Livingston is Open

[idk]

Is there a list of applicants for this one?

[PlayActionPass]

22 minutes ago, idk said:

Is there a list of applicants for this one?

Only one name you need to know.

Edward "Bubba" Arledge

[Reagan]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:17 AM, oldschool2 said:

I watched every second of the Highland Park game. Are you inferring that HP had zero talent?..because they were riddled with college athletes as well.

And are you going to pretend that Coach Thompson is the SOLE reason that WOS is what they are?  Nothing to do with all of the D1 kids they graduate every year huh..  I'm not saying he isn't a great coach.  I'm not even saying he isn't the best coach in the area but I'd bet every penny I've ever made, have, or ever will make that if Cornell Thompson took the Head Football job at Livingston, Bridge City, or High Island he would never win a second-round playoff game nor  get another ring if he stayed 20 years.  I'm sorry to say but if you think he would then you're wrong.

Speaking of that...it should be about time for Barbers Hill to be winning a state championship, right?  It's Westerberg's 3rd year.  I figure they at least make it to round 3.  Based on the above logic he should be on his way to at least getting some district championships or something. 

Maybe he's the reason they are D1. 

What in Westerberg's past would lead you to think he couldn't win a State Championship at BH.  BH has won 2 Titles in the past so I don't see why they couldn't win another!

[The Icon]

4 hours ago, Reagan said:

Maybe he's the reason they are D1. 

What in Westerberg's past would lead you to think he couldn't win a State Championship at BH.  BH has won 2 Titles in the past so I don't see why they couldn't win another!

Kyler Murray plays for OU not BH

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, The Icon said:

Kyler Murray plays for OU not BH

Not sure what this has to do with the point I was making.  If it was an attempt at it, please explain. 

To make another point:   Those that defend bad coaching and coaches.will always blame the players/talent.

[The Icon]

6 hours ago, Reagan said:

Not sure what this has to do with the point I was making.  If it was an attempt at it, please explain. 

To make another point:   Those that defend bad coaching and coaches.will always blame the players/talent.

My point is Westerberg is not winning state at Barbers Hill with the caliber of athlete that currently walks those hallways. You can be well coached, have an unlimited budget, work really hard and still not have a legit shot.

There are no Kyler Murrays walking the halls at Barbers Hill. Therefore, I maintain that BH will not win a state championship.

[2wedge]

15 hours ago, Reagan said:

Maybe he's the reason they are D1. 

What in Westerberg's past would lead you to think he couldn't win a State Championship at BH.  BH has won 2 Titles in the past so I don't see why they couldn't win another!

Westerberg has gotten more out of BH than anyone in the state could have to this point. He will continue to get more and they will continue to be a solid team. But as the icon is trying to say, if one or two transcendent athletes do not transfer in or come up through the program, they will always be a 2nd or 3rd round exit regardless of how good Westerberg is.

[PlayActionPass]

21 minutes ago, 2wedge said:

Westerberg has gotten more out of BH than anyone in the state could have to this point. He will continue to get more and they will continue to be a solid team. But as the icon is trying to say, if one or two transcendent athletes do not transfer in or come up through the program, they will always be a 2nd or 3rd round exit regardless of how good Westerberg is.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

You have to have at least one "GO DADDY' to win State Championships, preferably 2 or 3.

 "GO DADDY" is East Texas for transcendent athlete.

[oldschool2]

17 hours ago, Reagan said:

Maybe he's the reason they are D1. 

What in Westerberg's past would lead you to think he couldn't win a State Championship at BH.  BH has won 2 Titles in the past so I don't see why they couldn't win another!

Coaches can show kids the proper path to take, put them in the proper situation, even inspire them to push themselves.  But if you think that coaches are the reason that a kid is or isn't D1 then you might want to tap the brakes.  That simply isn't true.. because if it was a coach would just go to any old small school, make them a few D1 players, and then start racking in rings.  See.. sounds dumb, doesn't it?

Westerberg has undoubtedly forgotten more football than I know.  However.. not he nor anyone else will win a state championship at Barber Hill in that classification with the caliber athletes that they have.  Probably ever.

Speaking of... what's the closest BH got to a football state title since they went up to 3A.. or 4A.. or 5A?  

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

Coaches can show kids the proper path to take, put them in the proper situation, even inspire them to push themselves.  But if you think that coaches are the reason that a kid is or isn't D1 then you might want to tap the brakes.  That simply isn't true.. because if it was a coach would just go to any old small school, make them a few D1 players, and then start racking in rings.  See.. sounds dumb, doesn't it?

Westerberg has undoubtedly forgotten more football than I know.  However.. not he nor anyone else will win a state championship at Barber Hill in that classification with the caliber athletes that they have.  Probably ever.

Speaking of... what's the closest BH got to a football state title since they went up to 3A.. or 4A.. or 5A?  

Once again, you’re being myopic about whether or not having a decent stable of good athletes is the only ingredient required for winning. 

In fact, I’ll use your fave Newton as my example. They tend to have more than their fair share of talent, but a lot of their success comes from coaching and culture. 

My proof? Nobody from Newton ever does anything at the next level without a Johnston-like coach whose scheme and program are head and shoulders above his contemporaries pushing them. That’s an indisputable fact. 

One could also argue that Newton didn’t start winning before they built public housing and sucked all of the talent out of Burkeville, but that’s a whole other story.

 

[oldschool2]

38 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Once again, you’re being myopic about whether or not having a decent stable of good athletes is the only ingredient required for winning. 

In fact, I’ll use your fave Newton as my example. They tend to have more than their fair share of talent, but a lot of their success comes from coaching and culture. 

My proof? Nobody from Newton ever does anything at the next level without a Johnston-like coach whose scheme and program are head and shoulders above his contemporaries pushing them. That’s an indisputable fact. 

One could also argue that Newton didn’t start winning before they built public housing and sucked all of the talent out of Burkeville, but that’s a whole other story.

 

I have never said having a decent stable of good athletes is the only ingredient required for winning.

players + coaching + level of competition = championships

I've said that numerous times. Not sure where you're getting the feeling that Newton is my "fave".. but ok.  Let's talk about them.  Yes, Johnston is definitely a great coach but I'm willing to bet that SEVERAL coaches in the state would've won the state championship with that group of kids in that classification.  

[PlayActionPass]

11 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I have never said having a decent stable of good athletes is the only ingredient required for winning.

players + coaching + level of competition = championships

I've said that numerous times. Not sure where you're getting the feeling that Newton is my "fave".. but ok.  Let's talk about them.  Yes, Johnston is definitely a great coach but I'm willing to bet that SEVERAL coaches in the state would've won the state championship with that group of kids in that classification.  

That might be an understatement.

I'm not taking anything away from WT, because he is a heck of a good coach. 

[oldschool2]

4 minutes ago, PlayActionPass said:

That might be an understatement.

I'm not taking anything away from WT, because he is a heck of a good coach. 

I'm not either because he is no doubt a heck of a good coach.  I'm just saying that there are a lot of really good coaches in the state that have never had a chance to have those kinds of horses in the stable.

Most of the best coaches in the state will never win it all.  (see formula for success above)

[PlayActionPass]

5 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I'm not either because he is no doubt a heck of a good coach.  I'm just saying that there are a lot of really good coaches in the state that have never had a chance to have those kinds of horses in the stable.

Most of the best coaches in the state will never win it all.  (see formula for success above)

You are spot on. many, many coaches with the aptitude and the attitude to coach a State Championship Team, just not blessed with the DUDES!!

[PlayActionPass]

What I hate to see is a School with those kind of Athletes, but they refuse to see the COACH is what is keeping them from winning championships.

Some COACHES have no business coaching the caliber of athletes they are blessed with.

[oldschool2]

36 minutes ago, PlayActionPass said:

What I hate to see is a School with those kind of Athletes, but they refuse to see the COACH is what is keeping them from winning championships.

Some COACHES have no business coaching the caliber of athletes they are blessed with.

I agree to a certain extent.  Far more times than not though it's the other way around but there are cases when teams don't reach potential.  

[AHUDDLESTON]

20 hours ago, Reagan said:

Maybe he's the reason they are D1. 

What in Westerberg's past would lead you to think he couldn't win a State Championship at BH.  BH has won 2 Titles in the past so I don't see why they couldn't win another!

71 AND 76.  That's even further back than HD's that everyone tries to make fun of? BH was class A then.  I still believe it is a great accomplishment. If it was mainly athletes, why did it take a different coach for Desoto to win it all. Takes a combination of both.

[2wedge]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

Once again, you’re being myopic about whether or not having a decent stable of good athletes is the only ingredient required for winning. 

In fact, I’ll use your fave Newton as my example. They tend to have more than their fair share of talent, but a lot of their success comes from coaching and culture. 

My proof? Nobody from Newton ever does anything at the next level without a Johnston-like coach whose scheme and program are head and shoulders above his contemporaries pushing them. That’s an indisputable fact. 

One could also argue that Newton didn’t start winning before they built public housing and sucked all of the talent out of Burkeville, but that’s a whole other story.

 

Is your insinuation that these athletes were met by poor coaching at the next level? Whether McNeese, SFA, or Alabama, you can bet those coaches are as good if not better than most coaches on the TXHSFB spectrum. The problem is, athletes at Newton can rely on their pure athleticism along with Johnston/Barbay's coaching aptitude to put them in positions to win. If there is any root to their lack of success at the next level, it's probably because they never had to compete in practice in high school. Some of those kids probably could have been good college athletes, but when they got to practice, and everyone was on their level athletically, they weren't willing to put in the work to earn their spot everyday.

That's something Johnston/Barbay ever had to deal with at Newton. They could go half speed in practice and outshine every other player on that field.  

[oldschool2]

36 minutes ago, AHUDDLESTON said:

71 AND 76.  That's even further back than HD's that everyone tries to make fun of? BH was class A then.  I still believe it is a great accomplishment. If it was mainly athletes, why did it take a different coach for Desoto to win it all. Takes a combination of both.

1

Um.. this isn't a very good example.  It didn't "take a different coach" for them to win it... I took Kyler Murray graduating.  Desoto didn't win it until then because Allen had a stranglehold on DFW.  Every year there are multiple teams good enough to win it out of that region... and if that's true what you say then why hasn't Todd Peterman won another one the year after they won it all in 16?

You know why.  Because circumstances change.. kids graduate.. etc..

[CardinalBacker]

22 minutes ago, 2wedge said:

Is your insinuation that these athletes were met by poor coaching at the next level? Whether McNeese, SFA, or Alabama, you can bet those coaches are as good if not better than most coaches on the TXHSFB spectrum. The problem is, athletes at Newton can rely on their pure athleticism along with Johnston/Barbay's coaching aptitude to put them in positions to win. If there is any root to their lack of success at the next level, it's probably because they never had to compete in practice in high school. Some of those kids probably could have been good college athletes, but when they got to practice, and everyone was on their level athletically, they weren't willing to put in the work to earn their spot everyday.

That's something Johnston/Barbay ever had to deal with at Newton. They could go half speed in practice and outshine every other player on that field.  

No, I’m asking why Newton athletes aren’t successful at the next level, if we (like many here) believe that their “superior athleticism” is what gives them success in high school, then why doesn’t it translate into success at the college level? There is a sound argument to be made that Newton’s coaching is on a higher level than Newton’s high school competitors. The young men from Newton move on to college and have coaching that is no longer head and and shoulders above the competition... hence the lack of success at the next level. I’m not saying this is the case, but it would explain why post-high school success has been so hard to find for Eagles. 

Some would claim that coaching has nothing to do with “D1 talent,” but that is naive at best. A young man without a good line coach or a good strength and conditioning program will never hit the next level, regardless of how quick his feet may naturally be. D1 talent is a combination of genetic gifts AND development of skills.... and that development is facilitated by good coaching. 

Also, “D1 Talent” is relative to the level of competition faced. Newton’s kids always look great playing against 3A schools I’ve never heard of, but I remain convinced that a lot of Newton’s “stars” wouldn’t look so talented if they ever played against Manvel and Lake Travis. That’s not a knock, but a realistic fact. A kid that plays for Newton can look fantastic, but would look totally unremarkable if instead he suited up for West Brook. I mean, a decent talent will look like a future nfl prospect when they face inferior competition. It’s unfortunate, but it might get expectations set a little too high some times  

[CardinalBacker]

15 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Um.. this isn't a very good example.  It didn't "take a different coach" for them to win it... I took Kyler Murray graduating.  Desoto didn't win it until then because Allen had a stranglehold on DFW.  Every year there are multiple teams good enough to win it out of that region... and if that's true what you say then why hasn't Todd Peterman won another one the year after they won it all in 16?

You know why.  Because circumstances change.. kids graduate.. etc..

So why has Murray been such a disappointment as a collegiate athlete? 

[oldschool2]

4 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

So why has Murray been such a disappointment as a collegiate athlete? 

Not sure if you follow but he plays backup to the Heisman Trophy winner

[LOUD and Proud]

5 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Also, “D1 Talent” is relative to the level of competition faced. Newton’s kids always look great playing against 3A schools I’ve never heard of, but I remain convinced that a lot of Newton’s “stars” wouldn’t look so talented if they ever played against Manvel and Lake Travis. That’s not a knock, but a realistic fact. A kid that plays for Newton can look fantastic, but would look totally unremarkable if instead he suited up for West Brook. I mean, a decent talent will look like a future nfl prospect when they face inferior competition. It’s unfortunate, but it might get expectations set a little too high some times  

This is the answer to the Question. They have an abundance of talent, compared to the competition they face on a weeklt basis.

Newton ran up against an Arp team two years ago that had just as much talent and were beaten soundly.

[2wedge]

34 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

No, I’m asking why Newton athletes aren’t successful at the next level, if we (like many here) believe that their “superior athleticism” is what gives them success in high school, then why doesn’t it translate into success at the college level? There is a sound argument to be made that Newton’s coaching is on a higher level than Newton’s high school competitors. The young men from Newton move on to college and have coaching that is no longer head and and shoulders above the competition... hence the lack of success at the next level. I’m not saying this is the case, but it would explain why post-high school success has been so hard to find for Eagles. 

Some would claim that coaching has nothing to do with “D1 talent,” but that is naive at best. A young man without a good line coach or a good strength and conditioning program will never hit the next level, regardless of how quick his feet may naturally be. D1 talent is a combination of genetic gifts AND development of skills.... and that development is facilitated by good coaching. 

Also, “D1 Talent” is relative to the level of competition faced. Newton’s kids always look great playing against 3A schools I’ve never heard of, but I remain convinced that a lot of Newton’s “stars” wouldn’t look so talented if they ever played against Manvel and Lake Travis. That’s not a knock, but a realistic fact. A kid that plays for Newton can look fantastic, but would look totally unremarkable if instead he suited up for West Brook. I mean, a decent talent will look like a future nfl prospect when they face inferior competition. It’s unfortunate, but it might get expectations set a little too high some times  

 

30 minutes ago, LOUD and Proud said:

This is the answer to the Question. They have an abundance of talent, compared to the competition they face on a weeklt basis.

Newton ran up against an Arp team two years ago that had just as much talent and were beaten soundly.

I'll address you both, this statement is asinine.

Do you think Nick Saban, and his ilk, are fooled by the level of competition around a kid? Those kids are getting D1 looks because they have the tools to be a D1 player. The competition rarely matters....the high level coaches know talent when they see it. What I said earlier about day in and day out competition is why those kids don't succeed.

And don't pass judgement too quickly on Kyler Murray. He still has a lot of football left to play.

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, LOUD and Proud said:

This is the answer to the Question. They have an abundance of talent, compared to the competition they face on a weeklt basis.

Newton ran up against an Arp team two years ago that had just as much talent and were beaten soundly.

In all fairness, that particular year or two, Newton wasn’t that good. I know we beat them in 15 and they crushed us in 16, but we really, REALLY laid an egg against them that week. They weren’t nearly as good as the score indicated. I wasn’t surprised at the early exit from the playoffs that year. 

The team from last year (2017) was the real deal, and I believe they should be just as stout this year. 

Thats called “giving the Devil his due,” boys....