Lumberton 38 West Orange-Stark 35/FINAL

[RaiderGirl2010]

1 hour ago, ST413 said:

So there was only one shot made the entire OT.   I saw the video of the last shot with lumberton holding the ball for a long time,  did they hold it the whole OT period?

1 hour ago, Tigers94 said:

 

WOS got the ball to start OT but missed their shot and so Raiders held it and WOS wouldn't even try to go after them

[ST413]

42 minutes ago, RaiderGirl2010 said:

WOS got the ball to start OT but missed their shot and so Raiders held it and WOS wouldn't even try to go after them

It worked but glad I wasn’t watching it!

[TxHoops]

It’s a mix for me.  I do enjoy fast played games for the most part but maybe the hardest game to sit through for me this season was Yates vs Beaumont United early in the season.  It was a 2 pt game and 190 pts were scored.  But the whole thing was a hot mess that truly resembled an open gym, pick up game.  Up and down the floor, jacking it up at the first opportunity.  It wasn’t even apparent if a single play was run in 32 minutes.  

Conversely, I also appreciate a game where you have a battle of wills and opposite styles battling.   As Jim Thorpe pointed out, that Silsbee-Argyle game was a classic.   And so was the Silsbee-Carter game, which was played completely differently.  

But we live in a highlight reel, mix tape society now and the high-flying, run and gun basketball is what most fans want to see.  

[whsalum]

I'm not a fan of a high school shot clock at all . I do know WOS has one of the best players in the district, I'd want the basketball in his hands as many times as possible in OT. 

[Tigers94]

2 hours ago, yepyep said:

So if you were the coach of Lumberton, you would try to run and gun with Silsbee? You have to put your team in the best position to win the game. Trying to run with Silsbee isn’t it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I certainly think Lumberton should do whatever it takes to give them a chance to win.

I just don't personally like it myself.

 

[Tigers94]

40 minutes ago, whsalum said:

I'm not a fan of a high school shot clock at all . I do know WOS has one of the best players in the district, I'd want the basketball in his hands as many times as possible in OT. 

Yeah....its a shame he may not see more than one playoff game.

[ST413]

1 hour ago, TxHoops said:

It’s a mix for me.  I do enjoy fast played games for the most part but maybe the hardest game to sit through for me this season was Yates vs Beaumont United early in the season.  It was a 2 pt game and 190 pts were scored.  But the whole thing was a hot mess that truly resembled an open gym, pick up game.  Up and down the floor, jacking it up at the first opportunity.  It wasn’t even apparent if a single play was run in 32 minutes.  

Conversely, I also appreciate a game where you have a battle of wills and opposite styles battling.   As Jim Thorpe pointed out, that Silsbee-Argyle game was a classic.   And so was the Silsbee-Carter game, which was played completely differently.  

But we live in a highlight reel, mix tape society now and the high-flying, run and gun basketball is what most fans want to see.  

Running an offense like Argyle is one thing but standing out at mid court holding the ball is another as far as watching a game goes.  

[Coach.Shu]

High School basketball does not need a shot clock.  UIL sports are not about entertainment.  In HS programs - with very few exceptions you have what you have as far as athletes go. IN college and pros they recruit and trade or sign or whatever to make sure they have athletes to compete with everyone in their conference or league.   HS does not have that luxury- If you can't match up with a team that has superior athletes then you have to control tempo to give your kids a chance to win. This is actually much more difficult to do than to get them play fast.  Especially against a much quicker team.  A shot clock in my opinion would actually make these games much more boring.  No reason to ever come out and guard if they can only hold out there for 35 or 45 seconds.   So teams would hold it for 40 seconds then take a bad shot against a 2-3 zone every possession. Who wants to watch that?   And it' not just about the more athletic team trying to slow down the game - many times the more athletic team holds the ball to force the less athletic team to come out and guard them...    Case in point - Andrea Boutte -  he has perfected this strategy.  I was laughing at people posting on here that went to the west book, united game and were mad when West Brook held the ball.. What did you expect from a Boutte coached team.  Back in the day I loved watching PA Lincoln and Ozen get a lead and then spread the court and hold the ball making the other team get out of that zone... It was always fun to watch.  By saying we need a shot clock to eliminate this kind of strategy says you would rather see teams win by 40 plus points than see a game come down to a couple of possession...   HS does not need a shot clock..

[TxHoops]

2 hours ago, ST413 said:

Running an offense like Argyle is one thing but standing out at mid court holding the ball is another as far as watching a game goes.  

That’s as much or more on the defense as the team holding it.  You want the ball?  Get out of that zone and pressure the basketball.  I’ve only see the video of the last possession but it looked like WOS was sitting in a 2-3 and Lumberton waited until 20 seconds or so on the clock and went to a spread-swing and found a shooter open in the weak side corner with a tick or two left.  And he obviously knocked it down.  

[Coach.Shu]

14 minutes ago, TxHoops said:

That’s as much or more on the defense as the team holding it.  You want the ball?  Get out of that zone and pressure the basketball.  I’ve only see the video of the last possession but it looked like WOS was sitting in a 2-3 and Lumberton waited until 20 seconds or so on the clock and went to a spread-swing and found a shooter open in the weak side corner with a tick or two left.  And he obviously knocked it down.  

I ageee 100%. If a team is holding it - go out and guard then.  Can go man or a trapping 1/2 court zone.  

[ST413]

13 minutes ago, TxHoops said:

That’s as much or more on the defense as the team holding it.  You want the ball?  Get out of that zone and pressure the basketball.  I’ve only see the video of the last possession but it looked like WOS was sitting in a 2-3 and Lumberton waited until 20 seconds or so on the clock and went to a spread-swing and found a shooter open in the weak side corner with a tick or two left.  And he obviously knocked it down.  

True and a coach’s job is to get the win.  Just not fun for the spectators.  

[DXTR]

1 hour ago, Coach.Shu said:

High School basketball does not need a shot clock.  UIL sports are not about entertainment.  In HS programs - with very few exceptions you have what you have as far as athletes go. IN college and pros they recruit and trade or sign or whatever to make sure they have athletes to compete with everyone in their conference or league.   HS does not have that luxury- If you can't match up with a team that has superior athletes then you have to control tempo to give your kids a chance to win. This is actually much more difficult to do than to get them play fast.  Especially against a much quicker team.  A shot clock in my opinion would actually make these games much more boring.  No reason to ever come out and guard if they can only hold out there for 35 or 45 seconds.   So teams would hold it for 40 seconds then take a bad shot against a 2-3 zone every possession. Who wants to watch that?   And it' not just about the more athletic team trying to slow down the game - many times the more athletic team holds the ball to force the less athletic team to come out and guard them...    Case in point - Andrea Boutte -  he has perfected this strategy.  I was laughing at people posting on here that went to the west book, united game and were mad when West Brook held the ball.. What did you expect from a Boutte coached team.  Back in the day I loved watching PA Lincoln and Ozen get a lead and then spread the court and hold the ball making the other team get out of that zone... It was always fun to watch.  By saying we need a shot clock to eliminate this kind of strategy says you would rather see teams win by 40 plus points than see a game come down to a couple of possession...   HS does not need a shot clock..

Wait ...they don't do this in high school?

[Coach.Shu]

That’s why I said with very few exceptions before that. 

[AggiesAreWe]

What gets me about this shot clock discussion is the folks talking about how it will prepare the players for next level.

Exactly what players are we talking about? The on average less than 2% of all high school team rosters? So we should insert a shot clock just so we prepare that 2% and just say to hell with the other 98%?

That's not what high school sports is about.

[AggiesAreWe]

Besides, some high schools are having a hard time to find a consistent scoreboard/clock operator for every game. Now you want them to find a shot clock operator too? One that can handle that job consistently?

Good luck with that.

[DXTR]

11 minutes ago, Coach.Shu said:

That’s why I said with very few exceptions before that. 

I was just trying to be a little funny. Actually agree with your post. All good points. Silsbee used to go in the four corners with a lead all the time. We practiced it every practice. 

[Coach.Shu]

16 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

What gets me about this shot clock discussion is the folks talking about how it will prepare the players for next level.

Exactly what players are we talking about? The on average less than 2% of all high school team rosters? So we should insert a shot clock just so we prepare that 2% and just say to hell with the other 98%?

That's not what high school sports is about.

Good point. And the game is not what prepares them for the next level anyway.  It’s the skill set developed in practice and in the offseason. 

[Tigers94]

But just imagine being a shot clock manager for Silsbee.

Easiest job in the world!

[AggiesAreWe]

19 minutes ago, Tigers94 said:

But just imagine being a shot clock manager for Silsbee.

Easiest job in the world!

How would you say it's easy? As many shots that Silsbee takes and misses, the operator would have to really stay on his/her toes to reset after every miss or make.

[Sportsfan1999]

Lol this thread has gotten out of whack lol, give credit to ltown having a great game plan and great season this year!!

[Tigers94]

41 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

How would you say it's easy? As many shots that Silsbee takes and misses, the operator would have to really stay on his/her toes to reset after every miss or make.

It was a bad joke.

 

Being serious for a minute. From a competitive point of view in favor of no shot clock, I would simply ask someone to show me all the teams that have lost ballgames just because the other one held on to the ball. If you can't do that, then I think it's hard to argue for one. If you couldn't take the ball from a team stalling, then maybe you weren't better.

I personally hate seeing scores like this though.

 SA Wagner  - 33

Warren -  30.

That's high level playoff basketball at the 6A level from last year.

 

[TxHoops]

1 hour ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Besides, some high schools are having a hard time to find a consistent scoreboard/clock operator for every game. Now you want them to find a shot clock operator too? One that can handle that job consistently?

Good luck with that.

Now that is a great point.   Easily the hardest part of time keeping.  I’ve seen games where the refs are constantly having to stop it to get the shot clock right.  

[whsalum]

I agree with no shot clock 100% at the high school level. I guess it's just different strategies but if I e got one of the best offensive players in the district and the five best athletes on the floor I think I would have pressured the basketball and tried to get as many possessions as possible. 

[stevenash]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 7:08 PM, whsalum said:

I agree with no shot clock 100% at the high school level. I guess it's just different strategies but if I e got one of the best offensive players in the district and the five best athletes on the floor I think I would have pressured the basketball and tried to get as many possessions as possible. 

WHSalum- I have an acquaintance who asked that I pose the following question to you and you can respond as though the question came from me so that he can see the answer:  How did you arrive at the conclusion that WOS had the five best athletes on the floor since Lumberton beat them twice

[Sportsfan1999]

Lumberton beat them twice because they had a great game plan. WOS has 3 guys who are pretty athletic and prob a kid who is top 3 best players in the district.