Silsbee vs Argyle 4A State Semi Final

[BADSANTA]

Silsbee played Argyle last year and had to slow it down and won. I think we cs speed them up this year and win. 

[JimThorpe]

33 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

No surprise to what happens next...2 opposite styles of play are about to square off.  Silsbee will no doubt try to speed the game up.  Argyle will most likely try to slow it down.  I think whichever team is successful at doing that will probably win.  We'll see what happens.

And that's what makes it so interesting and why I hoped Silsbee would draw Argyle so they definitely get to play each other.  I love it when styles clash.  You don't get that too much at the higher levels.  Everybody has pretty much the same "style" and it's dictated by the shear size and athleticism of the players.  I have no doubt that Argyle will have some success during the game doing their thing and Silsbee will have some success doing their thing.  A blowout won't help either team going into Saturday.  

My ideal situation is a game like the Yates game but not quite as close.  Silsbee wins by 23 this time - but it's closer than that.  Silsbee gets the lead early and keeps the lead but Argyle it is competitive all the way until early in the 4th when Silsbee pulls away the last few minutes are comfortable. That way my wife can go to the box office early and buy tickets for Saturday.

I don't ask for much do I?  Just to have things my way, that's all.

 

[JimThorpe]

As far as the refs go I haven't observed any real bias displayed by the officials in the games I've seen.  Looked to me like their only interest was getting it right according to their training and understanding.  Now some refs are not super great at their job, some are barely competent, some will be good but need experience, some are really good and some are excellent.  We're getting the cream of the crop in San Antonio.  I have confidence in them.

That doesn't mean I won't go absolutely ape over a particular missed call at a crucial moment.  I rationalize by convincing myself that I'm just trying to encourage a make up call.  Yea, right.  

Our problem is not missed calls and it's certainly not bias.  Our problem is that UIL rules fundamentally disfavor the Silsbee Tigers.

The most extreme example is the shot clock.  The UIL has steadfastly refused to consider it.  And the reasons are good ones.  But Silsbee would thrive in an environment with a  shot clock.  Heck, they'd thrive in world with a 10 second shot clock!  And even that might be too long.  It's like watching speed chess or something.  A foundational rule of high school basketball in Texas fundamentally does not favor the Silsbee Tigers.  And it never will.  So from my perspective we're being cheated ALL THE TIME!  And I am kind of joking.  I certainly don't expect a shot clock.

A less extreme example is the 10 second rule.  What if it was 8 seconds?  In Silsbee's case it would simply be sauce for the goose.  They'd get caught now and then but in the main it would be a huge benefit.

So the officiating Friday will favor Argyle because the rules favor Argyle.  And they favor Argyle in ways so profound they dwarf the occasional missed traveling call or a particular official's interpretation of what is or isn't blocking.  The refs will be counting all the way to 10 in the back court and they will let the Falcons hang on to the ball in the front court without shooting just as long as they're able.

All we can do about it is have a different kind of team.  Anybody want that?  I thought not.  Me either.  So all we're left to do is fuss and fume and deal with it.  And monitor our blood pressure.

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, JimThorpe said:

And that's what makes it so interesting and why I hoped Silsbee would draw Argyle so they definitely get to play each other.  I love it when styles clash.  You don't get that too much at the higher levels.  Everybody has pretty much the same "style" and it's dictated by the shear size and athleticism of the players.  I have no doubt that Argyle will have some success during the game doing their thing and Silsbee will have some success doing their thing.  A blowout won't help either team going into Saturday.  

My ideal situation is a game like the Yates game but not quite as close.  Silsbee wins by 23 this time - but it's closer than that.  Silsbee gets the lead early and keeps the lead but Argyle it is competitive all the way until early in the 4th when Silsbee pulls away the last few minutes are comfortable. That way my wife can go to the box office early and buy tickets for Saturday.

I don't ask for much do I?  Just to have things my way, that's all.

 

 

I'm biased toward "discipline basketball".  I'm not saying that I hope Silsbee loses...or that I think Argyle will win.  I'm just saying that I'm a fan of the way basketball is played when athleticism isn't the only thing that matters.  I'm also not saying that the game hasn't adapted to benefit bigger, stronger, faster players.  Because it has.  I'm just saying that there is a reason that a VAST majority of college and pro teams play basketball of the old ways.  Man to man defense, half court offense.  I love it.

Both styles are fun, though...to watch and to play.  I just think that one style has lasted through the ages, and the other was a flash in the pan and is now dying. 

[BADSANTA]

I would like to see Silsbee speed them up th entire game. 

[JimThorpe]

3 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

I'm biased toward "discipline basketball".  I'm not saying that I hope Silsbee loses...or that I think Argyle will win.  I'm just saying that I'm a fan of the way basketball is played when athleticism isn't the only thing that matters.  I'm also not saying that the game hasn't adapted to benefit bigger, stronger, faster players.  Because it has.  I'm just saying that there is a reason that a VAST majority of college and pro teams play basketball of the old ways.  Man to man defense, half court offense.  I love it.

Both styles are fun, though...to watch and to play.  I just think that one style has lasted through the ages, and the other was a flash in the pan and is now dying. 

If you can push the ball up fast, or in Silsbee's case crazy fast, why wouldn't you want to do that?  You can always pull up and settle into an offense if a quick scoring opportunity doesn't materialize.  Doesn't it give the opponent something else to worry about?  Doesn't it make their guards, and even small forwards, think twice before helping on the offensive boards?  It's the middle of the 4th quarter and you are nursing a 14 point lead.  Is it better or worse for you that you've made the opponent race back on defense the whole game?

If you're deep and quick and opportunistic why wouldn't you want to go with a full court defense?  You don't have to trap every time and take chances every time.  But take them out of their comfort zone and make them work a little to get the ball up the court.  Again, it's the middle of the 4th quarter and you're nursing a 14 point lead.  Is it better or worse for you that you've made the opposing ball handlers work hard all game long to get the ball to front court?

[PINETREE]

My 2 cents:  I don't like "STALL" ball

[no-look]

Silsbee's pressure may not allow a lot of stall ball. 

[24 over par]

huge difference between good disciplined ball and stallball

[rider78]

I wasn't going to bring this up but since we have gotten this far, I think I will. A woman from Paris who sat close to me during the Argyle- Center game, told me after the Paris-Argyle game that she was standing behind the Argyle bench before the Center game when a ref came up to the Argyle coach and told him not to worry, the refs had this. I have no reason to believe this woman would not be telling the truth about this. Why would she make something like that up? Now you read between the lines oldschool2.

[wosfan1992]

15 minutes ago, rider78 said:

I wasn't going to bring this up but since we have gotten this far, I think I will. A woman from Paris who sat close to me during the Argyle- Center game, told me after the Paris-Argyle game that she was standing behind the Argyle bench before the Center game when a ref came up to the Argyle coach and told him not to worry, the refs had this. I have no reason to believe this woman would not be telling the truth about this. Why would she make something like that up? Now you read between the lines oldschool2.

The refs don't stop another team from scoring baskets at all. Nor do they make the baskets go in. Smh. This is ridiculous 

[Kountzer]

Back in the 70s when Dan Montgomery was the coach. Silsbee ran a disciplined, half court offense.  The main emphasis was for the pt guard to bring the ball down and make an entry pass to the strong post.  There was the strong post, weak post, high post and I pt guard and the corner guy. 

I left and went to the military.  I am not sure what type offense coaches like Fred Williams ran.  Somewhere along the way coach Sigler came in and Silsbee has been running and pressing every since.  Coach Sigler's  winning percentage is good and the game is entertaining.  It looks a bit undisciplined at times, but what do I know? 

[bobbymcgee]

Could Silsbee be the area's WO-S for basketball ? Both undersized teams with overwhelming athletics 

 

WO-S football 

2014- heartbreaking loss in state championship

2015- state championship 

2016- state championship 

 

Silsbee baskeball 

2016- heartbreaking loss in state championship 

2017- state title 

2018- rinse and repeat ? 

 

 

 

[rider78]

37 minutes ago, wosfan1992 said:

The refs don't stop another team from scoring baskets at all. Nor do they make the baskets go in. Smh. This is ridiculous 

But they do refuse to make calls that are obvious, such as traveling, double dribble, fouls, etc. And they also count very quickly sometimes. If you had seen the game you would know what I am talking about. If you think for one second, the refs cannot influence the outcome of a game, in any sport, you are crazy.

[PINETREE]

rider78.......I agree

[rider78]

Good luck, Silsbee. I hope y'all spank them good and send them packing back to the Dallas area.

[JimThorpe]

1 hour ago, rider78 said:

Why would she make something like that up? Now you read between the lines oldschool2.

Not trying to say you didn't see what you saw.  But in Region III I saw no evidence of anything like that.  Doesn't it seem unlikely that the systematic bias you describe could occur at the State Tournament.  In that environment an official would do everything he could to call the game as well and as fairly as possibly.  Practically the entire royal court of Texas high school basketball will be in attendance including all the UIL basketball big shots. Bright lights from past teams are all around waiting to be honored at half time.  Sports press from all over state with their laptops at the ready.  A zillion cameras.  Fans from all over.  

[no-look]

21 minutes ago, JimThorpe said:

Not trying to say you didn't see what you saw.  But in Region III I saw no evidence of anything like that.  Doesn't it seem unlikely that the systematic bias you describe could occur at the State Tournament.  In that environment an official would do everything he could to call the game as well and as fairly as possibly.  Practically the entire royal court of Texas high school basketball will be in attendance including all the UIL basketball big shots. Bright lights from past teams are all around waiting to be honored at half time.  Sports press from all over state with their laptops at the ready.  A zillion cameras.  Fans from all over.  

Popcorn popping, game winning shots and don't forget about those Dip n Dots!  

[Kountzer]

3 hours ago, bobbymcgee said:

Could Silsbee be the area's WO-S for basketball ? Both undersized teams with overwhelming athletics 

 

WO-S football 

2014- heartbreaking loss in state championship

2015- state championship 

2016- state championship 

 

Silsbee baskeball 

2016- heartbreaking loss in state championship 

2017- state title 

2018- rinse and repeat ? 

 

 

 

Just win it all one time Silsbee. 

 

The rest will take care of itself.

[Hunter92]

11 hours ago, bobbymcgee said:

Could Silsbee be the area's WO-S for basketball ? Both undersized teams with overwhelming athletics 

 

WO-S football 

2014- heartbreaking loss in state championship

2015- state championship 

2016- state championship 

 

Silsbee baskeball 

2016- heartbreaking loss in state championship 

2017- state title 

2018- rinse and repeat ? 

 

 

 

Might wanna pump the breaks just a little bit and focus on one game at a time. I know Silsbee is the local favorite, and there is no reason to expect them to lose either of the next two games. However, there always seems to be "that one team" out there that nobody sees coming. The team that is a bad match-up, or the team that is more disciplined, or the team that is just flat out better. Let's not forget that two years ago all of SETX was ready to give Big Sandy the 2A state title with a bow on top. They beat several 3A state tourney level teams, beat several big name ranked 4A teams, and nobody in 2A could compete with them. Then in the state final, out of nowhere came Canadian from way up in the panhandle. 

I'm not predicting a Silsbee loss, I'm just saying some of yall might wanna pump the breaks a little. Maybe Silsbee is literally in a separate universe than the rest of 4A this year, I don't know. I haven't watched enough ball this year to give an accurate opinion on that. All I know is that after watching Big Sandy lose 2 years ago, after they obliterated almost every team they played that year regardless of classification, I will never again assume that one certain team is a lock to win it all. 

[rider78]

9 hours ago, JimThorpe said:

Not trying to say you didn't see what you saw.  But in Region III I saw no evidence of anything like that.  Doesn't it seem unlikely that the systematic bias you describe could occur at the State Tournament.  In that environment an official would do everything he could to call the game as well and as fairly as possibly.  Practically the entire royal court of Texas high school basketball will be in attendance including all the UIL basketball big shots. Bright lights from past teams are all around waiting to be honored at half time.  Sports press from all over state with their laptops at the ready.  A zillion cameras.  Fans from all over.  

I didn't say anything like that happened in Region III but in Region II it did. I didn't say it would happen in the state tournament and don't figure it will.

[oldschool2]

15 hours ago, PINETREE said:

My 2 cents:  I don't like "STALL" ball

Who said anything about "Stall" ball?

 

17 hours ago, JimThorpe said:

If you can push the ball up fast, or in Silsbee's case crazy fast, why wouldn't you want to do that?  You can always pull up and settle into an offense if a quick scoring opportunity doesn't materialize.  Doesn't it give the opponent something else to worry about?  Doesn't it make their guards, and even small forwards, think twice before helping on the offensive boards?  It's the middle of the 4th quarter and you are nursing a 14 point lead.  Is it better or worse for you that you've made the opponent race back on defense the whole game?

If you're deep and quick and opportunistic why wouldn't you want to go with a full court defense?  You don't have to trap every time and take chances every time.  But take them out of their comfort zone and make them work a little to get the ball up the court.  Again, it's the middle of the 4th quarter and you're nursing a 14 point lead.  Is it better or worse for you that you've made the opposing ball handlers work hard all game long to get the ball to front court?

 

I'm not talking about bringing the ball up the court slowly...or burning a minute of game time before making a shot.  A good team can push the ball up the floor very quickly with 1 or 2 passes, and if they don't have an opportunity for an easy transition bucket they can pull the ball out and set up an offense and kill you with discipline.  And after a shot goes up if the offensive team sends 1 or 2 back to slow/stop easy transition buckets on the other end then the team isn't having to "race back on defense" the whole game.  I can promise you...pressure full court defense and trying to outsprint the other team in order to get layups every possession can be just as detrimental to the team doing it if it isn't working.  If that style isn't working then Silsbee will burn a lot of unnecessary energy when they didn't have to.  Notice I said IF... I'm not implying they shouldn't do what they do.  And I'm not saying it can't win them the game.  I'm just saying that it might not be as effective as is has been thus far.  

[oldschool2]

11 hours ago, rider78 said:

But they do refuse to make calls that are obvious, such as traveling, double dribble, fouls, etc. And they also count very quickly sometimes. If you had seen the game you would know what I am talking about. If you think for one second, the refs cannot influence the outcome of a game, in any sport, you are crazy.

 

Refs can NOT influence the outcome of a game.  They can definitely influence the outcome of possessions/calls which can change momentum.  Like state earlier...refs can't make one team make shots or another team miss shots.  There were 32 minutes of game time and literally any one sinlge mistake that Center made could've made the difference in the game.  How many free throws did Center miss?  Or easy shots?  Unforced turnovers?.... Get out of here with that nonsense.  That is a very poor excuse for losing a game.

"I sat close to a lady that stood behind the bench that heard the ref tell the coach...."

Give me a break.  Tell you what.  Let's just blame the Russians.

[aTmfan06]

I'm sure if the ref said that it was probably taken out of context... like the left does with a lot of things the president says lol

[CardinalBacker]

12 hours ago, bobbymcgee said:

Could Silsbee be the area's WO-S for basketball ? Both undersized teams with overwhelming athletics 

 

WO-S football 

2014- heartbreaking loss in state championship

2015- state championship 

2016- state championship 

 

Silsbee baskeball 

2016- heartbreaking loss in state championship 

2017- state title 

2018- rinse and repeat ? 

 

 

 

Exactly the same.... except Silsbee hasn't won one yet.  

 

 

Or ever.  

 

 

Pump the brakes, Tiger fans.... y'all were picking yourselves to win state in football this year, too.