Silsbee 79 Hardin-Jefferson 76/FINAL

[stevenash]

7 hours ago, STiger85 said:

It looked like the shooter did land on his feet. The defender just started on his way down and the shooter was already on his feet. From what you have typed, to my understanding, no foul. 

Let me know what rule allows a player to be knocked to the ground under any circumstance

[no-look]

This one is definitely a foul. Refs blew it(not the whistle). 

[BH85]

17 hours ago, stevenash said:

But the foul does affect the shot.  If the defender is running directly at you and jumps at an angle that will make him run into you,( thereby not permitting you to land on your feet), that defensive approach alters the shot attempt to some degree.  I have seen many a layup where the foul occurred after the shot was released and most of the time it is an "and one" situation.

so the approach alters the shot and the foul should be on the approach?

[BMTSoulja1]

17 hours ago, stevenash said:

But the foul does affect the shot.  If the defender is running directly at you and jumps at an angle that will make him run into you,( thereby not permitting you to land on your feet), that defensive approach alters the shot attempt to some degree.  I have seen many a layup where the foul occurred after the shot was released and most of the time it is an "and one" situation.

Good explanation, but I don't agree...  When you're shooting, your focus is on the basket and your form when the ball is in your hands.  Once the ball is released, unless that defender tipped that ball, the defender has no effect on that ball's trajectory or rotation.  If that shooter were looking at the defender, then it was not a shot,  it a heave.  

[TigerFan4]

McCain will be back next game, no worries. Refs killed us (Silsbee) poor calls too many touch fouls, missed calls a lot of one way calls. One of the worst HJ teams I saw yet. My opinion. Silsbee beat em by 30+ in silsbee HJ is overrated Lol u ask me 

 

[TigerFan4]

Silsbee will go for a 3 peat, don’t see too many teams beating us... we’re stacked w/ the football guys.. they are some help far as rotations. 

[JimThorpe]

14 hours ago, TrustTheProcess said:

Seriously?  It’s. a. basketball. game!  Keep it clean, but c’mon.  The kids have fun, it makes for a good atmosphere.  You want them to sit on their hands?  Maybe fans should not be allowed to cheer at all, certainly not when an opposing players miss a shot.  That would be demeaning and might really hurt someone’s self esteem.  High school athletes can handle a little good natured heckling without the fun police having to step in.  Good grief. 

Well at least I'm not a fool anymore.

I'm sure you aren't okay with calling a kid trash or even implying it.  And that's what I was referring to mainly.  The word heckling means different things to different people.  You can scream your lungs out for your team.  But there needs to be an assistant principle who is respected by the kids monitoring their behavior.  This is school property and visitors should be treated with respect.

[stevenash]

36 minutes ago, BMTSoulja1 said:

Good explanation, but I don't agree...  When you're shooting, your focus is on the basket and your form when the ball is in your hands.  Once the ball is released, unless that defender tipped that ball, the defender has no effect on that ball's trajectory or rotation.  If that shooter were looking at the defender, then it was not a shot,  it a heave.  

Then, by extension, you are telling me that if I pass to a teammate and after I release the pass, the defender knock me to the floor it is simply no harm no foul.  I will repeat that a great many layups are made prior to the foul and the shooter almost always goes to the line for the "and one".   As for  a heave, I disagree totally.  I will never be convinced that, as a 5'8" shooter, I can look at basket and the 6'4" defender  coming at me on the shot path simultaneously.  Additionally, if someone is "heaving" the ball, he can still be fouled.IF you havent seen the video, please look at it and then tell me there was no foul involved in that play.

[BMTSoulja1]

5 minutes ago, stevenash said:

Then, by extension, you are telling me that if I pass to a teammate and after I release the pass, the defender knock me to the floor it is simply no harm no foul.  I will repeat that a great many layups are made prior to the foul and the shooter almost always goes to the line for the "and one".   As for  a heave, I disagree totally.  I will never be convinced that, as a 5'8" shooter, I can look at basket and the 6'4" defender  coming at me on the shot path simultaenously.  Additionally, if someone is "heaving" the ball, he can still be fouled.

Well, we agree that by rule, contact after the shot is released is a foul.  Not shoving that aside.  We agree there.  Just saying that technically and my personal belief is that a foul after the shot is gone doesn't effect the shot. 

Now, the passing scenario that you mentioned.  A foul after the pass won't make that pass get to its intended target any more different had he not been fouled after the pass...but by rule, they'll call that foul.  

And yes, if a 5'8" shooter is shooting and a 6'4" defender is closing out on him, it's just a blocked shot.  Real shooters look at the basket and the form while in their shooting motion, not a defender...  Because if you've did your job creating space like a basketball move, step back, hesitation, running around a screen, ect, the defender won't be in position.  But you know all of this before you decide to shoot.  That's why I mentioned heaving.. because heaving, you aren't looking at the basket.  You just trying to make sure the ball leaves your hands and avoid the defender's blocked shot attempt...

On that video clip, that kid was wide open, that's why he shot it.  It's just the Silsbee defender did somewhat of a good job closing out, except the band angle...  My personal opinion is that shit was destined go miss and the Silsbee defender had no effect on the shot...

[BMTSoulja1]

14 minutes ago, stevenash said:

Then, by extension, you are telling me that if I pass to a teammate and after I release the pass, the defender knock me to the floor it is simply no harm no foul.  I will repeat that a great many layups are made prior to the foul and the shooter almost always goes to the line for the "and one".   As for  a heave, I disagree totally.  I will never be convinced that, as a 5'8" shooter, I can look at basket and the 6'4" defender  coming at me on the shot path simultaenously.  Additionally, if someone is "heaving" the ball, he can still be fouled.

...and that H-J shooter didn't look to. Be 5'8".  Lmbo

[stevenash]

24 minutes ago, BMTSoulja1 said:

...and that H-J shooter didn't look to. Be 5'8".  Lmbo

LMBO all you want - He lives 3 houses from me and has been shooting in my backyard for 5 years.  Additionally, he weights about 115 pounds and is a sophomore.  I know his dimensions quite well because he does his shooting with my freshman grandson who is of very similar stature.

[Hagar]

Show me a game when there wasn’t some bad calls or no-calls.  Never seen one myself.  That said, this particular scenario is different.  First, it’s a big game.  Maybe not the rivalry it was, but still two highly ranked State teams in the same District.  Second, anyone that knows anything about basketball knows that was a foul.  Not just a foul, a glaring foul.  Defender giving his all to block the shot inadvertently donkey stomping the shooter.  Shooter should have gotten 3 free throws.  And there’s no doubt in my mind that had this scenario been turned around, with Silsbee behind by 3, and a Silsbee kid got fouled with no call, the majority of Silsbee fans would be indignant/outraged.  I don’t have a dog in this hunt.  I’m just trying to, “Tell it like it is Dandy” (a phrase only you old folks will understand).

[BMTSoulja1]

23 minutes ago, stevenash said:

LMBO all you want - He lives 3 houses from me and has been shooting in my backyard for 5 years.  Additionally, he weights about 115 pounds and is a sophomore.  I know his dimensions quite well because he does his shooting with my freshman grandson who is of very similar stature.

I believe you, he just looked a little taller on the video clip, that's all.  

[BH85]

12 hours ago, stevenash said:

Sorry but the shot was a three point attempt.  Obviously earns three free throws.  The act of shooting includes allowing the shooter to land on his feet.

It looks like the shooter did land on his feet before contact.

[stevenash]

6 minutes ago, BH85 said:

It looks like the shooter did land on his feet before contact.

6 minutes ago, BH85 said:

It looks like the shooter did land on his feet before contact.

Then I pose the same question to you.  If you are defending me while I am dribbling and I pass the ball and you knock me to the floor after the pass left my hand, is there a foul or isnt there?  If we are splitting hairs about landing on his feet, I will suggest to you he was not allowed to land on his feet without harm.

[stevenash]

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[Who That]

Give it up and go watch the young man shoot some more 3's in your back yard dang. The game is over Silsbee won the game that's all that matters HJ are the losers bottom line. Next game is already 2 days away no time to be worrying about this shot. Got to keep moving. So suck it up butter cup.. Go Tigers

[Hagar]

12 minutes ago, stevenash said:

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Case closed.  NBA Officials got it right.

And he didn’t get hammered nearly as bad as HJ shooter.

[TxHoops]

11 hours ago, STiger85 said:

It looked like the shooter did land on his feet. The defender just started on his way down and the shooter was already on his feet. From what you have typed, to my understanding, no foul. 

 By the rules, most definitely a foul.  

[ST413]

Yes after seeing the video, it was a foul.  A bad no call even.  One of many missed or no calls.  Sure this one is glaring in The eyes of many for the time and situation in which it occured.  Would it have altered the outcome,  who knows but no more than any other missed calls could have.  One call on hj that resulted in a free throw made by the Tigers and the game was out of reach bythat shot. A couple missed calls on the tigers and hj could have made 4 fts so that shotmay have never even been taken.  No matter if his feet hitthe floor or not a foul occuring like that is a shoothing foul, would have been three pressure packed free throws.  Which wouldn't have matteredif we had made one of our 2 at the other end. Bottom line was it was a Tiger win in a much better game than just about anyone expected.  It was the type ofgame that our schedule was made to prepare us for and in the end that schedule  paid off.   

[stevenash]

5 minutes ago, ST413 said:

Yes after seeing the video, it was a foul.  A bad no call even.  One of many missed or no calls.  Sure this one is glaring in The eyes of many for the time and situation in which it occured.  Would it have altered the outcome,  who knows but no more than any other missed calls could have.  One call on hj that resulted in a free throw made by the Tigers and the game was out of reach bythat shot. A couple missed calls on the tigers and hj could have made 4 fts so that shotmay have never even been taken.  No matter if his feet hitthe floor or not a foul occuring like that is a shoothing foul, would have been three pressure packed free throws.  Which wouldn't have matteredif we had made one of our 2 at the other end. Bottom line was it was a Tiger win in a much better game than just about anyone expected.  It was the type ofgame that our schedule was made to prepare us for and in the end that schedule  paid off.   

10 minutes ago, Who That said:

Give it up and go watch the young man shoot some more 3's in your back yard dang. The game is over Silsbee won the game that's all that matters HJ are the losers bottom line. Next game is already 2 days away no time to be worrying about this shot. Got to keep moving. So suck it up butter cup.. Go Tigers

Totally agree with ST413.  All that I was talking about had nothing to do with the win or loss but rather a missed call at an important time that paid professionals are trained to recognize. I probably should not have kept this going this long but didnt want a couple of 'experts" to keep insisting an overt foul was not a foul at all.

[TxHoops]

12 minutes ago, ST413 said:

Yes after seeing the video, it was a foul.  A bad no call even.  One of many missed or no calls.  Sure this one is glaring in The eyes of many for the time and situation in which it occured.  Would it have altered the outcome,  who knows but no more than any other missed calls could have.  One call on hj that resulted in a free throw made by the Tigers and the game was out of reach bythat shot. A couple missed calls on the tigers and hj could have made 4 fts so that shotmay have never even been taken.  No matter if his feet hitthe floor or not a foul occuring like that is a shoothing foul, would have been three pressure packed free throws.  Which wouldn't have matteredif we had made one of our 2 at the other end. Bottom line was it was a Tiger win in a much better game than just about anyone expected.  It was the type ofgame that our schedule was made to prepare us for and in the end that schedule  paid off.   

I think the point is that refs don’t just suck during the middle, monotonous portions of the game.   Many are equally incompetent in the penultimate, game on the line situations.    

[Hagar]

11 minutes ago, TxHoops said:

I think the point is that refs don’t just suck during the middle, monotonous portions of the game.   Many are equally incompetent in the penultimate, game on the line situations.    

Penultimate?  You sent me to the dictionary on that one  

But it was appropriate lol.

[stevenash]

6 minutes ago, Hagar said:

Penultimate?  You sent me to the dictionary on that one  

But it was appropriate lol.

Hagar, perhaps you could refer to that as Barrister Speak?

[BH85]

1 hour ago, stevenash said:

Then I pose the same question to you.  If you are defending me while I am dribbling and I pass the ball and you knock me to the floor after the pass left my hand, is there a foul or isnt there?  If we are splitting hairs about landing on his feet, I will suggest to you he was not allowed to land on his feet without harm.

I agree with you that it is a foul.  I just think they waived off the one and one or 2 free throws since there is no time left on the clock and no way the free throws would of effected the outcome. (I could not hear buzzer on video, so I assume it had went off since people mentioned it was a buzzer beater).