddog]

8 minutes ago, Remmus said:

Check out one of Donald Trump's favorite newspapers: 

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I'm not presenting this as evidence to support my points, I'm seeking education from people that know guns.

What the educated gun owners are saying is that these murders could not have been prevented if assault rifles were banned. The educated already know the mass murders and the guns used.   

[tvc184]

10 minutes ago, Remmus said:

Anything that goes "pop, pop, pop" I can live with, but anything that goes "blattttt-ta-tat-tat-tat" needs to live at a military base or in a SWAT team facility.  Just like a bazooka.  That's just the world I prefer to live in.  Lets look at the case of the D.C. sniper.  I worked for a guy that lost his best friend to John Allen Muhammad.  His Bushmaster made it possible to line up a target a half mile away. Try that with a hand gun.  

Anything that goes blattttt-ta-tat-tat-tat is probably a machine gun and illegal already. Even most SWAT teams do not carry them. 

I though the DC sniper shot from a block or so away and sometimes from across the street. Where are you getting your information that he was shooting from about half a mile away? Also, he was taking well place single shots and not spraying ammo. In fact that could have been accomplished with almost any rifle. The AR was a weapon of convenience, not necessity. 

I think you are just making this stuff up as you go. 

[Remmus]

4 minutes ago, Englebert said:

I'm curious as to what new laws would make us safer. Getting rid of gun-free zones would be a start. Requiring a minimum number of armed teachers/security on school campuses would help. Encouraging more law abiding citizens to carry would be another. Teaching gun safety courses in school. (I would make that a requirement.)

What would you propose?

So we have two camps, right?  One side says more guns makes us safe and one says less guns makes us safe.  When it comes to airplanes, I love the idea that my pilot has a gun on him.  I'm quite certain that 9/11 would have gone down different with armed pilots.  When it comes to schools...uhhhhhh.  I like having armed school cops and even an armed principal, but armed teachers.  Yeah, that's scary.  I can see a kid getting capped on a stand your ground situation in the classroom.

[Englebert]

3 minutes ago, Remmus said:

So we have two camps, right?  One side says more guns makes us safe and one says less guns makes us safe.  When it comes to airplanes, I love the idea that my pilot has a gun on him.  I'm quite certain that 9/11 would have gone down different with armed pilots.  When it comes to schools...uhhhhhh.  I like having armed school cops and even an armed principal, but armed teachers.  Yeah, that's scary.  I can see a kid getting capped on a stand your ground situation in the classroom.

Maybe the kids will behave themselves a little better knowing their teacher might be packing.

A few school districts in Texas and some in other states have already adopted this practice. As far as I know, each district sets the requirements on training and how/where the guns are carried, but I have faith that the superintendent (or school board) will be able to select the right personnel to receive the training required to protect the little sitting ducks.

[LumRaiderFan]

3 minutes ago, Remmus said:

So we have two camps, right?  One side says more guns makes us safe and one says less guns makes us safe.  When it comes to airplanes, I love the idea that my pilot has a gun on him.  I'm quite certain that 9/11 would have gone down different with armed pilots.  When it comes to schools...uhhhhhh.  I like having armed school cops and even an armed principal, but armed teachers.  Yeah, that's scary.  I can see a kid getting capped on a stand your ground situation in the classroom.

I can see them stopping some maniac before he kills a bunch of kids...now that's scary.

That's the difference, I have more confidence in the good guys.

[Remmus]

7 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

Anything that goes blattttt-ta-tat-tat-tat is probably a machine gun and illegal already. Even most SWAT teams do not carry them. 

I though the DC sniper shot from a block or so away and sometimes from across the street. Where are you getting your information that he was shooting from about half a mile away? Also, he was taking well place single shots and not spraying ammo. In fact that could have been accomplished with almost any rifle. The AR was a weapon of convenience, not necessity. 

I think you are just making this stuff up as you go. 

Not making it up...I'm exaggerating for a bit of humor.  That fact is Mr. Muhammad could have shot a whole lot more if he wanted to.  I don't want guys like him having the convenience of a Bushmaster.  The way I recall the reports is the guy sat well off on high ground and pegged people.  It was a sick game of target practice for sniper.

[Remmus]

3 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I can see them stopping some maniac before he kills a bunch of kids...now that's scary.

That's the difference, I have more confidence in the good guys.

So can trained school cops who go through the police academy.

[tvc184]

2 minutes ago, Remmus said:

Not making it up...I'm exaggerating for a bit of humor.  That fact is Mr. Muhammad could have shot a whole lot more if he wanted to.  I don't want guys like him having the convenience of a Bushmaster.  The way I recall the reports is the guy sat well off on high ground and pegged people.  It was a sick game of target practice for sniper.

And all this time I thought that he was in the trunk of a car nearby and had drilled a hole in the trunk which is why they weren't caught sooner. 

You sure that you aren't making this stuff up? Sat on high ground?

[LumRaiderFan]

2 minutes ago, Remmus said:

So can trained school cops who go through the police academy.

No problem having them qualify...we have a member on here, Bullets13 who is (I think) still a teacher.

I have no doubt kids will be safer if he could carry in the classroom...there are just so many cops on a campus.

[Remmus]

4 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

And all this time I thought that he was in the trunk of a car nearby and had drilled a hole in the trunk which is why they weren't caught sooner. 

You sure that you aren't making this stuff up? Sat on high ground?

It's the Washington Post  so you might call it a lefty lie...lol.  But I lived up there when this was going down and it's how I recall the reports.

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 said he remembers each of 

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 in detail. But one moment — one image — stands out among the carnage of that terrifying time 10 years ago:

“Mr. Franklin’s eyes.”

Malvo remembers being in the blue Chevrolet Caprice, in which police found binoculars and walkie-talkies. He scanned the area to make sure 

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 had a clean shot. He gave the “go” order and looked across Route 50 in Seven Corners at the target. Muhammad, hidden on a hill above, pulled the trigger. A bullet screamed across the highway, instantly killing Linda Franklin, who just happened to be going about her business at the Home Depot in Virginia at precisely the wrong time.

[tvc184]

5 minutes ago, Remmus said:

So can trained school cops who go through the police academy.

Teachers are there all the time at no additional cost.

Did you know that TX allows teachers to carry weapons in school and TX even has a school/marshal program where it licenses teachers as law enforcement officers while on school grounds? Both situations require the district allowing it but both are in place at no additional cost. 

[tvc184]

5 minutes ago, Remmus said:

It's the Washington Post  so you might call it a lefty lie...lol.  But I lived up there when this was going down and it's how I recall the reports.

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 said he remembers each of 

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 in detail. But one moment — one image — stands out among the carnage of that terrifying time 10 years ago:

“Mr. Franklin’s eyes.”

Malvo remembers being in the blue Chevrolet Caprice, in which police found binoculars and walkie-talkies. He scanned the area to make sure 

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 had a clean shot. He gave the “go” order and looked across Route 50 in Seven Corners at the target. Muhammad, hidden on a hill above, pulled the trigger. A bullet screamed across the highway, instantly killing Linda Franklin, who just happened to be going about her business at the Home Depot in Virginia at precisely the wrong time.

That was one of 10 and it doesn't mention half a mile away. Oh yeah, that was for effect...... 

[Englebert]

I played a benefit softball tournament in Zavalla a few many years ago. The umpire was the town sheriff or constable, and was in full uniform, complete with his pistol strapped in it's holster. In 20 years of playing tournaments, that is the only one I've ever played in where there was not one complaint of a bad call.

[Remmus]

9 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

That was one of 10 and it doesn't mention half a mile away. Oh yeah, that was for effect...... 

Its still a long shot from high ground with a high powered weapon.  That lady didn't have a chance.  Hey, it's only one life, right?

This topic is near and dear to me as my brother was killed by gun violence.  He was shot in the back two times with hollow tip bullets that shredded his internals.  He was 20 years old. The weapon was a handgun and not an assault rifle, but you can understand my feelings regarding gun control.  Guns are one aspect of this conversation and dealing with young kids that use guns to kill people is another.

Thanks for indulging me and sharing your views.  I've learned a lot from this discussion. 

[Remmus]

8 minutes ago, Englebert said:

I played a benefit softball tournament in Zavalla a few many years ago. The umpire was the town sheriff or constable, and was in full uniform, complete with his pistol strapped in it's holster. In 20 years of playing tournaments, that is the only one I've ever played in where there was not one complaint of a bad call.

LMAO!!!

[tvc184]

In the summer of 1991 I gave a talk at the monthly meeting of the Lion's Club. At the end of the 10 minutes presentation I took questions. None were about the DWI that I spoke about but they wanted to know about the then rage in the media, "assault weapons". 

In particular was the San Ysidro, CA McDonald't shooting from a few years earlier where one of the weapons was an Uzi. It last over an hour and killed 20 in what was up to that time the deadliest single shooter incident in USA history. I wasn't expecting the question but offered my opinion. With the high capacity handgun of today, with the ammo being much lighter and easier to carry (I could probably carry several hundred rounds loaded into magazines in my blue jeans pockets), it wouldn't be long before someone with a handgun does more damage as up close they are much faster, much easier to conceal and way more ammo can be carried with a lot less weight and effort. Try to carry 200 rounds on AR magazines and then try the same with a Glock 9mm. 

Unfortunately I didn't have long to wait. A couple of months later a guy in Killeen, TX crashed his truck through a window at Luby's and killed 23 patrons. The CA incident lasted over an hour with the shotgun and Uzi. The Luby's shooting lasted about 12 minutes. 

At the range almost every mass shooting happens, a handgun is plenty powerful and much faster and easier to use. In Columbine they used handguns. In VA Tech he used even small .22 handguns. In Luby's it was handguns. In fact with children huddled up  in New Town, CT, a handgun would have been much faster with much more ammo carried. As sick as he was it is probably better that he used an AR rather than a couple of handguns. We might have lost more children. 

I don't care what their lately preferred weapon is but as long as the incidents are up close and personal like shoot or nightclub shootings, there is no real advantage to a rifle and in some circumstances it is a more poor choice. 

I would like to see any evidence that banning rifles would end any of the mass shootings that are happening.