From The Files Of "That It's All About The Coaching!"

[Reagan]

56 minutes ago, Tigers2010 said:

"What most people don't know is that Kyler was all set to go to Plano East, but Leatherneck refused to pay for his Toll Tag. Allen stepped in with the offer of a Toll Tag and a QT gas card, and the deal was sealed. "

Now that is what I call elite coaching

One more thing;  where/who is the source of this quote?

[Tigers2010]

11 minutes ago, Reagan said:

One more thing;  where/who is the source of this quote?

Just some guy on a Allen thread. Mere speculation, maybe, IDK. 

You are good at asking questions, but never answer them or responding to points. That's all.

[PlayActionPass]

17 minutes ago, Tigers2010 said:

RJ is good. Kyler Murray is a 1st round draft pick. There is a difference. Nobody said that's all it takes.

You continue implying that it all takes is a great coach. It doesn't. It takes superior coaching and significant talent. Both. Period. This is a dead horse conversation.

You are DEAD right.

That Allen Eagles team that won 3 SC's in a row may very well have 3 - 1st round draft picks and will have 4 players drafted for sure.

[CardinalBacker]

It's not as easy as saying "this school produces talent and that school doesn't" based purely on records.  Development has a lot to do with the level of success a school enjoys.  Newton, Jasper, Kirbyville, and Burkeville have very similar talent pools.... Heck, there are a lot of extended families that have kids in those different ISDs.  You can easily rank them by level(s) of sucess achieved, though. There's probably not a more naturally gifted program in the state than Memorial.... they just don't have the hardware to prove it.  There's a coaching deficit in my opinion, and a complete lack of development over there.  You'll not convince me that the kids in WOS are genetically superior to the ones in PA.  It isn't the facilities in WOS that makes them compete at the highest levels every year, either.  It comes down to having the coaching, as well as a program that will develop young ballplayers.  

Naturally talented athletes are definitely a necessary ingredient if you want to regularly compete for SCs... I'm not pretending that you could take any old school, drop in a championship coach, and start collecting rings.  You're going to need some top-notch athletes, but you're also gonna need a lot of middle-of-the-road athletes performing at their peak, too.... in the offseason, track season, powerlifting, 7-on-7, etc....

On the other hand, if you tried to implement WOS's program in a place like BC, they'd fire the coach before two-a-days were over. 

 

IMO:

IF you took a top level guy and brought him in to a place like BC

Got community support for the coach/program like they do in other places (Newton, WOS)

Had a 3-4 years to develop skilled and non-skilled players 

Got a lucky move-in or two

Then yes.... I think you could develop a consistent team that would play in December a lot of years.  But I don't think it happens without any of the above listed components. 

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, PlayActionPass said:

You are DEAD right.

That Allen Eagles team that won 3 SC's in a row may very well have 3 - 1st round draft picks and will have 4 players drafted for sure.

I appreciate your response.  But, it's awful funny, strange, that none of this happened before TW became the coach.  See my point? 

[oldman]

On 1/16/2019 at 0:21 PM, ECBucFan said:

TW proved he could coach a team loaded with 3, 4, and 5 star imports and with future Heisman QB Kyler Murry, who moved from Lewisville to Allen for athletic purposes.  

TW does not have the recruitment system at BH he had at Allen. In three years BH has not won a single playoff game and even finished 5th once. 

You think BH will win state in 2 more years?  

 

Someone doesn’t like TW

[Guest ECBucFan]

,,,

[Guest ECBucFan]

You are wrong. I Dont really care about TW either way. I guess he is an OK, but probably overpaid coach. ALLEN and Allen want-to-bes are the issue and will be the imputus for repetative discussion. TW will always be linked to Allen, so it just follows in the discussion.

[PlayActionPass]

18 hours ago, Reagan said:

I appreciate your response.  But, it's awful funny, strange, that none of this happened before TW became the coach.  See my point? 

You mean they weren't doing near a good of job recruiting in Allen before TW got there?

All recruiters are not created equally.

[PlayActionPass]

2 hours ago, ECBucFan said:

You are wrong. I Dont really care about TW either way. I guess he is an OK, but probably overpaid coach. ALLEN and Allen want-to-bes are the issue and will be the imputus for repetative discussion. TW will always be linked to Allen, so it just follows in the discussion.

No such thing as an overpaid coach. Every coach earns every dime he makes and if somebody is willing to pay the asking price then........

Now, by Allen or Allen want-to-be's are you referring to winners????

Because I would think everybody's goal is to be a winner.

[Stattrax]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 1:10 PM, CardinalBacker said:

It's not as easy as saying "this school produces talent and that school doesn't" based purely on records.  Development has a lot to do with the level of success a school enjoys.  Newton, Jasper, Kirbyville, and Burkeville have very similar talent pools.... Heck, there are a lot of extended families that have kids in those different ISDs.  You can easily rank them by level(s) of sucess achieved, though. There's probably not a more naturally gifted program in the state than Memorial.... they just don't have the hardware to prove it.  There's a coaching deficit in my opinion, and a complete lack of development over there.  You'll not convince me that the kids in WOS are genetically superior to the ones in PA.  It isn't the facilities in WOS that makes them compete at the highest levels every year, either.  It comes down to having the coaching, as well as a program that will develop young ballplayers.  

Naturally talented athletes are definitely a necessary ingredient if you want to regularly compete for SCs... I'm not pretending that you could take any old school, drop in a championship coach, and start collecting rings.  You're going to need some top-notch athletes, but you're also gonna need a lot of middle-of-the-road athletes performing at their peak, too.... in the offseason, track season, powerlifting, 7-on-7, etc....

On the other hand, if you tried to implement WOS's program in a place like BC, they'd fire the coach before two-a-days were over. 

 

IMO:

IF you took a top level guy and brought him in to a place like BC

Got community support for the coach/program like they do in other places (Newton, WOS)

Had a 3-4 years to develop skilled and non-skilled players 

Got a lucky move-in or two

Then yes.... I think you could develop a consistent team that would play in December a lot of years.  But I don't think it happens without any of the above listed components. 

That's why WOS wins. Little Johnny is gonna bust his butt or he wont play...

[TxHoops]

On 1/14/2019 at 0:20 PM, Reagan said:

Let's look at G.A Moore at Celina:  He was at Celina two different times.  During these two different times, he won 6 State Championships.  Did not ever win one before him.  Won 2 after him.  But none since 2007.  Did "move-ins" only happen when G.A. Moore got there? 

Maybe the best example you’ve given.  If you look at Celina AND Pilot Point during those periods, there is a direct correlation of the success of those two schools based upon at which G.A. was coaching.  

The answer, of course, is a bit of both.  Those who think it’s all players are naive and those who think it’s all coaching are misguided.  But like players, all coaches are not created equal.  I have a sneaking suspicion some WOS fans will come to realize this when Cornel retires.  

[Reagan]

40 minutes ago, TxHoops said:

Maybe the best example you’ve given.  If you look at Celina AND Pilot Point during those periods, there is a direct correlation of the success of those two schools based upon at which G.A. was coaching.  

The answer, of course, is a bit of both.  Those who think it’s all players are naive and those who think it’s all coaching are misguided.  But like players, all coaches are not created equal.  I have a sneaking suspicion some WOS fans will come to realize this when Cornel retires.  

True.  But, what if the people in charge picks another championship quality coach at WOS?  It's also all about who does the picking of these coaches.

[TxHoops]

4 minutes ago, Reagan said:

True.  But, what if the people in charge picks another championship quality coach at WOS?  It's also all about who does the picking of these coaches.

The odds of them getting another coach the quality of Cornel or Dan Ray are pretty long.  It’s not like the pay at WOS is attractive for outsiders.   I could be wrong but I highly doubt it.   And to be honest, there aren’t many coaches out there period that are on the level of CT.  

[WOSdrummer99]

4 minutes ago, Reagan said:

True.  But, what if the people in charge picks another championship quality coach at WOS?  It's also all about who does the picking of these coaches.

If there is not a good replacement already on staff, I know they will spend the money to bring in someone who has proven to be a winner. But personally I would love to see a former player or coach that knows the system carry the torch.

[bronco pride]

7 hours ago, TxHoops said:

Maybe the best example you’ve given.  If you look at Celina AND Pilot Point during those periods, there is a direct correlation of the success of those two schools based upon at which G.A. was coaching.  

The answer, of course, is a bit of both.  Those who think it’s all players are naive and those who think it’s all coaching are misguided.  But like players, all coaches are not created equal.  I have a sneaking suspicion some WOS fans will come to realize this when Cornel retires.  

Year end and year out one of the most disciplined teams I have seen play. Excellent fundamentals (tackling, blocking). Kids always play hard. Really great Coaching and program. Went and watched them play Wimberly 2 years ago in the semis. Hell every time Wimberly would run a screen those kids sniffed it out so quick I bet Wimberly had - yards on screens.

[griff]

On 1/17/2019 at 1:10 PM, CardinalBacker said:

It's not as easy as saying "this school produces talent and that school doesn't" based purely on records.  Development has a lot to do with the level of success a school enjoys.  Newton, Jasper, Kirbyville, and Burkeville have very similar talent pools.... Heck, there are a lot of extended families that have kids in those different ISDs.  You can easily rank them by level(s) of sucess achieved, though. There's probably not a more naturally gifted program in the state than Memorial.... they just don't have the hardware to prove it.  There's a coaching deficit in my opinion, and a complete lack of development over there.  You'll not convince me that the kids in WOS are genetically superior to the ones in PA.  It isn't the facilities in WOS that makes them compete at the highest levels every year, either.  It comes down to having the coaching, as well as a program that will develop young ballplayers.  

Naturally talented athletes are definitely a necessary ingredient if you want to regularly compete for SCs... I'm not pretending that you could take any old school, drop in a championship coach, and start collecting rings.  You're going to need some top-notch athletes, but you're also gonna need a lot of middle-of-the-road athletes performing at their peak, too.... in the offseason, track season, powerlifting, 7-on-7, etc....

On the other hand, if you tried to implement WOS's program in a place like BC, they'd fire the coach before two-a-days were over. 

 

IMO:

IF you took a top level guy and brought him in to a place like BC

Got community support for the coach/program like they do in other places (Newton, WOS)

Had a 3-4 years to develop skilled and non-skilled players 

Got a lucky move-in or two

Then yes.... I think you could develop a consistent team that would play in December a lot of years.  But I don't think it happens without any of the above listed components. 

You are correct, sir. A few years back, two new coaches joined the WO-S staff - one from a school near Austin and another from a local school (in fact, a district rival). After their first days of practice and workouts, both coaches made the statement that if their former schools ran practice like WO-S does, half the team would quit the first day. Furthermore, one of the coaches (from the district rival) said he and other coaches on his former staff used to talk among themselves wondering if WO-S was doing something improper which would explain why they have consistently good teams every season. After his first few days experiencing practices with WO-S, he concluded there was nothing improper, it's simply "the WO-S kids are just tougher kids than the ones at my former school (his words)." 

Coaching, athletic ability, coaching, community support, coaching, tradition, coaching, expectations, coaching, off season program, coaching, demanding practices, coaching, intense physical work outs, coaching, player development at the lower grades, coaching... 

[Guest ECBucFan]

On 1/18/2019 at 8:54 AM, PlayActionPass said:

Now, by Allen or Allen want-to-be's are you referring to winners????

No. I am referring to programs who build themselves up primarily by recruiting for athletic purposes. Take away Kyler Murry and the rest of the recruits from Allen and I don't think they win even one SC with purely home grown players. 

Its insane how many top, 3, 4 and 5 Star recruits Allen has has in the last 10 years. Just check out the Dallas Morning News 3-part expose'. I don't want this illegal concept to spread wholesale across TX. Its ATTEMPTING to happen here in SETX, currently. Hence, my reference to the "Allen want-to-bes".   

[scoopno1]

3 hours ago, ECBucFan said:

No. I am referring to programs who build themselves up primarily by recruiting for athletic purposes. Take away Kyler Murry and the rest of the recruits from Allen and I don't think they win even one SC with purely home grown players. 

Its insane how many top, 3, 4 and 5 Star recruits Allen has has in the last 10 years. Just check out the Dallas Morning News 3-part expose'. I don't want this illegal concept to spread wholesale across TX. Its ATTEMPTING to happen here in SETX, currently. Hence, my reference to the "Allen want-to-bes".   

Who in SETX is getting an unusually large number of move-ins?

[Bigdog]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:51 AM, Tigers2010 said:

You get what you pay for, like anything else. Want better quality (anything) pay more money. Would a guy like Surratt or TW ever think about coming to Nederland?

The answer is no. They do not pay well and there facilities are a absolute embarrassment. They like to pretend they take football seriously, but in the grand scheme of the State, they don't. Which is okay. Not every school has to go all out for football and build nice facilities and unload a BRINKS truck for a coach, just don't complain when you don't get the Grand Prize.

So explain WOS and Newton.   Where are the money and facilities there?  That's a weak argument.

[Tigers2010]

2 hours ago, bigdog said:

So explain WOS and Newton.   Where are the money and facilities there?  That's a weak argument.

On 1/17/2019 at 11:39 AM, Reagan said:

One more thing;  where/who is the source of this quote?

Small schools are different. Newton had some really good teams the last few years and that class or two had some studs. Don't act like that running to State every year. WOS fits your argument better. There is an exception to every rule, WOS is probably that exception. 

You must be from Nederland, and my comment struck a nerve. If you don't have the facilities and you don't pay worth a darn, you better be able to out athlete everybody (WOS & Newton). I'll stick by my weak argument.

[Bigdog]

19 minutes ago, Tigers2010 said:

Small schools are different. Newton had some really good teams the last few years and that class or two had some studs. Don't act like that running to State every year. WOS fits your argument better. There is an exception to every rule, WOS is probably that exception. 

You must be from Nederland, and my comment struck a nerve. If you don't have the facilities and you don't pay worth a darn, you better be able to out athlete everybody (WOS & Newton). I'll stick by my weak argument.

Well, the facilities are probably coming up for a bond this year, but I have never seen facilities win a game.   Nederland beats teams with better facilities on a regular basis(Central, Ozen, United, Crosby , Barbers Hill, you get the point.)   As far as pay, it is competitive and near the top for this area.   Money doesn't just come from the sky.

[Guest ECBucFan]

On 1/20/2019 at 9:17 PM, scoopno1 said:

Who in SETX is getting an unusually large number of move-ins?

On 1/18/2019 at 8:54 AM, PlayActionPass said:

 

I specifically put ATTEMPTING in all caps. Attempting does not equate to ""is", yet. 

Now, I thought it would be evident to even the most casual observer of HS football, but let me illustrate with a few quick examples. 

Easiest to see is FORT BEND MARSHALL. Four star Junior QB Malik Hornsby just "moved in" from woefully inept Houston Austin, along with others, and FBM made the state finals. Think they moved there for "acedemic reasons"? LOL

KATY: Why is Katy Tigers are so resented by all the other programs in that district? Could it be many of the best athletes in the whole KATY ISD move around to end up as Katy Tigers? 

LCM has complained for years some of their best end up at WOS.

How many piney woods athletes have moved to live with "Aunti" to make a run at State?   

Port Arthur constantly complains about losing kids to Ned and PN-G.

Poor Hamshire Fannet has lost some of their best players to Ned, PN-G and EC. 

BISD players have been inported to several surrounding schools immeadiatly boosting their programs. 

BH just hired from ALLEN, who is the poster child for illegle recruiting in TX. See the recent 3 part Dallas Morning News expose'.

Thats all I want to say here. This topic has been discussed enough. I know I am an exception, but I still have the audacity to think rules should be respected and complied with. The definition of integrity is "doing the right thing, even when no one is watching". It runs diametrically opposed to the "Its OK as long as we can get away with it" attitude today. How many "mail box" jokes have to be told? Heck, even Ken Purcell openly laughed about Aledos QB's parents mysteriously getting jobs in Aledo during the State Championship TV broadcasts. Thats just Sad.      

 

[Tigers2010]

1 hour ago, bigdog said:

Well, the facilities are probably coming up for a bond this year, but I have never seen facilities win a game.   Nederland beats teams with better facilities on a regular basis(Central, Ozen, United, Crosby , Barbers Hill, you get the point.)   As far as pay, it is competitive and near the top for this area.   Money doesn't just come from the sky.

I don't disagree aboit falling from the sky. Reagan gets on here constantly bashing coaches. Was against Barrow, and probably still is. My point was, the elite of the elite coaches aren't coming to Nederland with poor facilities and a pay cut

[oldman]

1 hour ago, ECBucFan said:

I specifically put ATTEMPTING in all caps. Attempting does not equate to ""is", yet. 

Now, I thought it would be evident to even the most casual observer of HS football, but let me illustrate with a few quick examples. 

Easiest to see is FORT BEND MARSHALL. Four star Junior QB Malik Hornsby just "moved in" from woefully inept Houston Austin, along with others, and FBM made the state finals. Think they moved there for "acedemic reasons"? LOL

KATY: Why is Katy Tigers are so resented by all the other programs in that district? Could it be many of the best athletes in the whole KATY ISD move around to end up as Katy Tigers? 

LCM has complained for years some of their best end up at WOS.

How many piney woods athletes have moved to live with "Aunti" to make a run at State?   

Port Arthur constantly complains about losing kids to Ned and PN-G.

Poor Hamshire Fannet has lost some of their best players to Ned, PN-G and EC. 

BISD players have been inported to several surrounding schools immeadiatly boosting their programs. 

BH just hired from ALLEN, who is the poster child for illegle recruiting in TX. See the recent 3 part Dallas Morning News expose'.

Thats all I want to say here. This topic has been discussed enough. I know I am an exception, but I still have the audacity to think rules should be respected and complied with. The definition of integrity is "doing the right thing, even when no one is watching". It runs diametrically opposed to the "Its OK as long as we can get away with it" attitude today. How many "mail box" jokes have to be told? Heck, even Ken Purcell openly laughed about Aledos QB's parents mysteriously getting jobs in Aledo during the State Championship TV broadcasts. Thats just Sad.      

 

As I said earlier in this post.... you have a hang up on TW .....