Livingston is Open

[oldschool2]

18 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

You undoubtedly didn't watch Highland Park take down Manvel in the SC game this December.  

I'm not saying the field is level.  Some schools definitely get their share and then some when it comes to talent.  But to outright claim that a school has no talented athletes just because they traditionally have a losing record is making a pretty big assumption.  

You also have to look at what is created by coaching.  Are we going to pretend that WOS would be WOS without their strength and conditioning program?  The fat kids who have decent o-line coaches tend to mature and control games.... I don't care how athletic a big boy is, without coaching he'll never amount to anything in regards to football success that translates into the next level.  A big part of coaching isn't just the x's and o's.  It's about motivating kids to do the work in the offseason and practice that will develop the kid into a force.  It's not like you just take your genetic lottery card and are naturally assured championships if yours is a good one.  

There's a common misconception among supporters of schools that seem to have "more than their share" of talented kids.... the misconception is that they are succeeding based on their talent alone.

Did all of the talented kids at Coldspring just so happen to move out of town at the same time Barbray did?  I think not. 

"coaching + talent usually combine to beat coaching OR talent" is a more accurate analysis.  

I watched every second of the Highland Park game. Are you inferring that HP had zero talent?..because they were riddled with college athletes as well.

And are you going to pretend that Coach Thompson is the SOLE reason that WOS is what they are?  Nothing to do with all of the D1 kids they graduate every year huh..  I'm not saying he isn't a great coach.  I'm not even saying he isn't the best coach in the area but I'd bet every penny I've ever made, have, or ever will make that if Cornell Thompson took the Head Football job at Livingston, Bridge City, or High Island he would never win a second-round playoff game nor  get another ring if he stayed 20 years.  I'm sorry to say but if you think he would then you're wrong.

Speaking of that...it should be about time for Barbers Hill to be winning a state championship, right?  It's Westerberg's 3rd year.  I figure they at least make it to round 3.  Based on the above logic he should be on his way to at least getting some district championships or something. 

[EnjoyLife]

We all know programs that have won consistently for decades...and we all know programs just down the road from them that have lost consistently for decades. Why is that? I do not believe God just anoited kids in one zipcode with more ability to play football than kids in another zipcode. Im not talking about that rare 4*-5* player that happens to come along...Im talking about the kids that will not play beyond hs that make up the bulk of teams (even successful one's).

[PlayActionPass]

30 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I watched every second of the Highland Park game. Are you inferring that HP had zero talent?..because they were riddled with college athletes as well.

And are you going to pretend that Coach Thompson is the SOLE reason that WOS is what they are?  Nothing to do with all of the D1 kids they graduate every year huh..  I'm not saying he isn't a great coach.  I'm not even saying he isn't the best coach in the area but I'd bet every penny I've ever made, have, or ever will make that if Cornell Thompson took the Head Football job at Livingston, Bridge City, or High Island he would never win a second-round playoff game nor  get another ring if he stayed 20 years.  I'm sorry to say but if you think he would then you're wrong.

Speaking of that...it should be about time for Barbers Hill to be winning a state championship, right?  It's Westerberg's 3rd year.  I figure they at least make it to round 3.  Based on the above logic he should be on his way to at least getting some district championships or something. 

Nail hit squarely on the HEAD.

NO coach wins championships of any kind (District, Regional, State) without some high level talent.

NO teams wins championships without a high quality coach and staff, regardless of the quality of talent.

It is a marriage, both parties might NOT be EQUAL, but it takes both of them to make it successful.

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, PlayActionPass said:

Nail hit squarely on the HEAD.

NO coach wins championships of any kind (District, Regional, State) without some high level talent.

NO teams wins championships without a high quality coach and staff, regardless of the quality of talent.

It is a marriage, both parties might NOT be EQUAL, but it takes both of them to make it successful.

talent + coaching + level of competition = success

It takes all 3.

[PlayActionPass]

4 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

talent + coaching + level of competition = success

It takes all 3.

Level of competition, meaning in the right classification for the talent you have?

[oldschool2]

6 minutes ago, PlayActionPass said:

Level of competition, meaning in the right classification for the talent you have?

That's exactly what I mean.  It even took WOS and Newton dropping into a smaller classification to win it all.  Just sayin..

[PlayActionPass]

6 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

That's exactly what I mean.  It even took WOS and Newton dropping into a smaller classification to win it all.  Just sayin..

Oh I agree with you 100%

To win Championships, you have to be at least on equal footing. And, it always helps to have that slight competitive advantage.

[90yshallow]

You guys don't know what you're talking about.  Herman Boone won a state championship at TC Williams running the split back veer with a white quarterback.  Don't give me this non-sense about talent.

[shepherddad]

HARD WORK BEATS TALENT, WHEN TALENT DOESN'T WORK HARD!!!!!!

[oldschool2]

35 minutes ago, 90yshallow said:

You guys don't know what you're talking about.  Herman Boone won a state championship at TC Williams running the split back veer with a white quarterback.  Don't give me this non-sense about talent.

That's actually pretty funny.  BUT...for those that don't know.  Ronnie "Sunshine" Bass in real life went on to play 4 years at the University of South Carolina.  So your argument (while funny) has no relevance here. 

[oldschool2]

20 minutes ago, shepherddad said:

HARD WORK BEATS TALENT, WHEN TALENT DOESN'T WORK HARD!!!!!!

Not always. 

[CardinalBacker]

5 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

I watched every second of the Highland Park game. Are you inferring that HP had zero talent?..because they were riddled with college athletes as well.

And are you going to pretend that Coach Thompson is the SOLE reason that WOS is what they are?  Nothing to do with all of the D1 kids they graduate every year huh..  I'm not saying he isn't a great coach.  I'm not even saying he isn't the best coach in the area but I'd bet every penny I've ever made, have, or ever will make that if Cornell Thompson took the Head Football job at Livingston, Bridge City, or High Island he would never win a second-round playoff game nor  get another ring if he stayed 20 years.  I'm sorry to say but if you think he would then you're wrong.

Speaking of that...it should be about time for Barbers Hill to be winning a state championship, right?  It's Westerberg's 3rd year.  I figure they at least make it to round 3.  Based on the above logic he should be on his way to at least getting some district championships or something. 

You do realize that BC went into the third round in 2016, right?

Livingston has the tools to make the playoffs and win a game or two with the right coaching staff, I believe. 

[Reagan]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:17 AM, oldschool2 said:

I watched every second of the Highland Park game. Are you inferring that HP had zero talent?..because they were riddled with college athletes as well.

And are you going to pretend that Coach Thompson is the SOLE reason that WOS is what they are?  Nothing to do with all of the D1 kids they graduate every year huh..  I'm not saying he isn't a great coach.  I'm not even saying he isn't the best coach in the area but I'd bet every penny I've ever made, have, or ever will make that if Cornell Thompson took the Head Football job at Livingston, Bridge City, or High Island he would never win a second-round playoff game nor  get another ring if he stayed 20 years.  I'm sorry to say but if you think he would then you're wrong.

Speaking of that...it should be about time for Barbers Hill to be winning a state championship, right?  It's Westerberg's 3rd year.  I figure they at least make it to round 3.  Based on the above logic he should be on his way to at least getting some district championships or something. 

That's a pretty unfair analysis of Cornell's coaching ability.  

[90yshallow]

On 5/3/2018 at 2:06 PM, oldschool2 said:

That's actually pretty funny.  BUT...for those that don't know.  Ronnie "Sunshine" Bass in real life went on to play 4 years at the University of South Carolina.  So your argument (while funny) has no relevance here. 

I stand corrected.

[The Icon]

1 hour ago, 90yshallow said:

I stand corrected.

They’re still waiting on him to cut that hair lol

[oldschool2]

On 5/5/2018 at 9:55 AM, Reagan said:

That's a pretty unfair analysis of Cornell's coaching ability.  

I was making a point.  While it may not literally mean that he wouldn't win any 2nd round games (which might be true)... if he left WOS and went to one of those schools that are open his state title contender days would be long over.  That's not a shot at anyone's coaching ability...what's so hard to understand about a team needing HIGH-quality athletes/players to win it all?

Will Tom Westerberg win a state title soon at Barbers Hill?  Is Cornell Thompson a better coach than TW...because TW won 4 state titles in the highest classification in the state.  By me saying that TW will never win a state title at BH..is that a shot at his coaching ability?

[PlayActionPass]

14 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I was making a point.  While it may not literally mean that he wouldn't win any 2nd round games (which might be true)... if he left WOS and went to one of those schools that are open his state title contender days would be long over.  That's not a shot at anyone's coaching ability...what's so hard to understand about a team needing HIGH-quality athletes/players to win it all?

Some people just don't get it.

They don't understand that the combination of talent and coaching and circumstances have to line up to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. 

[oldschool2]

16 minutes ago, PlayActionPass said:

Some people just don't get it.

They don't understand that the combination of talent and coaching and circumstances have to line up to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. 

I know.  Which is why I have this conversation as often as I do...people think that all you have to do is hire the right coach and that equates to wins and deep playoff runs.  SMH...if that was the case the same coaches would win state titles every year.  Talent plays a big part also.  I always reference basketball because it's my wheelhouse and I know pro basketball is not the best example...but Phil Jackson won zero championships without Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant in their prime years.  Not a coincidence. 

[PlayActionPass]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

I know.  Which is why I have this conversation as often as I do...people think that all you have to do is hire the right coach and that equates to wins and deep playoff runs.  SMH...if that was the case the same coaches would win state titles every year.  Talent plays a big part also.  I always reference basketball because it's my wheelhouse and I know pro basketball is not the best example...but Phil Jackson won zero championships without Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant in their prime years.  Not a coincidence. 

Winning is a relative term.

Like in Livingston's case, they have been what 1-9 or 2-8 the last 4 years under Broussard?

If they bring in a Bubba Arledge and he goes 5-5 and finishes 4th in district and sneaks in the playoffs then has he won?

 

[oldschool2]

37 minutes ago, PlayActionPass said:

Winning is a relative term.

Like in Livingston's case, they have been what 1-9 or 2-8 the last 4 years under Broussard?

If they bring in a Bubba Arledge and he goes 5-5 and finishes 4th in district and sneaks in the playoffs then has he won?

 

All that will matter on his resume is that he "made" a non-playoff team into a playoff team.  Even though the circumstances are completely different that doesn't matter.  

So pleasant to have someone on here with a similar mindset on the issue.  

[dillonpanthers]

When do interview start? I'd think they would try to make a hire before school gets out. But maybe not. 

[PlayActionPass]

11 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

All that will matter on his resume is that he "made" a non-playoff team into a playoff team.  Even though the circumstances are completely different that doesn't matter.  

So pleasant to have someone on here with a similar mindset on the issue.  

Logic fails so many.

[PlayActionPass]

16 minutes ago, dillonpanthers said:

When do interview start? I'd think they would try to make a hire before school gets out. But maybe not. 

Knowing Livingston they will wait, and wait, and wait......

[dillonpanthers]

3 hours ago, PlayActionPass said:

Knowing Livingston they will wait, and wait, and wait......

 Hard for a new coach to come in to that situation so late

[PlayActionPass]

16 hours ago, dillonpanthers said:

 Hard for a new coach to come in to that situation so late

I'm pretty sure they will hire a guy that has been there before. He will know what he is getting into. They have already been put behind the 8 ball with the late resignation, Broussard stuck it to them. The first year will probably be a wash, the Senior class to be was supposed to be good, but many have quit. It will be a challenge to get hose kids back out, but tghat won't be the focus. The focus will be getting the numbers up from the 11th grade on down. Fielding 3 teams would be a start, but not sure that is possible year one either. Livingston will be long term project and one not for the faint of heart.