Englebert Posted February 18, 2018 Report Posted February 18, 2018 Since the latest school shooting, I've been (predictably) hearing many Liberals spouting their tired old rhetoric about gun control. Not only are they blaming "gun nuts" for not offering any solutions, many have even implied and outright stated that these "have blood on their hands". My question is "What have you proposed? Who really has blood on their hands?" This topic is an open invitation for anyone (on either side) to propose gun legislation ideas that will curtail gun violence in America. Please give your ideas for solutions. If you propose stricter background checks, please explain what questions/checks should be included to identify those you deem not worthy of exercising their 2nd amendment rights. If you propose banning gun ownership for the mentally disturbed, please provide guidelines for sane people to identify those unfit to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. If you propose banning certain guns, please clarify which guns should be banned versus those that should be kept legal for those exercising their 2nd amendment rights. Liberals keep chanting "We want sensible gun legislation". Here's your chance to outline these sensible ideas. Why do I have a feeling none will be forthcoming? Ah, yes...history. Quote
baddog Posted February 18, 2018 Report Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Englebert said: Since the latest school shooting, I've been (predictably) hearing many Liberals spouting their tired old rhetoric about gun control. Not only are they blaming "gun nuts" for not offering any solutions, many have even implied and outright stated that these "have blood on their hands". My question is "What have you proposed? Who really has blood on their hands?" This topic is an open invitation for anyone (on either side) to propose gun legislation ideas that will curtail gun violence in America. Please give your ideas for solutions. If you propose stricter background checks, please explain what questions/checks should be included to identify those you deem not worthy of exercising their 2nd amendment rights. If you propose banning gun ownership for the mentally disturbed, please provide guidelines for sane people to identify those unfit to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. If you propose banning certain guns, please clarify which guns should be banned versus those that should be kept legal for those exercising their 2nd amendment rights. Liberals keep chanting "We want sensible gun legislation". Here's your chance to outline these sensible ideas. Why do I have a feeling none will be forthcoming? Ah, yes...history. It all boils down to acceptable losses. Had this idiot killed 5 or 6 kids with a knife or machete, it would make the news but the knife and machete would be safe. Quote
PAMFAM10 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Posted February 18, 2018 Are we ready to expect mass shootings as American culture? Quote
baddog Posted February 18, 2018 Report Posted February 18, 2018 Already accept gangland shootings as the norm with gun control contributing absolutely nothing to curbing it. That happens every day of the year. Can more legislation stop it? 77 1 Quote
Englebert Posted February 18, 2018 Author Report Posted February 18, 2018 4 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said: Are we ready to expect mass shootings as American culture? So no answers, no solutions, just more rhetoric? Here's your opportunity to offer a solution. Quote
PhatMack19 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 5 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said: Are we ready to expect mass shootings as American culture? 150 people have died in school shootings since 1990. Less than 6 a year 5,000 teens are killed a year in car crashes and 400,000 are seriously injured. We probably shouldn’t let them drive. 5GallonBucket, Ty Cobb, bullets13 and 1 other 4 Quote
jv_coach Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up Quote
jv_coach Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 8 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said: Are we ready to expect mass shootings as American culture? Not only do the rates of mass murder (and attempted mass murder) in England more than rival the United States, but in England, the rates are climbing fast, prompting many English leaders to call this This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up . Can you imagine living in a city where mass killings are so common that the Mayor of that city, rather than denounce the killings, tells the public to get used to it? That’s London. That’s what everyone here wants to emulate. Unless someone is less dead when killed by a bomb or run over by a van than when shot by a gun, England has a far bigger problem than we do. It’s not all about jihad either. England has a This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up that rivals the United States, even withoutcounting jihad, when one considers the comparable sizes of England and the United States. The British seem to prefer using bombs, and fire, as mass-murder weapons, but if anything it turns out that bombs and fire can kill more people than can guns. The British also like using knives to kill each other, with a rate of knife homicides that is so bad that This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up . A look at a common London newspaper shows that This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up , in terms of murder rates, as are any of our cities. This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up Quote
Hagar Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 And the Mayor of London is, drum roll please, a Muslim. Of course, we have our share of idiot mayors, who aren't Muslim, but I suspect London would go a little easier on jihadist. Quote
Hagar Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, jv_coach said: This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up Sorry coach, but I can't tell if this is real or a joke. It should be a joke, but Maxine is uniquely qualified to have written this, word for word. What a congressional embarrassment. jv_coach 1 Quote
PAMFAM10 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 8 hours ago, Englebert said: So no answers, no solutions, just more rhetoric? Here's your opportunity to offer a solution. Rhetoric? I just asked a question. Somebody somewhere will try this again do we just do nothing. Is this the new normal? Quote
PAMFAM10 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 7 hours ago, PhatMack19 said: 150 people have died in school shootings since 1990. Less than 6 a year 5,000 teens are killed a year in car crashes and 400,000 are seriously injured. We probably shouldn’t let them drive. Cars were invented to be driven guns to kill. We have added air bags seatbelts tail lights break lights etc etc to make cars safe. Its harder to get a license than to get a gun. It’s also easy to have a judge void your drivers license than a gun license. Why compare the two. Im not saying we take guns or whatever I’m just asking where can we start. Talking about cars and liberals will not fix anything. Yeoj 1 Quote
Reagan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, PAMFAM10 said: Cars were invented to be driven guns to kill. We have added air bags seatbelts tail lights break lights etc etc to make cars safe. Its harder to get a license than to get a gun. It’s also easy to have a judge void your drivers license than a gun license. Why compare the two. Im not saying we take guns or whatever I’m just asking where can we start. Talking about cars and liberals will not fix anything. I have guns and I have NEVER killed anyone. So -- there may be other reasons this is happening other than guns. I've never seen a gun just jump up and kill someone. Hollering gun control is the easy way out. Quote
BS Wildcats Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 5 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said: Cars were invented to be driven guns to kill. We have added air bags seatbelts tail lights break lights etc etc to make cars safe. Its harder to get a license than to get a gun. It’s also easy to have a judge void your drivers license than a gun license. Why compare the two. Im not saying we take guns or whatever I’m just asking where can we start. Talking about cars and liberals will not fix anything. Why do you think guns are meant to kill? Just as Reagan stated, I own several as well, and have never killed anyone. You need to stop listening to the idiot liberals, such as Maxine Waters. Quote
Englebert Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 6 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said: Rhetoric? I just asked a question. Somebody somewhere will try this again do we just do nothing. Is this the new normal? Yes, rhetoric. My post specifically asked for solutions and you offered none. Your post implicitly stated that you are not happy about the current gun laws, and you chose to convey that point without offering any solutions...just as everyone else does that screams "gun control". So yes, rhetoric. Is it the new normal? What are your suggestings as solutions for it not becoming the new normal? Quote
Englebert Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 7 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said: Cars were invented to be driven guns to kill. We have added air bags seatbelts tail lights break lights etc etc to make cars safe. Its harder to get a license than to get a gun. It’s also easy to have a judge void your drivers license than a gun license. Why compare the two. Im not saying we take guns or whatever I’m just asking where can we start. Talking about cars and liberals will not fix anything. If a person purposely drives a car into a crowd of people, killing some of them, are you going to blame the car? Will you shout to the rooftops about "car control"? I don't know about all guns, but my guns were designed, manufactured, purchased, and used for self defense. And cars do not have a whole amendment protecting their right of ownership and use. The comparison is obvious between the two. Many, more so on the Left, are livid about "lives being taken by guns", but casually accept the fact that (many more) "lives are being taken by cars". Why the outrage for one but not the other? As you stated, many safety features have been added over the years to make cars safer to operate. What features do you propose should be added to guns to make them safer to operate? I started this whole topic asking for solutions. The Liberals are the ones who show indignation for anyone that doesn't accept their solutions for gun control. The problem is that they have never offered any sensible solutions. So yes, pointing out Liberal rhetoric in this discussion is fair...and necessary. It is the Liberals that are co-opting the topic to a purely political one. By forcing them to articulate their solutions, they can be stripped of their asinine talking points and be exposed to offer viable solutions. Letting Liberals solicit votes from a tragedy will not fix anything. Quote
PAMFAM10 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, BS Wildcats said: Why do you think guns are meant to kill? Just as Reagan stated, I own several as well, and have never killed anyone. You need to stop listening to the idiot liberals, such as Maxine Waters. Not trying to argue but, you don’t believe the gun was made to kill. I know many use it as self defense but it was made to kill Quote
Ty Cobb Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 I've done a little research and have come up with the following: Deaths by GUNS in the U.S.A. Source-New York Times (2016) -33,000 people die in firearm related deaths each year. -62% (20,460) of these are suicides -13,000 or 38% are homicides -2% (660) of total firearm deaths are from mass shootings. Deaths by CARS in the U.S.A Source-Association For Safe International Road Ravel (2016) -37,000 die in crashes each year. An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled each year Deaths by DRUGS in the U.S.A Source-National Institute on Drug Abuse (2016) -64,070 deaths from drug overdose Deaths from HEART DISEASE in the U.S.A Source-Centers for Disease Control and Prevention -610,000 die of heart disease each year Key risk factors of heart disease: -high blood pressure -smoking -diabetes -overweight & obesity -poor diet -lack of physical Guns kill people, there is no doubt about it, but we have bigger problems than guns. Heart disease kills over 600,000 people each year. What are we doing about the foods that people eat? Why are there so many fast food places? Why are Health and Physical Education being taken out of public schools? Englebert and Hagar 2 Quote
PAMFAM10 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, Englebert said: If a person purposely drives a car into a crowd of people, killing some of them, are you going to blame the car? Will you shout to the rooftops about "car control"? I don't know about all guns, but my guns were designed, manufactured, purchased, and used for self defense. And cars do not have a whole amendment protecting their right of ownership and use. The comparison is obvious between the two. Many, more so on the Left, are livid about "lives being taken by guns", but casually accept the fact that (many more) "lives are being taken by cars". Why the outrage for one but not the other? As you stated, many safety features have been added over the years to make cars safer to operate. What features do you propose should be added to guns to make them safer to operate? I started this whole topic asking for solutions. The Liberals are the ones who show indignation for anyone that doesn't accept their solutions for gun control. The problem is that they have never offered any sensible solutions. So yes, pointing out Liberal rhetoric in this discussion is fair...and necessary. It is the Liberals that are co-opting the topic to a purely political one. By forcing them to articulate their solutions, they can be stripped of their asinine talking points and be exposed to offer viable solutions. Letting Liberals solicit votes from a tragedy will not fix anything. The whole car argument just make no sense cars were made to drive majority of car deaths are accidents people are not accidentally shooting up schools. I’m not for or against gun control. Thats why I asked is this the new normal? Quote
Englebert Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said: Not trying to argue but, you don’t believe the gun was made to kill. I know many use it as self defense but it was made to kill Guns are made for the purpose that the owner wants it to be. My guns are made for self-protection. Some guns are made to kill animals for food. Some guns are made for sport. Some guns are made to kill. It all depends on the person operating the gun. If a person drives a vehicle to work, is that vehicle made to kill? If a person drives a vehicle into a crowd of people, is that car made to kill? Is the purpose of a tool defined by the tool or the person using the tool? Quote
Englebert Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, PAMFAM10 said: The whole car argument just make no sense cars were made to drive majority of car deaths are accidents people are not accidentally shooting up schools. I’m not for or against gun control. Thats why I asked is this the new normal? That's why I keep asking for solutions. My responses to you are really meant to be generalized to the Left (especially the Liberal politicians) who passionately advocate for gun confiscation in the form of gun control. I realize you are not part of that particular group, but I respond to your posts because you seem to be the only one from the Left that has the guts to post on this topic. I apologize if you are anyone interpret my responses as an attack on you. I'm really just trying to provoke the Left into revealing their true agenda. If only they would respond. Quote
LumRaiderFan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 My solution is that we have to make the schools safer. Allow teachers that want to carry and are willing to be trained to have firearms in our schools. The coach that lost his life while shielding students should have had the opportunity to defend himself and others. The truth is that we can pass gobs of restrictive, ridiculous laws (in the name of “WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, of course) and it won’t stop another shooter from walking through the school doors somewhere and when he does, what do you propose we do. I have guns in my house for protection…my protection is not hoping that we can pass enough laws to stop the bad guys from getting a gun and coming into my home, it’s my guns. Kids in school deserve the same protection. We aren’t going to stop the crazies from walking into a school and start shooting, but we can get serious and figure out the best ways to stop them when they do. Hagar, baddog and Englebert 3 Quote
BS Wildcats Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 Where was the outrage when Kate Steinle was gunned down by an illegal? Where was the outrage after the Sandy Hook massacre? Wait obama was in office, there's the answer. People thought that sob could do no wrong. Nothing was his fault. 77 and Reagan 2 Quote
PhatMack19 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Posted February 19, 2018 8 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said: Not trying to argue but, you don’t believe the gun was made to kill. I know many use it as self defense but it was made to kill Do you blame the gun when cops shoot people? Reagan 1 Quote
Hook'em Posted February 20, 2018 Report Posted February 20, 2018 It's hard for me to believe any gun law will change anything. People that choose to commit mass murder are not going to follow laws or regulations, it's just that simple. Drugs are illegal, but there are plenty of ways to get them if you choose to do so, weapons are the same in the sense of availability in a black market setting. I want to see anyone that commits mass murder tried and convicted of domestic terrorism and shipped to GTMO, I think stricter punishment would probably have more of a positive effect than stricter gun laws that criminals will ignore no matter what. LumRaiderFan and WOSgrad 2 Quote
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