Silsbee vs Argyle 4A State Semi Final

[oldschool2]

46 minutes ago, aTmfan06 said:

I'm sure if the ref said that it was probably taken out of context... like the left does with a lot of things the president says lol

 

Example:

Coach- "Hey man...you alright?  You guys look tired."

Ref- "Don't worry coach, we got this."

Fan 1 - "Oh my Goodness....the ref just told the Argyle coach "don't worry, we got this"

Fan 2 - "Holy cow!  A lady just told me that the Argyle coach asked the ref to help them out...and they agreed! she heard it"

Fan 3 - "Well...no surprise we lost.  A guy told me that his wife heard a lady say that she saw the coach give the ref a $100 bill to make sure they won"

Fan 4 - "I didn't want to bring this up earlier, but... (insert above statement)"

[ST413]

2 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

Refs can NOT influence the outcome of a game.  They can definitely influence the outcome of possessions/calls which can change momentum.  Like state earlier...refs can't make one team make shots or another team miss shots.  There were 32 minutes of game time and literally any one sinlge mistake that Center made could've made the difference in the game.  How many free throws did Center miss?  Or easy shots?  Unforced turnovers?.... Get out of here with that nonsense.  That is a very poor excuse for losing a game.

"I sat close to a lady that stood behind the bench that heard the ref tell the coach...."

Give me a break.  Tell you what.  Let's just blame the Russians.

Although I agree with the gist of what you are saying, I disagree that a ref can't influence the outcome.  Now I am not going to blame or even direct a suspicion to any particular game, ref or instance. But in a close game a bad call or two can definitely influence an outcome,  especially say a bad travel or charge call that takes a possible game winning it tying bucket off the scoreboard.  And a ref could also take a teams best player or players out of the game with foul calls. And yes I realize it's the players responsibility to adjust but you get into that inconsistency aspect of officiating as well.

[oldschool2]

6 minutes ago, ST413 said:

Although I agree with the gist of what you are saying, I disagree that a ref can't influence the outcome.  Now I am not going to blame or even direct a suspicion to any particular game, ref or instance. But in a close game a bad call or two can definitely influence an outcome,  especially say a bad travel or charge call that takes a possible game winning it tying bucket off the scoreboard.  And a ref could also take a teams best player or players out of the game with foul calls. And yes I realize it's the players responsibility to adjust but you get into that inconsistency aspect of officiating as well.

3

What about all of the situations and possessions that led up to that?.... A lot of stuff can happen one way or another that would have prevented a game from being close enough for one possession to dictate the outcome. Literally...1 missed shot or turnover could've changed the entire situation.  

[Fighting Llama]

This is the last I'm saying about argyle/center because obviously this is an argyle/silsbee thread. 

As for refs...Yea I think they could've been better. Do I think they beat center? Not exactly. Center was 10-17 from FT's for the game and missed 9 or so shots right around the bucket (4ft or less) if I counted correctly (I've watched the film twice now). If half of these go in and a few more FT's we win by double digits. Cookie just didn't crumble our way Friday evening. Just how it goes sometimes. With that said, I do have some interesting numbers that I wrote down. Through 3 qtrs, center had a total of 8 fouls called against them, while argyle had 13. I think there were a couple missed calls both ways through 3 qtrs. The score was 36-34 argyle's favor heading to 4th. In the 4th qtr, argyle committed 3 fouls. 2 of which were intentional "take" fouls with under 1 min to go. Center, on the other hand, had 8 fouls called against them in the 4th. Only 1 was intentional, late in 4th. Argyle shot 6-12 from FT's in the 4th, Center was 0-0. Argyle did not have a made FG over the last 4:30 or so of the game. All points from then on were FT's. 

It was unfortunate for Center, but it is what it is. Life goes on. I'll be pulling for the Tigers to get it done against Argyle Friday afternoon.

[oldschool2]

47 minutes ago, Fighting Llama said:

This is the last I'm saying about argyle/center because obviously this is an argyle/silsbee thread. 

As for refs...Yea I think they could've been better. Do I think they beat center? Not exactly. Center was 10-17 from FT's for the game and missed 9 or so shots right around the bucket (4ft or less) if I counted correctly (I've watched the film twice now). If half of these go in and a few more FT's we win by double digits. Cookie just didn't crumble our way Friday evening. Just how it goes sometimes. With that said, I do have some interesting numbers that I wrote down. Through 3 qtrs, center had a total of 8 fouls called against them, while argyle had 13. I think there were a couple missed calls both ways through 3 qtrs. The score was 36-34 argyle's favor heading to 4th. In the 4th qtr, argyle committed 3 fouls. 2 of which were intentional "take" fouls with under 1 min to go. Center, on the other hand, had 8 fouls called against them in the 4th. Only 1 was intentional, late in 4th. Argyle shot 6-12 from FT's in the 4th, Center was 0-0. Argyle did not have a made FG over the last 4:30 or so of the game. All points from then on were FT's. 

It was unfortunate for Center, but it is what it is. Life goes on. I'll be pulling for the Tigers to get it done against Argyle Friday afternoon.

 

2 things:

1st...if they missed 7 ft's and 9 or so shots around the rim then yes...that's what cost them the game.  Refs had nothing to do with that.

2nd...you can not compare the foul count of 2 teams that play different styles of basketball or defense.  If one team plays more aggressive defense or just bad defense then they will always commit more fouls.

[Fighting Llama]

5 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

2 things:

1st...if they missed 7 ft's and 9 or so shots around the rim then yes...that's what cost them the game.  Refs had nothing to do with that.

2nd...you can not compare the foul count of 2 teams that play different styles of basketball or defense.  If one team plays more aggressive defense or just bad defense then they will always commit more fouls.

They played the same style of defense...

[ST413]

56 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

What about all of the situations and possessions that led up to that?.... A lot of stuff can happen one way or another that would have prevented a game from being close enough for one possession to dictate the outcome. Literally...1 missed shot or turnover could've changed the entire situation.  

That is true but that ref at that point has still affected the outcome no matter how they reached that point.

[Tigers2010]

Can we get back to the topic. Center got beat. Center fans are complaining about officials. Welcome to the losing side of sports. 

So about Silsbee/Argyle. Tigers by 11

[oldschool2]

14 minutes ago, ST413 said:

That is true but that ref at that point has still affected the outcome no matter how they reached that point.

 

False.  Had they made their free throws and easy buckets the bad call would not have been noticed.  Or if the call had happened earlier in the game.

Back on topic.  If Silsbee can successfully speed the game up they will win.  If Argyle can successfully slow the game down they will have a chance at winning.  I personally think that Silsbee has the definite advantage.

[wosfan1992]

silsbee by 18

[Silsbeealum14]

17 hours ago, bobbymcgee said:

Could Silsbee be the area's WO-S for basketball ? Both undersized teams with overwhelming athletics 

 

WO-S football 

2014- heartbreaking loss in state championship

2015- state championship 

2016- state championship 

 

Silsbee baskeball 

2016- heartbreaking loss in state championship 

2017- state title 

2018- rinse and repeat ? 

 

 

 

I think so !!! Go Tigers

[Silsbeealum14]

5 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Exactly the same.... except Silsbee hasn't won one yet.  

 

 

Or ever.  

 

 

Pump the brakes, Tiger fans.... y'all were picking yourselves to win state in football this year, too. 

You again !!! We all know you hate Silsbee, so we know who you rooting for....

[78Stang]

5 hours ago, Silsbeealum14 said:

22 hours ago, bobbymcgee said:

Could Silsbee be the area's WO-S for basketball ? Both undersized teams with overwhelming athletics 

 

WO-S football 

2014- heartbreaking loss in state championship

2015- state championship 

2016- state championship 

 

Silsbee baskeball 

2016- heartbreaking loss in state championship 

2017- state title 

2018- rinse and repeat ? 

 

 

 

Silsbee has a LONG way to go in order to compare their basketball team to WO-S football. Not even  close, or even in the same conversation.

 

[RealTalkRob]

Brad from Hoopinsider with their twitter reviews they had earlier tonight has picked Silsbee over Argyle in a close game and Brazosport over Heritage. He believes the championship game will be 

Silsbee vs Brazosport and Silsbee with the advantage due their depth and pressure D! 

Hopefully his picks are on the money! 

Let's go Tigers Get that Ring!

[Crawford]

13 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

Refs can NOT influence the outcome of a game.

Boy, aren't you the delusional one. Good or bad calls, refs DO influence the outcome of a game. Duh!

[Crawford]

On 3/8/2017 at 8:10 PM, rider78 said:

I wasn't going to bring this up but since we have gotten this far, I think I will. A woman from Paris who sat close to me during the Argyle- Center game, told me after the Paris-Argyle game that she was standing behind the Argyle bench before the Center game when a ref came up to the Argyle coach and told him not to worry, the refs had this. I have no reason to believe this woman would not be telling the truth about this. Why would she make something like that up? Now you read between the lines oldschool2.

Hmmmmm, interesting. 

[Silsbeealum14]

10 hours ago, 78Stang said:

 

He's just comparing what can happen in those 3 years 78Stang !! Trust me, we know the WOS history and were not even an inch close to what y'all have accomplish in football lol

[oldschool2]

9 hours ago, Crawford said:

Boy, aren't you the delusional one. Good or bad calls, refs DO influence the outcome of a game. Duh!

 

Says the guy who obviously has blamed many a loss on the refs.  If you think one, two, or even a few calls dictate the end result then you're a moron.

Example:  Misses 7 free throws, misses 9 shots at the rim, several turnovers....blames refs on a 2 point loss.

Tell me again who's delusional.  

[JimThorpe]

I love those men and women and thank God for them.  The officials are the essential ingredient to rewarding organized sports.  

But shamefully I yell at them just the same.  It's like an annoying and undesirable reflex.  So I apologize in advance for tomorrow.

[Crawford]

7 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

Says the guy who obviously has blamed many a loss on the refs.  If you think one, two, or even a few calls dictate the end result then you're a moron.

Example:  Misses 7 free throws, misses 9 shots at the rim, several turnovers....blames refs on a 2 point loss.

Tell me again who's delusional.  

I get what you're saying, but rider78 & Fighting Lama tried explaining to you in several of their post their view of it, but you're so set on that only you're points are correct, that you're not willing to stop and think that they may actually have a good argument. Trying to talk to you is like beating a dead horse, it's pointless. That's why I say your delusional. 

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, Crawford said:

I get what you're saying, but rider78 & Fighting Lama tried explaining to you in several of their post their view of it, but you're so set on that only you're points are correct, that you're not willing to stop and think that they may actually have a good argument. Trying to talk to you is like beating a dead horse, it's pointless. That's why I say your delusional. 

I see both of their points.  I understand perfectly what they're saying.  At that particular point in the game, a bad call on a possession at the end of a close game could cause 1 team to win or lose.

My point is this.  There is literally an hour and a half (minimum) of game other than that that could've kept the game from even getting to the point where 1 possession can do so much damage.  I'm afraid that I won't sway on that.  I hear it all the time.  

"Refs blew that call at the end and it costed us the game."  

Why was it that close?

"Well..we played a bad first half."

Umm..that's what cost you the game.

[ST413]

You can still win playing a bad first half....you can't win if the game winning bucket is waved off on a bad call.

[oldschool2]

4 hours ago, ST413 said:

You can still win playing a bad first half....you can't win if the game winning bucket is waved off on a bad call.

Playing better up to that point will prevent the need for a game winning shot.

[Kountzer]

I hope you're right.