Temple 33 Port Arthur Memorial 29/FINAL

[pakronos]

Sorry berry, forgot something else. Understand this. When PAM formed nobody wanted ANY COACHES from either schools. However it became a TJ thing and that’s where we are. One name came up was Todd dodge... an alumni of TJ, but done wonders with SLC. Most just want a fresh face and see something new. When Suggs got to Lincoln, huge change and was very successful... that’s what I’m looking for.  Again no doubt PA gonna have talent. Those guys working with these kids in pop warner are doing an excellent job and these kids growing up being coached right. 

[Bulldogpower]

11 minutes ago, pakronos said:

Hey berry, try to see it my way... let’s be honest this district was a three team district with no competition. Those hicks in the neighboring district is even worse. So with the raw talent PAM have, ANY COACH can beat one or both MC schools which promise you a D1 #1 seed. That means you get that weak D1 runner up first rd and some garabsge Houston/Galveston Co school second and that get you past the first two rounds. Then you face real coaching and teams that will crap on MC schools, which at that point is your toughest teams you played lol. I said all that to say this, like all the haters that will hate in August will say, PAM  should be 4th or 5th round every year. Xbox gets out coached in the third rd... that team in 2011 got that far on talent. Example the kid we called the honey badger, didn’t play during Cibolo Steele game, for a good reason, but the freshman corner they put in got picked on and was the weak link. Xbox is not that much different from Dean Colbert. When jamaal left and talent dried up, PAM struggled horribly. When PAM was in 6a with NO GOOD QB play, imo an overhyped running back that’s doing okay now, it showed he could not coach. The only thing I credit Xbox with is the kids will go through the fire for him.

PAK, I have been saying that for at least a year now, PAM should be 4th round every year! That being said when people say PAM was a disappointment you get defensive because it implies no talent which PAM has tons of talent, no one can deny that, PAM doesn’t have the coaching staff, it’s like this...MC has the coaching staff and PAM has the talent. If they came together PAM would steamroll everyone no doubt. Same with Central (2013 or 2014 can’t remember, the one with Locke on it and that fast QB ) should have wrecked shop.....no coaching, talent yeah, but no coaching. PAM ought to have two outright DCs. Maybe Xbox will get a new frame of mind. 

[pakronos]

24 minutes ago, Bulldogpower said:

PAK, I have been saying that for at least a year now, PAM should be 4th round every year! That being said when people say PAM was a disappointment you get defensive because it implies no talent which PAM has tons of talent, no one can deny that, PAM doesn’t have the coaching staff, it’s like this...MC has the coaching staff and PAM has the talent. If they came together PAM would steamroll everyone no doubt. Same with Central (2013 or 2014 can’t remember, the one with Locke on it and that fast QB ) should have wrecked shop.....no coaching, talent yeah, but no coaching. PAM ought to have two outright DCs. Maybe Xbox will get a new frame of mind. 

No, some saying disappointment as in when the kids say dominate the district, they get butt hurt and say things like if you so called dominated, why they can’t get pass the third rd... they are condescending and try to be slick with it. I agree with you. If I had to pick a coaching staff, give me Nederland 

[L-Train11]

13 hours ago, pakronos said:

No, some saying disappointment as in when the kids say dominate the district, they get butt hurt and say things like if you so called dominated, why they can’t get pass the third rd... they are condescending and try to be slick with it. I agree with you. If I had to pick a coaching staff, give me Nederland 

Can’t really judge a team by how far they go in playoffs. All about matchups and who you play. 

For instance, last year PAM got an “early” knockout from the playoffs to the team who would eventually go on to play in the championship game. So it’s not about how deep you go, it’s about when you draw the shorter straw and play that dominate team. Just my opinion.

Same thing for Nederland this year and PAM. 

[pakronos]

7 minutes ago, L-Train11 said:

Can’t really judge a team by how far they go in playoffs. All about matchups and who you play. 

For instance, last year PAM got an “early” knockout from the playoffs to the team who would eventually go on to play in the championship game. So it’s not about how deep you go, it’s about when you draw the shorter straw and play that dominate team. Just my opinion.

Same thing for Nederland this year and PAM. 

no sir, PAM should have won that game period. out coached.

[L-Train11]

28 minutes ago, pakronos said:

no sir, PAM should have won that game period. out coached.

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking from reading the thread. 

But I was just pointing out that a team can be beat by a good team early and other people will be saying things about said team (PAM in this instance) because they didn’t go as far as what people think they should.

For example, last year Silsbee lost in the first round after Calvin Tyler slipped on a play that would have been a td to seal the game. They then were beat on a last second throw. Everyone was calling for the first year coaches head not realizing that the Carthage team that beat them would eventually go on to win the state championship.

So, everyone wants to jump on PAM and Crosby and teams like that because they don’t advance as far as we would like, but in the end it’s about matchups. You can have an easier route and go 4 rounds deep, or a harder route and be knocked out in the first or second round. Just depends 

[pakronos]

48 minutes ago, L-Train11 said:

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking from reading the thread. 

But I was just pointing out that a team can be beat by a good team early and other people will be saying things about said team (PAM in this instance) because they didn’t go as far as what people think they should.

For example, last year Silsbee lost in the first round after Calvin Tyler slipped on a play that would have been a td to seal the game. They then were beat on a last second throw. Everyone was calling for the first year coaches head not realizing that the Carthage team that beat them would eventually go on to win the state championship.

So, everyone wants to jump on PAM and Crosby and teams like that because they don’t advance as far as we would like, but in the end it’s about matchups. You can have an easier route and go 4 rounds deep, or a harder route and be knocked out in the first or second round. Just depends 

again, temple was not better...except on the sidelines. this team have two good wr's on the outside. with 58 secs left, somebody needs to be on the 50 or PAMS 40 saying don't let nobody out run you. jet swept the hell out of cupcake teams and ran it once for 30 yards with hines and NEVER DID IT AGAIN.

[L-Train11]

45 minutes ago, pakronos said:

again, temple was not better...except on the sidelines. this team have two good wr's on the outside. with 58 secs left, somebody needs to be on the 50 or PAMS 40 saying don't let nobody out run you. jet swept the hell out of cupcake teams and ran it once for 30 yards with hines and NEVER DID IT AGAIN.

I trust you that Temple wasn’t better. I was just trying to make the argument that a team can’t always be judged by how far they advance.

On a side note, how much longer will PAM put up with subpar coaching? Maybe this year we will see a change?

[pakronos]

1 hour ago, L-Train11 said:

I trust you that Temple wasn’t better. I was just trying to make the argument that a team can’t always be judged by how far they advance.

On a side note, how much longer will PAM put up with subpar coaching? Maybe this year we will see a change?

there is a heated discussion on FB about it. the only thing i credit that idiot on is those kids play their hearts out for that clown...he needs to go to a coaching clinic or something. personally i think he is turning the reigns over to harmon, but we will see.

[Bigdog]

On 12/4/2017 at 8:46 PM, pakronos said:

Hey berry, try to see it my way... let’s be honest this district was a three team district with no competition. Those hicks in the neighboring district is even worse. So with the raw talent PAM have, ANY COACH can beat one or both MC schools which promise you a D1 #1 seed. That means you get that weak D1 runner up first rd and some garabsge Houston/Galveston Co school second and that get you past the first two rounds. Then you face real coaching and teams that will crap on MC schools, which at that point is your toughest teams you played lol. I said all that to say this, like all the haters that will hate in August will say, PAM  should be 4th or 5th round every year. Xbox gets out coached in the third rd... that team in 2011 got that far on talent. Example the kid we called the honey badger, didn’t play during Cibolo Steele game, for a good reason, but the freshman corner they put in got picked on and was the weak link. Xbox is not that much different from Dean Colbert. When jamaal left and talent dried up, PAM struggled horribly. When PAM was in 6a with NO GOOD QB play, imo an overhyped running back that’s doing okay now, it showed he could not coach. The only thing I credit Xbox with is the kids will go through the fire for him.

So I guess this domination was supposed to start when Memorial was formed?  Because TJ and Lincoln didn't exactly light things up with the exception of 1929 and 1944 and a couple of years in the 1980s.

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[oldschool2]

On 12/4/2017 at 1:11 PM, L-Train11 said:

I trust you that Temple wasn’t better. I was just trying to make the argument that a team can’t always be judged by how far they advance.

On a side note, how much longer will PAM put up with subpar coaching? Maybe this year we will see a change?

 

How do you know how well of a coaching job they do?  It is quite possible that they just aren't as good as their fans/parents think they are.  But putting the coaching staff on blast isn't going to make them win any more games...I have a lot of friends/family in coaching and none of the ones I know aren't doing everything they can to win games and balance the holding of kids accountable.

And no offense...because I think Babin is an outstanding coach from what I've been told.  But he hasn't had a winning season since he left Deweyville has he?  How much longer is Lumberton going to put up with that?  And wasn't Duboise (Bridge City) like the Texas Coach of the Year or something not too long ago?..  He only won one game this year.  How much longer should Bridge City put up with that?

[L-Train11]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

How do you know how well of a coaching job they do?  It is quite possible that they just aren't as good as their fans/parents think they are.  But putting the coaching staff on blast isn't going to make them win any more games...I have a lot of friends/family in coaching and none of the ones I know aren't doing everything they can to win games and balance the holding of kids accountable.

And no offense...because I think Babin is an outstanding coach from what I've been told.  But he hasn't had a winning season since he left Deweyville has he?  How much longer is Lumberton going to put up with that?  And wasn't Duboise (Bridge City) like the Texas Coach of the Year or something not too long ago?..  He only won one game this year.  How much longer should Bridge City put up with that?

PAM fans accuse him of sub par coaching. As you said, I don’t have a clue how he coaches aside from the two games I’ve watched them play this year. So in that statement I’m purely going off of the opinions of PAM fans.

As far as Coach Babin goes, his first year he took over he went 7-4 and made the playoffs for the first time since 2008 and only the 3rd time in the history of our school. Last year his record was 3-7 and this year 4-5. Overall in district play he is 14-14 in 22-5A. One of those losses last year to Livingston was a horrible loss that shouldn’t have happened but we lost nonetheless. Here’s some key losses that we were very close to winning though:

central: 2 years ago Central beat us on a last second jump ball (in a year when they had one of the top running backs in the nation), last year we blew a two point conversion that could have easily been converted to lose to Central again by 1 point. This year we give up a fumble for a td, and then punt the ball maybe 5 yards giving Central the ball at our own 20 yard line setting them up for a field goal. Other than that they scored 1 offensive td and we lose by I think 9 points?

Vidor: last year we got killed by Vidor due to lack of offensive production (our fault). This year we were back and forth, we’re driving down the field to potentially score and fumbled which was returned for a td. Vidor then does an onside kick and recovers, and from there it was downhill. Even Vidor posters were saying that that game was closer than the score shows.

My point to all of that is this: Lumberton is not “putting up with Babin”!! We are actually quite pleased with him. He has taken a team with virtually no talent compared to the district we are in and has won more games than we probably should have, and have been very close to winning 4 more district games that were within our reach. 

I think it’s funny how people talk about how untalented Lumberton is, but then completely ignore the fact that we are actually staying fairly competitive besides a couple games here and there (one this year in particular against one of the best qbs we will ever face), coach Babin is sitting at .500 in district. That may not be acceptable to some schools around here, but for Lumberton that’s moving in the right direction. Nobody could have expected him to take a historically bad team and start immediately producing playoff teams. 

To compare Lumberton/Bridge City coaches, who coach with practically no talent, to a coach at PAM with all the talent in the world is crazy!

[Stattrax]

Putting Kenny and Babin in the same thread is not really a good thing. Kenny has loads of talent. Speed, skill, the works. Lumberton is short of all of that. But what Kenny has is a fan base that wants to win which is good and bad. Same thing with the Mid County teams. Settling for right direction is one of 2 things. lack of talent, or lack of coaching. You be the judge. That is why the Vidor folk are good with Mathews. My thinking is this. When Vidor wins and makes the Playoffs, any coach could have taken them there because they had some talent that year. Kenny on the other hand can make the playoffs with Me running the offense and Pak running the defense. That is how much talent they have. As a coach, I would much rather the fan base that wants to win and is threatening my job every year vs the upside fans. Because once you have a taste of winning, losing is no longer an option. Lumberton will never compete unless they change up the offensive scheme and play aggressive defense. So not to bust your balls, L Train, its either coaching or talent, take your choice. I promise the coulda, should, woulda stuff will happen every year, because almost every team you play will have more talent and better coaching IMO. PAM has far superior talent due too numbers, but you gotta change the Culture. I am not telling you to start putting for sale signs out, but at the end of the day, the culture you came up in just is not a good one. .500 is not acceptable. For PAM. Fairclothe, or Barrow, wreck shop with those kids in big or small 5A.... Just my opinion...

[L-Train11]

19 minutes ago, Stattrax said:

Putting Kenny and Babin in the same thread is not really a good thing. Kenny has loads of talent. Speed, skill, the works. Lumberton is short of all of that. But what Kenny has is a fan base that wants to win which is good and bad. Same thing with the Mid County teams. Settling for right direction is one of 2 things. lack of talent, or lack of coaching. You be the judge. That is why the Vidor folk are good with Mathews. My thinking is this. When Vidor wins and makes the Playoffs, any coach could have taken them there because they had some talent that year. Kenny on the other hand can make the playoffs with Me running the offense and Pak running the defense. That is how much talent they have. As a coach, I would much rather the fan base that wants to win and is threatening my job every year vs the upside fans. Because once you have a taste of winning, losing is no longer an option. Lumberton will never compete unless they change up the offensive scheme and play aggressive defense. So not to bust your balls, L Train, its either coaching or talent, take your choice. I promise the coulda, should, woulda stuff will happen every year, because almost every team you play will have more talent and better coaching IMO. PAM has far superior talent due too numbers, but you gotta change the Culture. I am not telling you to start putting for sale signs out, but at the end of the day, the culture you came up in just is not a good one. .500 is not acceptable. For PAM. Fairclothe, or Barrow, wreck shop with those kids in big or small 5A.... Just my opinion...

I guess the real question is, if you consider our numbers and talent level compared to our district, should we have done better than .500? I understand that you expect a coach to win, and if Babin continues to build our program up and creates a winners mentality then he will be held accountable to that, but putting a coach in Lumberton and expecting them to make playoffs each year and be beating teams like PAM, Central, PNG, and Nederland is setting somebody up for failure.

[L-Train11]

Stat, my point is there has to be steps taken. Lumberton is NOT PNG or Ned. Nobody expected Babin to take over and BAM now we are powerhouses. He has built this program to the point to where we are averaging a .500 record each season. Now I think it would be safe to say that anything less than that could be deemed unacceptable especially if we were to move to 4A. Now we gotta tip the iceberg and start establishing winning records each year. Do that for maybe 2 or 3 years, then raise the bar to a DC. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and rebuilding a place like Lumberton for football dang sure ain’t gonna happen overnight.

[Stattrax]

3 hours ago, L-Train11 said:

Stat, my point is there has to be steps taken. Lumberton is NOT PNG or Ned. Nobody expected Babin to take over and BAM now we are powerhouses. He has built this program to the point to where we are averaging a .500 record each season. Now I think it would be safe to say that anything less than that could be deemed unacceptable especially if we were to move to 4A. Now we gotta tip the iceberg and start establishing winning records each year. Do that for maybe 2 or 3 years, then raise the bar to a DC. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and rebuilding a place like Lumberton for football dang sure ain’t gonna happen overnight.

You have to build a culture. That includes you. Expect to win, and accept nothing else. It makes everyone better and accountable. Its not arrogance. As long as Lumberton accepts moral victories and rebuilding, the culture will not change. Lumberton has the same opportunities as the rest, they just accept the culture and go with it. It starts with your S.T.J..F.L. squads and works is way up. I know you dont understand it but its the truth. Example, Nederland, Example Crosby now... Look up Nederland before LN, look up Crosby before the last 10 years.

[L-Train11]

23 minutes ago, Stattrax said:

You have to build a culture. That includes you. Expect to win, and accept nothing else. It makes everyone better and accountable. Its not arrogance. As long as Lumberton accepts moral victories and rebuilding, the culture will not change. Lumberton has the same opportunities as the rest, they just accept the culture and go with it. It starts with your S.T.J..F.L. squads and works is way up. I know you dont understand it but its the truth. Example, Nederland, Example Crosby now... Look up Nederland before LN, look up Crosby before the last 10 years.

Your right in everything you said. The only place I’ll dosagree with is when you say I don’t understand, because I do. But if you bring Crosby up as an example, you’ll notice according to the Team history page that they had a dominant year in 2009, other than that over the past decade they didn’t start having those dominant seasons where they only lost a couple of games until 2013 thru now. 2010 they had a losing record, 2011 barely over .500, same with 2008. So, if you look at their history, they started having some succes getting things turned around, hit some bumps along the rode but kept grinding, then ended up where they are now and have been for a few years. Which is exactly what I hope for us to do in Lumberton on that same progression.

So, when I say I’m happy with where Lumberton is i don’t mean that I’m settling for mediocre, I just mean that I understand where we are at this point and time, and while I acknowledge that the goal is to be better I still choose to see that the tide is changing.

[dBerrySports]

Pak, I see your opinion on the whole thing. I don't agree, but obviously nothing I say will change your mind so I'm not really trying to do that. Clearly there are other ppl in this thread that agree with you.

I think it's an insult to say that they have no coaching. I see teams here in Florida that have tons of talent with a true lack of coaching (low pay, no resources don't make for great coaching situations here). Could he do better? Sure. Does he have some of the most talent in the area? Yeah. But to say that the players are basically doing all of this in spite of him seems wrong to me. You say that the players will run through a brick wall for him, that's part of coaching.

I give him credit for staying at PAM with a relatively unappreciative fanbase. Based on what you're saying, you're not the only one that wants him out. I don't get it, kind of reminds me of Mark Richt at UGA. Maybe another coach can take them to the next level. No guarantee though.

Whatever's best for him and PAM, I hope happens. If that means he stays, I hope yall learn to deal. If he leaves, I hope they find a good replacement. Lord knows he's gonna have to deal with fans that want him out even if they go to the 3rd round.