The coach debate

[oldschool2]

56 minutes ago, EAGLEFOREVER said:

There is no recent been this way for twenty years

What way?  They won it all in 05 right?  I know that’s relatively recent...especially to an old fart like me.  But in 05 the kids on this year’s team hadn’t even started kindergarten yet. So it’s not that recent.  But what I’m referring to as recent they spent the better part of a decade bowing out about round 3.  

All of the sudden they split all of the districts (4A and down) in half and they make it to the title game 2 out of 4 years.  I’m not saying they weren’t really good...in fact they maybe could’ve beaten the champ in D1 had they played.

But to think that the UIL didn’t help out is a little naive.  It actually happens every other year...whatever number that UIL deams as “the cutoff” creates brand new winners and brand new losers for 2 years at a time.

[CardinalBacker]

17 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

What way?  They won it all in 05 right?  I know that’s relatively recent...especially to an old fart like me.  But in 05 the kids on this year’s team hadn’t even started kindergarten yet. So it’s not that recent.  But what I’m referring to as recent they spent the better part of a decade bowing out about round 3.  

All of the sudden they split all of the districts (4A and down) in half and they make it to the title game 2 out of 4 years.  I’m not saying they weren’t really good...in fact they maybe could’ve beaten the champ in D1 had they played.

But to think that the UIL didn’t help out is a little naive.  It actually happens every other year...whatever number that UIL deams as “the cutoff” creates brand new winners and brand new losers for 2 years at a time.

Preach!

[oldschool2]

29 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Preach!

Not sure why nobody ever talks about that... 

[EAGLEFOREVER]

2 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

What way?  They won it all in 05 right?  I know that’s relatively recent...especially to an old fart like me.  But in 05 the kids on this year’s team hadn’t even started kindergarten yet. So it’s not that recent.  But what I’m referring to as recent they spent the better part of a decade bowing out about round 3.  

All of the sudden they split all of the districts (4A and down) in half and they make it to the title game 2 out of 4 years.  I’m not saying they weren’t really good...in fact they maybe could’ve beaten the champ in D1 had they played.

But to think that the UIL didn’t help out is a little naive.  It actually happens every other year...whatever number that UIL deams as “the cutoff” creates brand new winners and brand new losers for 2 years at a time.

They have been split for twenty years, have they made it easier, yes. Yet like you stated who knows if Dll could beat Dl they never played. But the UIL made this decision, not anybody else you play with the hand you are dealt. If it was up to me I would have Dl play Dll. Either way the coach matters. I have seen great teams loose because of coaching errors.

[EAGLEFOREVER]

This is a bunch of high school kids we are talking about. Where anything from Mom  and Dad are having a fight to Mary broke up with Johnny could affect the game. Psychy has a lot to do with this game. 

[Reagan]

Back in the late 80's, PN-G was coached, as HC, by one of the best offensive line coaches in the state of Texas, Butch Troy.  Not very successful, though, as a HC.  His last year, 1988, Troy went 1-8.  Danny Malone came in the next year and went 12-2 and, if I recall right, was one game from playing in the State Championship.  So, different coach, same bunch of kids.  Was it coaching that made the difference?  IMO, yes.

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

Back in the late 80's, PN-G was coached, as HC, by one of the best offensive line coaches in the state of Texas, Butch Troy.  Not very successful, though, as a HC.  His last year, 1988, Troy went 1-8.  Danny Malone came in the next year and went 12-2 and, if I recall right, was one game from playing in the State Championship.  So, different coach, same bunch of kids.  Was it coaching that made the difference?  IMO, yes.

Great example.  I guess I can’t argue that point.

Well...unless I say this.  Danny Malone came in and led PNG to a 12-3 record his first year and a Round 4 loss.  But then the very next year he went 7-4 and was shutout in Round 1.  Um...was it coaching that made the difference?

It’s simple.  Kids graduate...or improve.  At EVERY school on the schedule.  Maybe a few of the other schools had big senior groups the year before he got there...I don’t know. Saying that he came in year one with the same kids as the year before is not true.  Unless you think that a bunch of 16 year old sophomores are the exact same players that they will be as 17 year old juniors.  I’m not saying that’s the exact scenario but I think you get my point.  A LOT changes from one year to the next.  Even if one team has the same kids...because other teams may not have the same kids.

 

[Reagan]

17 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Great example.  I guess I can’t argue that point.

Well...unless I say this.  Danny Malone came in and led PNG to a 12-3 record his first year and a Round 4 loss.  But then the very next year he went 7-4 and was shutout in Round 1.  Um...was it coaching that made the difference?

It’s simple.  Kids graduate...or improve.  At EVERY school on the schedule.  Maybe a few of the other schools had big senior groups the year before he got there...I don’t know. Saying that he came in year one with the same kids as the year before is not true.  Unless you think that a bunch of 16 year old sophomores are the exact same players that they will be as 17 year old juniors.  I’m not saying that’s the exact scenario but I think you get my point.  A LOT changes from one year to the next.  Even if one team has the same kids...because other teams may not have the same kids.

 

True on the second part.  The previous 5 years PN-G only a total of 12 wins.  Malone comes in and wins 12 his first year.  Didn't have any athletes the previous 5 years and now this one year have a bunch?  Well..  You get my point?  Malone did make the playoffs in his 2 years there.  Would have been interesting to see what he could have done in year 3, 4, or 5. 

[oldschool2]

30 minutes ago, Reagan said:

True on the second part.  The previous 5 years PN-G only a total of 12 wins.  Malone comes in and wins 12 his first year.  Didn't have any athletes the previous 5 years and now this one year have a bunch?  Well..  You get my point?  Malone did make the playoffs in his 2 years there.  Would have been interesting to see what he could have done in year 3, 4, or 5. 

I don’t know what happened.  But 12 in his 1st year...and 7 the next.  That’s literally 1 game away from only winning half as many games one year later.  I mean...I’m sure it was because they were gutted by graduation.  But according to your logic there’s no reason they didn’t win 12 again.

[Reagan]

9 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I don’t know what happened.  But 12 in his 1st year...and 7 the next.  That’s literally 1 game away from only winning half as many games one year later.  I mean...I’m sure it was because they were gutted by graduation.  But according to your logic there’s no reason they didn’t win 12 again.

True, we don't know what happened.  All we know for a fact is he took a school that only won 12 games in the previous 5 years and went 12-2 and one game away from the State Title.  That much we do know for a fact. 

[oldschool2]

31 minutes ago, Reagan said:

True, we don't know what happened.  All we know for a fact is he took a school that only won 12 games in the previous 5 years and went 12-2 and one game away from the State Title.  That much we do know for a fact. 

That is a fact.  It is also a fact that the same coach got shut out in round 1 the following year.

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

That is a fact.  It is also a fact that the same coach got shut out in round 1 the following year.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed.  Let's take for instance Steve Wood at Aledo:  He was on his way to another Title.  But, unfortunately, and sadly for the young man, 2 extra points were missed.  Making those two extra points would have gone a long way toward anther Title.  But, again, no guarantees.  Also, when two great coaches compete against one another, something has to give.  I figured C. Thompson would have had a field day against a Wing-T team in the Title game.  But early on I saw WOS may have their hands full.  The other team had a great coach also!

It's always an interesting topic to discuss why PN-G hasn't won a State Title since Doug Ethridge left.  Hadn't ever had the talent since?  I'm sure they have.  Also, I'm sure with the quality of a coach such as Art Briles, Steve Wood, etc, PN-G may have had a Title this year.  Again, speculation and no guarantees!  But interesting on both none the less!

[90yshallow]

10% Luck

15% Coaching (scheme/Rah-Rah)

75% Athlete 

[Tigers2010]

1A-3A

70% Athletes 30% Coaching

4A-5A 60/40 Athletes/Coaching

6A 50/50 Athletes Coaching

 

[PlayActionPass]

Like Coach T is fond of saying:

"You can't win the Kentucky Derby riding a mule."

[fox]

1 hour ago, PlayActionPass said:

Like Coach T is fond of saying:

"You can't win the Kentucky Derby riding a mule."

 if you don't get your thoroughbred to the derby you won't win either.....

[Tigers2010]

15 minutes ago, fox said:

 if you don't get your thoroughbred to the derby you won't win either.....

Correct. Coaches drive the bus, players win the game...haha

[Reagan]

3 hours ago, PlayActionPass said:

Like Coach T is fond of saying:

"You can't win the Kentucky Derby riding a mule."

A coach will never take the credit.  Coaches have many sayings like that. 

[ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING]

9 minutes ago, Reagan said:

A coach will never take the credit.  Coaches have many sayings like that. 

With being said, how is that trash down 87  coach crap should be fire crouch but nobody else probably doesn't want that terrible job but him go 46 and 46, making almost 20k more than 84 and 19 4 time state championship coach because hooks didn't doing anything, than coach Thompson explain plz why is he under paid.

[TxHoops]

2 hours ago, ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING said:

With being said, how is that trash down 87  coach crap should be fire crouch but nobody else probably doesn't want that terrible job but him go 46 and 46, making almost 20k more than 84 and 19 4 time state championship coach because hooks didn't doing anything, than coach Thompson explain plz why is he under paid.

One of my most enjoyable HS football game spectator experiences came after a Hurricane (Rita, I think) when WOS and BC were playing a pretty big district game on a Saturday.  Beasley and ETIII were both playing for the Mustangs and Johnny Dishon was doing everything for the Cards.  Anyway, the press box had been jacked up by the Hurricane so some of the WOS assistant coaches were up in a corner of the visitors' bleachers, pretty distant from the visiting fans.  I was sitting with a buddy (who has been tight with that staff) right in front of them and  they were communicating by walkie talkie.  I won't repeat anything specific but the exchanges between Dan Ray and Crouch on play calling/selection were worth about 10 times the price of admission I paid that day.  Hooks was as funny as they come on the sideline. 

[ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING]

13 hours ago, TxHoops said:

One of my most enjoyable HS football game spectator experiences came after a Hurricane (Rita, I think) when WOS and BC were playing a pretty big district game on a Saturday.  Beasley and ETIII were both playing for the Mustangs and Johnny Dishon was doing everything for the Cards.  Anyway, the press box had been jacked up by the Hurricane so some of the WOS assistant coaches were up in a corner of the visitors' bleachers, pretty distant from the visiting fans.  I was sitting with a buddy (who has been tight with that staff) right in front of them and  they were communicating by walkie talkie.  I won't repeat anything specific but the exchanges between Dan Ray and Crouch on play calling/selection were worth about 10 times the price of admission I paid that day.  Hooks was as funny as they come on the sideline. 

Lol

[ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING]

13 hours ago, TxHoops said:

One of my most enjoyable HS football game spectator experiences came after a Hurricane (Rita, I think) when WOS and BC were playing a pretty big district game on a Saturday.  Beasley and ETIII were both playing for the Mustangs and Johnny Dishon was doing everything for the Cards.  Anyway, the press box had been jacked up by the Hurricane so some of the WOS assistant coaches were up in a corner of the visitors' bleachers, pretty distant from the visiting fans.  I was sitting with a buddy (who has been tight with that staff) right in front of them and  they were communicating by walkie talkie.  I won't repeat anything specific but the exchanges between Dan Ray and Crouch on play calling/selection were worth about 10 times the price of admission I paid that day.  Hooks was as funny as they come on the sideline. 

I bet your fire was said at least a 100 times 

[WOSgrad]

14 hours ago, TxHoops said:

One of my most enjoyable HS football game spectator experiences came after a Hurricane (Rita, I think) when WOS and BC were playing a pretty big district game on a Saturday.  Beasley and ETIII were both playing for the Mustangs and Johnny Dishon was doing everything for the Cards.  Anyway, the press box had been jacked up by the Hurricane so some of the WOS assistant coaches were up in a corner of the visitors' bleachers, pretty distant from the visiting fans.  I was sitting with a buddy (who has been tight with that staff) right in front of them and  they were communicating by walkie talkie.  I won't repeat anything specific but the exchanges between Dan Ray and Crouch on play calling/selection were worth about 10 times the price of admission I paid that day.  Hooks was as funny as they come on the sideline. 

I'm glad that you didn't get specific as given what I have heard, I'd bet I'd have to delete most of Dan Hook's quotes as a violation of forum rules, if you know what I mean.

[TxHoops]

44 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

I'm glad that you didn't get specific as given what I have heard, I'd bet I'd have to delete most of Dan Hook's quotes as a violation of forum rules, if you know what I mean.

I do know what you mean!   I also wouldn’t want to divulge conversations not meant for public consumption but as you well know, Hooks certainly has a way with words.  The challenge that day was not to bust out laughing.  I’m sure I looked like I was freezing from all the shaking!

[Tiger33]

19 hours ago, ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING said:

With being said, how is that trash down 87  coach crap should be fire crouch but nobody else probably doesn't want that terrible job but him go 46 and 46, making almost 20k more than 84 and 19 4 time state championship coach because hooks didn't doing anything, than coach Thompson explain plz why is he under paid.

To answer your question. LCM school tax is probably one the highest in the county last I checked a few years ago. The “trash”  that you speak about in football has a overall winning record over Vidor, orangefield and Bridge City. If we are trash what are they? With WOS leading the wins in OC we are at 2nd.  LC-M did bring up Crouch at the school board from what I Hear and one board member was oppose of not making any changes. There’s have been plenty of people complaining. I’d rather pay higher taxes for a winning coach for my trash of neighbor hood lol.