Buna 70 Hardin 14/FINAL

[88Warrior]

13 minutes ago, PdaddyBball said:

Why?

Because I believe the regular season should mean something..Now the top four teams go into the playoffs.. Doesn't matter if they have a losing record or how many teams are in their district..Just one guy's opinion..

[PdaddyBball]

19 minutes ago, 88Warrior said:

Because I believe the regular season should mean something..Now the top four teams go into the playoffs.. Doesn't matter if they have a losing record or how many teams are in their district..Just one guy's opinion..

The regular season does mean something.  To the top teams in the district, its a fight for a higher seed for to go further in the playoffs.  For the lesser teams, it is a chance to do something as a building block for the future.  It may be lackluster to make the 4th place spot, but some 3rd and 4th place teams to win, because they are in a tough district.

Also, youre telling me that if Warren made the 4th place spot you wouldn't be excited, or it'd just be whatever because 4 teams go and it's not a big deal?

[oldschool2]

15 hours ago, ECFAN#1 said:

How about 2 teams double elimination. Would have to play 2 games a week to keep same schedule? Just a thought. UIL might not let 2 games a week but it's still a good talking point.

I personally think that went they sent 4 teams to the state playoffs it completely watered it down.  Even though sometimes 4 beats 1...  It doesn't happen often enough to justify the more I think about it.  I've said before that it does but I'm starting to think differently about that.  3 was close to watered down but much better even though the number 1 seeds had a bye.  I'd be willing to bet that coaches/teams would rather have a light week of practice and heal or prevent injuries than to likely play a game that's going to end up being an embarrassment.  Or maybe not..who knows.  Perhaps that's the best chance to get the backups in the game in a "playoff" situation. 

There has been a team go 0-10 (Houston Scarborough) and make the playoffs...think about that.  I know that overall records should have zero bearing on postseason but they didn't even win a district game.  The UIL should be ashamed of that.  

I don't know the answer but playing more than one game in a week is not a good idea.  I think you would see an increase in injuries...even high school kids need to rest their bodies after a game as physical as football.  Even during a regular week of practice the players usually don't go full contact the last couple of practices before a game.  I joke about it but I think it's safe to say that at least 4 will be (should be) the max.  Won't be able to keep adding because in a high school football season you can only play a certain number of games. 

[GoFundMe]

23 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I personally think that went they sent 4 teams to the state playoffs it completely watered it down.  Even though sometimes 4 beats 1...  It doesn't happen often enough to justify the more I think about it.  I've said before that it does but I'm starting to think differently about that.  3 was close to watered down but much better even though the number 1 seeds had a bye.  I'd be willing to bet that coaches/teams would rather have a light week of practice and heal or prevent injuries than to likely play a game that's going to end up being an embarrassment.  Or maybe not..who knows.  Perhaps that's the best chance to get the backups in the game in a "playoff" situation. 

There has been a team go 0-10 (Houston Scarborough) and make the playoffs...think about that.  I know that overall records should have zero bearing on postseason but they didn't even win a district game.  The UIL should be ashamed of that.  

I don't know the answer but playing more than one game in a week is not a good idea.  I think you would see an increase in injuries...even high school kids need to rest their bodies after a game as physical as football.  Even during a regular week of practice the players usually don't go full contact the last couple of practices before a game.  I joke about it but I think it's safe to say that at least 4 will be (should be) the max.  Won't be able to keep adding because in a high school football season you can only play a certain number of games. 

i have always admired louisiana's highschool playoff system

[ECFAN#1]

2 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

I personally think that went they sent 4 teams to the state playoffs it completely watered it down.  Even though sometimes 4 beats 1...  It doesn't happen often enough to justify the more I think about it.  I've said before that it does but I'm starting to think differently about that.  3 was close to watered down but much better even though the number 1 seeds had a bye.  I'd be willing to bet that coaches/teams would rather have a light week of practice and heal or prevent injuries than to likely play a game that's going to end up being an embarrassment.  Or maybe not..who knows.  Perhaps that's the best chance to get the backups in the game in a "playoff" situation. 

There has been a team go 0-10 (Houston Scarborough) and make the playoffs...think about that.  I know that overall records should have zero bearing on postseason but they didn't even win a district game.  The UIL should be ashamed of that.  

I don't know the answer but playing more than one game in a week is not a good idea.  I think you would see an increase in injuries...even high school kids need to rest their bodies after a game as physical as football.  Even during a regular week of practice the players usually don't go full contact the last couple of practices before a game.  I joke about it but I think it's safe to say that at least 4 will be (should be) the max.  Won't be able to keep adding because in a high school football season you can only play a certain number of games. 

I agree with you and don't think it would ever happen, but the top two teams sometimes meet in the 2nd-3rd round. The second best team in the state is out early. It would make it more interesting but agree increase in injuries would keep it from happening.

[88Warrior]

13 hours ago, PdaddyBball said:

The regular season does mean something.  To the top teams in the district, its a fight for a higher seed for to go further in the playoffs.  For the lesser teams, it is a chance to do something as a building block for the future.  It may be lackluster to make the 4th place spot, but some 3rd and 4th place teams to win, because they are in a tough district.

Also, youre telling me that if Warren made the 4th place spot you wouldn't be excited, or it'd just be whatever because 4 teams go and it's not a big deal?

I'd rather see it go back to two from each district...I agree having 4 teams go to the playoffs benefits schools like Warren, Hardin, Kountze, Vidor, Huntington, Tarkinton etc...etc...And if Warren got a 3rd or 4th spot I'd certainly be excited for  the kids...but in my opinion four from each district is too many... That was a money decision by the UIL no matter how they spin it to look otherwise..The system is what it is...I don't see them reducing the number now.

[88Warrior]

2 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

I personally think that went they sent 4 teams to the state playoffs it completely watered it down.  Even though sometimes 4 beats 1...  It doesn't happen often enough to justify the more I think about it.  I've said before that it does but I'm starting to think differently about that.  3 was close to watered down but much better even though the number 1 seeds had a bye.  I'd be willing to bet that coaches/teams would rather have a light week of practice and heal or prevent injuries than to likely play a game that's going to end up being an embarrassment.  Or maybe not..who knows.  Perhaps that's the best chance to get the backups in the game in a "playoff" situation. 

There has been a team go 0-10 (Houston Scarborough) and make the playoffs...think about that.  I know that overall records should have zero bearing on postseason but they didn't even win a district game.  The UIL should be ashamed of that.  

I don't know the answer but playing more than one game in a week is not a good idea.  I think you would see an increase in injuries...even high school kids need to rest their bodies after a game as physical as football.  Even during a regular week of practice the players usually don't go full contact the last couple of practices before a game.  I joke about it but I think it's safe to say that at least 4 will be (should be) the max.  Won't be able to keep adding because in a high school football season you can only play a certain number of games. 

I've often thought why not let coaches (for schools that did not make the playoffs) continue to practice their teams while there are playoff games going on...it would give them additional time to work on next year's squad..but then again I could see this being an issue with smaller schools where the basketball team depends on guys finishing up football to field a team...who knows what the answer is?...

[Tigers2010]

56 points in the difference between the 3 seed and the 4...wow

[LC_throwback]

...

[GoFundMe]

13 minutes ago, LC_throwback said:

can you imagine the record hardin has if the head coach doesn't come back these past 2 seasons? lmao we seen what the other coaches did the 6 or so seasons he wasn't there.  try to imagine what he could do with anahuac or kvilles athletes as well. 

you make a valid point. to his credit, apparently he wins a lot of games in places like Hardin where a lot of games are not won when he's not there. i'm just basing my post on past seasons.  when you look at the program, its been one of the worst football programs in southeast texas for many years. but the years he's in hardin, its quite the opposite. why is this the case?  is it luck of the draw or is the guy really good at what he does?  hardin is the smallest 3a division 1 school in the state of texas right ?  even more odds stacked against him and he somehow pulled that off as well.  kirbyville, anahuac, OF were all much more athletic and talented than hardin, but they all 3 lost to Hardin. why ?

[camsdad]

Compare Haynes’s schedule to Stark’s schedule and that will at least answer part of the question. 

[oldschool2]

6 minutes ago, camsdad said:

Compare Haynes’s schedule to Stark’s schedule and that will at least answer part of the question. 

It will answer more than part of the question.

[GoFundMe]

1 hour ago, camsdad said:

Compare Haynes’s schedule to Stark’s schedule and that will at least answer part of the question. 

did starke make the schedule or was it in place for him? 

[camsdad]

23 minutes ago, GoFundMe said:

did starke make the schedule or was it in place for him? 

He made it

[EAGLEFOREVER]

8 hours ago, GoFundMe said:

you make a valid point. to his credit, apparently he wins a lot of games in places like Hardin where a lot of games are not won when he's not there. i'm just basing my post on past seasons.  when you look at the program, its been one of the worst football programs in southeast texas for many years. but the years he's in hardin, its quite the opposite. why is this the case?  is it luck of the draw or is the guy really good at what he does?  hardin is the smallest 3a division 1 school in the state of texas right ?  even more odds stacked against him and he somehow pulled that off as well.  kirbyville, anahuac, OF were all much more athletic and talented than hardin, but they all 3 lost to Hardin. why ?

OF lost their qb, don't know if you could say that about Kville

[GoFundMe]

10 hours ago, EAGLEFOREVER said:

OF lost their qb, don't know if you could say that about Kville

it does not matter if they lost their QB or not. there's 168 more kids in the HS and probably 4 to 1 more athletes than hardin.   the only team in the district that has the same level of athletes and talent is warren.   kirbyville has 7-8 kids faster than any kid from hardin in my opinion and the same could be said for anahuac.  hardin did not win those games via athleticism.  

[oldschool2]

10 minutes ago, GoFundMe said:

it does not matter if they lost their QB or not. there's 168 more kids in the HS and probably 4 to 1 more athletes than hardin.   the only team in the district that has the same level of athletes and talent is warren.   kirbyville has 7-8 kids faster than any kid from hardin in my opinion and the same could be said for anahuac.  hardin did not win those games via athleticism.  

4

Would Hardin be sitting in the same situation if they had lost their RB?  Think about that for a second..if you're implying that one kid doesn't make that much difference. 

[XXPLAYAXX]

Hardin will be 7-3 to finish up their district run. Stark was an idiot and couldn’t coach to save his life I listened to him while he was is Hardin and all I could think was omg!!! Everyone knows Hardin does not have exceptional athletes they do have some coming up but not now, but all the kids played with this year was HEART AND FIGHT and good coaching that’s why they won this year. Hardin did loose a starting running back and a key defensive player he would have helped them a lot he was on track to being a 1000 yard rusher to. So with that being said everything can’t be an excuse they found ways to win.. This is the same team Stark and his Staff went 3-7&0-10. Haynes put teams on the schedule he knew he could beat for himself and for the kids to win a little I don’t think he thought he would be at the 7-3 mark. 3-7,0-10,4-6,7-3 making the playoffs this year is not to bad. My hats off to the Hornets good luck in the upcoming years. 

[oldschool2]

13 minutes ago, XXPLAYAXX said:

Hardin will be 7-3 to finish up their district run. Stark was an idiot and couldn’t coach to save his life I listened to him while he was is Hardin and all I could think was omg!!! Everyone knows Hardin does not have exceptional athletes they do have some coming up but not now, but all the kids played with this year was HEART AND FIGHT and good coaching that’s why they won this year. This is the same team Stark and his Staff went 3-7&0-10. Haynes put teams on the schedule he knew he could beat for himself and for the kids to win a little I don’t think he thought he would be at the 7-3 mark. 3-7,0-10,4-6,7-3 making the playoffs this year is not to bad. My hats off to the Hornets good luck in the upcoming years. 

 

You may want to check his coaching record prior to coming to Hardin.  Pretty sure he also didn't have his QB the year they went 0-10.  You can say what you want...but the kids you have and the schedule you have can/will make bad coaches look good or good coaches look bad.  It literally happens every year.  I've said it before and stand by it.. Haynes is a master schedule maker.

[camsdad]

46 minutes ago, XXPLAYAXX said:

Hardin will be 7-3 to finish up their district run. Stark was an idiot and couldn’t coach to save his life I listened to him while he was is Hardin and all I could think was omg!!! Everyone knows Hardin does not have exceptional athletes they do have some coming up but not now, but all the kids played with this year was HEART AND FIGHT and good coaching that’s why they won this year. Hardin did loose a starting running back and a key defensive player he would have helped them a lot he was on track to being a 1000 yard rusher to. So with that being said everything can’t be an excuse they found ways to win.. This is the same team Stark and his Staff went 3-7&0-10. Haynes put teams on the schedule he knew he could beat for himself and for the kids to win a little I don’t think he thought he would be at the 7-3 mark. 3-7,0-10,4-6,7-3 making the playoffs this year is not to bad. My hats off to the Hornets good luck in the upcoming years. 

Tell us how you really feel. I also am surprised at Hardin’s accomplishments this year but I also look at strength of the pre-district schedule. Coach Haynes did this for a reason and I believe he accomplished his mission.  He’s a good coach and he’s well aware of certain board members that he has to keep happy. 

[GoFundMe]

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

Would Hardin be sitting in the same situation if they had lost their RB?  Think about that for a second..if you're implying that one kid doesn't make that much difference. 

no where in that post was me saying 1 kid does not make a big difference. for hardin every kid makes a difference and especially a kid like #3 - without him they go 2-8 or worse. i was stating that OF, Kirbyville and Anahuac have a ton more athletes than Hardin and found ways to LOSE vs. Hardin which speaks to the coaching ability of Hardin's current AD and his staff. I dont know about Starks or years before this year, but as somebody stated earlier in this thread, Starks made his schedule and got mud stomped with whatever kids he had playing for him.  you said check his record, so i did. he won a few games and a couple district champs, but no playoff runs, which could mean he just had a good group come through for a number of years and i'm not saying the distsrict was down, but its possible that could be the case. you never know with small school ball. i come from evadale for over 10 years and in the past we've done a lot of damage locally, but not a lot regionally or in the playoffs. does that mean evadale is superior program or does it mean that every one else in the district was not so good ? looking at it, historically hardin seems to always be in a division they should not be in, so if you have any success, it can be direcly related to the coaching ability or the district being down or both. in this case, i believe it was both.  Starks did what every other coach from hardin has done over the years. he came to hardin and lost a lot of games and then left or got fired. some say got fired. some say he left high and dry. I dont know but the record speaks for itself, if you guys are telling me he made his non district games knowing he was going to get beat in district or not does not matter. schedule teams you can beat so you avoid trouble down the road with small town garbage.  ive resrached a lot on hardin before i enrolled my kids here and i looked at the football records. apparantly there's two other coaches in 73 years that had any glimpse of success outside of haynes. one guy in the 1973-1976 time frame and then a guy in the 2000-2003 era. other than that, its been slim pickens for those hornets. i'm not trying to be super critical of the town, but when i look at this years team, i dont see a lot of talent or athleticism.  we had more athletic kids in evadale at a school 2x smaller.  id be willing to bet the road will get much tougher going forward for the hornets. maybe they will defy the uil and go down a classifcation? 

[oldschool2]

15 minutes ago, GoFundMe said:

no where in that post was me saying 1 kid does not make a big difference. for hardin every kid makes a difference and especially a kid like #3 - without him they go 2-8 or worse. i was stating that OF, Kirbyville and Anahuac have a ton more athletes than Hardin and found ways to LOSE vs. Hardin which speaks to the coaching ability of Hardin's current AD and his staff. I dont know about Starks or years before this year, but as somebody stated earlier in this thread, Starks made his schedule and got mud stomped with whatever kids he had playing for him.  you said check his record, so i did. he won a few games and a couple district champs, but no playoff runs, which could mean he just had a good group come through for a number of years and i'm not saying the distsrict was down, but its possible that could be the case. you never know with small school ball. i come from evadale for over 10 years and in the past we've done a lot of damage locally, but not a lot regionally or in the playoffs. does that mean evadale is superior program or does it mean that every one else in the district was not so good ? looking at it, historically hardin seems to always be in a division they should not be in, so if you have any success, it can be direcly related to the coaching ability or the district being down or both. in this case, i believe it was both.  Starks did what every other coach from hardin has done over the years. he came to hardin and lost a lot of games and then left or got fired. some say got fired. some say he left high and dry. I dont know but the record speaks for itself, if you guys are telling me he made his non district games knowing he was going to get beat in district or not does not matter. schedule teams you can beat so you avoid trouble down the road with small town garbage.  ive resrached a lot on hardin before i enrolled my kids here and i looked at the football records. apparantly there's two other coaches in 73 years that had any glimpse of success outside of haynes. one guy in the 1973-1976 time frame and then a guy in the 2000-2003 era. other than that, its been slim pickens for those hornets. i'm not trying to be super critical of the town, but when i look at this years team, i dont see a lot of talent or athleticism.  we had more athletic kids in evadale at a school 2x smaller.  id be willing to bet the road will get much tougher going forward for the hornets. maybe they will defy the uil and go down a classifcation? 

Excuse me for thinking that "it does not matter if they lost their QB or not" was an implication of losing one kid didn't make a big difference.

You're right, though.  Hardin seems to historically be competing in a class that's one division higher than their talent level.  I don't know if this year would've been any better, however.  They would've just ended up in New Waverly's district.  Newton, Corrigan, Hemphill would probably all beat Hardin.  It would have been a more competitive district for them but also would take one preseason win off the schedule (New Waverly) and still possibly end up 4th.  Maybe 3rd...who knows.

You're also right about Evadale.  Always competitive locally (football) but that's about it.  Exception being when they have a really good group come through.  You should also know that Evadale also never plays anybody any good in the preseason.  Maybe that's the answer.  Just win games no matter who you play and keep your job as long as you want.  I've always said that building confidence in the preseason is more important than playing "difficult" games in order to prepare.

Next year will really tell the tale of Haynes's influence during district after they graduate their RB.  I also think that KV, OF, and Ana will likely be a little improved next year.  We'll see.

[Sportsfan1999]

Doesn't haynes have like over 160 wins?? 

[camsdad]

20 hours ago, Sportsfan1999 said:

Doesn't haynes have like over 160 wins?? 

I believe he has 160

 

 

[JB78]

There is a definite difference in being a program builder, and being a game      winner....Some folks don’t get the chance to build when so many others who have no clue what it takes change a school, and towns culture, especially with          unrealistic expectations from people who think their opinions matter.