I can admit I was wrong

[CardinalBacker]

19 minutes ago, Bobkat said:

Say Coach T retires this year or within the next 3-5 years, is there anyone on the current staff that can keep the Stangs tradition of winning alive? Cause if they were to go outside the program for a coach, how long would it take for the program to become just normal, or does that mindset of what it takes to be a Stang just carry over regardless of who's calling the shots. I personally believe an outsider regardless of his pedigree would have a hard time keeping the Stangs on an Elite level. They're going to want to do their own thing, and run their program the way they see fit. I just think WOS would have a big drop off, don't get me wrong they would still field some great teams, but state championship teams I just don't know.

I don't think Coach T sticks around much longer.  He's getting into his golden years, and it's no secret that his welcome has worn thin with a lot of the Mustang faithful. 

[studd88]

I don't know who you think his welcome has worn thin with. The proof is in the pudding.

[EAGLEFOREVER]

Well if his welcome has worn thin, what do they want? How could you ask for anything more? Four trips to the state championship in four years, with a record of 3-1. Got faith. They’re fools.

[EAGLEFOREVER]

7 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

In 2015 when the question was asked, “can WOS return to the state championship game,” I said no. 

Before this season started I again answered the same question with “no,” based on the number of talented kids that were lost to graduation. 

Once more I have underestimated the Mustangs, and I stand corrected.

 

You’re a good man

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

I'll bet that once the new Coach at Barbers Hill is fielding a varsity team made up of kids that have been in his program since junior high, we'll all be singing a different tune.  Kids who have never hit the weight room can't make up for 4-6 years of missed gains in a single off-season.  Same goes for trying to pick up fundamentals after years of neglectful coaching.   

Is that what’s happening out in BC?

And just to be fair...you’re implying that the previous coaching staff didn’t lift weights or have an offseason program.  I’m willing to bet that’s not true.  Their new coach may have a DIFFERENT program but that doesn’t mean it’s better or worse.  Time will tell.

[WOSgrad]

13 minutes ago, EAGLEFOREVER said:

Well if his welcome has worn thin, what do they want? How could you ask for anything more? Four trips to the state championship in four years, with a record of 3-1. Got faith. They’re fools.

Actually, while CardinalBacker may have overstated things a little bit, he is not completely wrong either.  There is a faction in Orange which is small but very vocal who are more focused on, shall we say, certain social issues rather than the quality of the Mustang program who will literally dance in the street when Cornel Thompson announces his retirement.  They were vehemently opposed to his hiring and have taken every opportunity that they could to criticize him, even in the last couple of years when the Mustangs have won the last game of the season.

He has had the clout and the support of most of the community which has allowed him to sustain against this faction.  While there are some that are on staff, as well as Mustang alum that are elsewhere, that are capable of maintaining current levels, I am not sure that they have the clout to withstand what Thompson has been able to.  The only saving grace is that the current school board are made up of folks that I trust to be stewards of this program and will see that a successor, whenever that is, will be in tune with maintaining what has kept WO-S on top.

But I don't know that the "whenever" will be anytime soon.

[Uncle Pig]

5 hours ago, Uncle Pig said:

Coach Thompson needs a salary comparable to that of Scott Surratt's. The Carthage coach makes roughly 125K a year. IMO, there's no reason Coach Thompson shouldn't make something comparable.

I stand corrected. Scott Surratt makes 154K

[Uncle Pig]

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[Reagan]

12 minutes ago, Uncle Pig said:

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Very interesting!  From the article: " Carthage ISD raised local property taxes, slashed most teacher benefits, packed students in classrooms, and cut 32.5 teaching, security, transportation and administrative positions."  BUT -- gave the HC a $20,000 raise.  Come on supporters of this type of action, help us understand this!

[Uncle Pig]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

Very interesting!  From the article: " Carthage ISD raised local property taxes, slashed most teacher benefits, packed students in classrooms, and cut 32.5 teaching, security, transportation and administrative positions."  BUT -- gave the HC a $20,000 raise.  Come on supporters of this type of action, help us understand this!

Sounded to me like he created the raise himself. I'm going to quote from the 90's movie "The Program". When was the last time 20,000 people showed up for a UIL academic event?

[kicker 2.0]

4 hours ago, Bobkat said:

Say Coach T retires this year or within the next 3-5 years, is there anyone on the current staff that can keep the Stangs tradition of winning alive? Cause if they were to go outside the program for a coach, how long would it take for the program to become just normal, or does that mindset of what it takes to be a Stang just carry over regardless of who's calling the shots. I personally believe an outsider regardless of his pedigree would have a hard time keeping the Stangs on an Elite level. They're going to want to do their own thing, and run their program the way they see fit. I just think WOS would have a big drop off, don't get me wrong they would still field some great teams, but state championship teams I just don't know.

If and when Coach T retires (which won’t be anytime soon) the program will be handed to A. An alumni or B. A coach that has been in the program long enough to understand the dynamics of the “Mustang Way” i.e. an Eddie Dyer, Mike Pierce, etc. Neither of those two are WOS alumn but have been there long enough to understand the mindset and program! Hell, they both coached me and I graduated in ‘99. 

[griff]

4 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I don't think Coach T sticks around much longer.  He's getting into his golden years, and it's no secret that his welcome has worn thin with a lot of the Mustang faithful. 

You've made many good points until this little bone was thrown out there. In any community, there will always be malcontents who are never happy. If you are saying WO-S has a FEW of those just like every other school, you are correct. If you're saying WO-S is loaded up with people like that, you are mistaken. 

[kicker 2.0]

2 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

Actually, while CardinalBacker may have overstated things a little bit, he is not completely wrong either.  There is a faction in Orange which is small but very vocal who are more focused on, shall we say, certain social issues rather than the quality of the Mustang program who will literally dance in the street when Cornel Thompson announces his retirement.  They were vehemently opposed to his hiring and have taken every opportunity that they could to criticize him, even in the last couple of years when the Mustangs have won the last game of the season.

He has had the clout and the support of most of the community which has allowed him to sustain against this faction.  While there are some that are on staff, as well as Mustang alum that are elsewhere, that are capable of maintaining current levels, I am not sure that they have the clout to withstand what Thompson has been able to.  The only saving grace is that the current school board are made up of folks that I trust to be stewards of this program and will see that a successor, whenever that is, will be in tune with maintaining what has kept WO-S on top.

But I don't know that the "whenever" will be anytime soon.

One step further, there are some that are so focused on just the sheer fact that Coach T was chosen as the next AD/HC and wasn’t “the color skin they wanted”, took their kids out of WOS and put them in other local schools. That’s the “little Johnny syndrome” that I am referring to. How ironic is it that the “other school/schools can’t even make the playoffs much less go to 4 straight SC’s. I pray to God that one day the color of our skin or where we live, come from a different social status goes away. There is no room for racism anymore but yet it’s still here. And it’s on BOTH sides....not just one. I was lucky to be raised by awesome parents that taught me there is no such thing as a color difference.....the same I taught/teach my children...i will just keep praying that others follow suit.....

[Brubaker]

8 hours ago, Reagan said:

Not sure I would agree with this.  But, it's mere speculation on both our parts.  Let's take Aledo, they are playing in the second straight Sate Championship.  Do you think they have better athletes than Nederland or Port Neches?  Or is it coaching?  Back went Art Briles was at Stephenville, he won, what, 4 State titles?!  They've been decent since but not what Briles achieved.   Briles goes to Baylor and has a massive turn-a-round.  He leaves and they got to S**t!  Think back to the Gordon Woods at Brownwood (6 Titles) and G.A. Moore at Celina (5 Titles), you think these people always had the talent?  Or was the athlete coached to get them were they needed to be?  A lot of times coaches will use the "we don't have the talent" excuse to cover for their failings.  By the way, in the 70's, you think PN-G had the overall talent to win as much as they did?  Or was it Doug Ethridge, the coach?

If you were at the Manvel vs. NEDERLAND game, you might have a better perspective.  NEDERLAND was outmanned at 90% of the positions and were within 10 heading to the 4th qtr.  Thats kids playing extremely hard, believing because of their confidence in the program, and coaches coaching out of their minds to give the kids a chance.  I don't know if there's a coach on the planet that could've taken the Nederland kids and beaten Manvel or George Ranch.  It feels good to tyoe it on a messageboard, but reality is in the other corner.

[tennisbc]

If I read right WOS only had 3 returning starters on both offense and defense. Great coaching all around for WOS. How many return from this team next year?

[TxHoops]

10 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

In 2015 when the question was asked, “can WOS return to the state championship game,” I said no. 

Before this season started I again answered the same question with “no,” based on the number of talented kids that were lost to graduation. 

Once more I have underestimated the Mustangs, and I stand corrected.

 

Don’t feel bad.  A lot of us would have lost money betting against it.  19 seniors, 18 starters?  Back to state?  Get the heck outta here.  Oh wait...

I don’t deny WOS has some great athletes, but they are not even a large school anymore for their classification.  They have lost a ton of kids who moved out (there were a few LCM Bears this year that would have been gangbusters at WOS as well).  What they have is one of the greatest defensive minds this state has ever seen and parents who trust the coaches to do their jobs.  They outwork and outprepare virtually everyone (again coaching), and believe it or not millennials, that is still a recipe for success.  

And while Coach T couldn’t go to High Island and win state or send a kid to Saban or the Seahawks, what he could do is make almost any team, anywhere better.  And there are a lot of schools (one or two even in this area) that have very good programs that he would push to the next level IMO (I.e., state).  Lucky for the Mustang faithful, Coach T learned home is where the heart is and will retire one day as yet another Texas High School coaching legend from the fruit city...

[TxHoops]

5 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I don't think Coach T sticks around much longer.  He's getting into his golden years, and it's no secret that his welcome has worn thin with a lot of the Mustang faithful. 

Yes 40 in a row, 4 straight trips to state.  How could his welcome not have worn thin being instrumental in building arguably the greatest program in the greatest HS football state.   You need to stop eavesdropping near the short bus pal....

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, Brubaker said:

If you were at the Manvel vs. NEDERLAND game, you might have a better perspective.  NEDERLAND was outmanned at 90% of the positions and were within 10 heading to the 4th qtr.  Thats kids playing extremely hard, believing because of their confidence in the program, and coaches coaching out of their minds to give the kids a chance.  I don't know if there's a coach on the planet that could've taken the Nederland kids and beaten Manvel or George Ranch.  It feels good to tyoe it on a messageboard, but reality is in the other corner.

One has to wonder if Cornel Thompson, Art Briles, Doug Ethridge or Steve Wood (Aledo coach) was Nederland's coach would the outcome have been different?  Again, mere speculation.

[kicker 2.0]

5 minutes ago, TxHoops said:

Yes 40 in a row, 4 straight trips to state.  How could his welcome not have worn thin being instrumental in building arguably the greatest program in the greatest HS football state.   You need to stop eavesdropping near the short bus pal....

It started with Mcardy in 1977, turned over to Hooks and Thompson a few years later then ultimately completely turned over to Thompson. I don’t care what other teams may say. West Orange Stark is the winningest and most successful HS football team in the history of Texas. Just look at the records, stats, etc. Once they get to the 500 game mark(early next year) no one will be even close. Does anyone outside that doesn’t understand in 40 years they have an 81% winning percentage?? That’s averaging 1-2 losses a year!! That is beyond insane!! 

[Reagan]

Let's take a look at Aledo.  I watched their State game last year and have to admit, their athletes did not look that exceptional.  But, a little history:  In the past 18 years, Aledo has won "7" State Titles.  Now, is Aledo a place where a school would get that kind of so-called talent year in and year out.  I would say no.  Just like I talked about Briles and Stephenville.  It's about picking the right coach.

[TxHoops]

4 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Let's take a look at Aledo.  I watched their State game last year and have to admit, their athletes did not look that exceptional.  But, a little history:  In the past 18 years, Aledo has won "7" State Titles.  Now, is Aledo a place where a school would get that kind of so-called talent year in and year out.  I would say no.  Just like I talked about Briles and Stephenville.  It's about picking the right coach.

Briles is a great example.  If he had stayed at Wolforth Frenship, he very well could have gotten one there as well. 

[griff]

At first glance of the "I Can Admit I Was Wrong" headline, I thought CardinalBacker's explanation would be...

"Silsbee does NOT suck."

I can admit...I was wrong, too. 

 

[Old school eagle]

At first glance I thought he was going to apologize for saying Newton sucks. Hard to respect someone who talks about 14 to 18 year old kids like that.

 

[oldschool2]

12 hours ago, TxHoops said:

Don’t feel bad.  A lot of us would have lost money betting against it.  19 seniors, 18 starters?  Back to state?  Get the heck outta here.  Oh wait...

I don’t deny WOS has some great athletes, but they are not even a large school anymore for their classification.  They have lost a ton of kids who moved out (there were a few LCM Bears this year that would have been gangbusters at WOS as well).  What they have is one of the greatest defensive minds this state has ever seen and parents who trust the coaches to do their jobs.  They outwork and outprepare virtually everyone (again coaching), and believe it or not millennials, that is still a recipe for success.  

And while Coach T couldn’t go to High Island and win state or send a kid to Saban or the Seahawks, what he could do is make almost any team, anywhere better.  And there are a lot of schools (one or two even in this area) that have very good programs that he would push to the next level IMO (I.e., state).  Lucky for the Mustang faithful, Coach T learned home is where the heart is and will retire one day as yet another Texas High School coaching legend from the fruit city...

4

There is no denying.  My point is simply this...he might go to High Island and turn a 5.5 second 40 into a 5.0 second 40... but a 5.0 second 40 is still not fast enough.  And he may turn a 140lb bench press into a 180lb bench press...but that's still weak.  So yeah he might make them better given enough time and community support, but there will be no state championships.  

[TxHoops]

6 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

There is no denying.  My point is simply this...he might go to High Island and turn a 5.5 second 40 into a 5.0 second 40... but a 5.0 second 40 is still not fast enough.  And he may turn a 140lb bench press into a 180lb bench press...but that's still weak.  So yeah he might make them better given enough time and community support, but there will be no state championships.  

Likewise there are very few HS coaches out there, anywhere that could take a team that lost 18 starters and go undefeated heading into the state championship game.  Of all the great coaching jobs Cornel has done, this year has been so good it’s absolutely ridiculous.