Amazon scraps NY plans

[LumRaiderFan]

59 minutes ago, UT alum said:

It’s the freakin’ law of the land. I don’t agree with all their decisions, but I don’t turn around and say what they decide is unconstitutional. What Constitution you reading?

The 1973 decision I cited was 7-2, by the way.

Well, I do!  Welfare is unconstitutional, Obamacare is unconstitutional. Lots of things the Fed Gov control now is unconstitutional.

The Constitution gives the Fed Gov VERY limited powers, and what is not given to them falls to the states.  The Feds have been slowly chipping away at that for years while folks sit by and go, oh well, who am I to say what is or isn't Constitutional.

Sad that you don't feel you have the ability to question decisions that lawmakers make, but the Fed Gov appreciates you.

 

[LumRaiderFan]

55 minutes ago, UT alum said:

Thank you for the clarification. Still, no jobs there since ‘ 07, I think. 

I still think abatements are bad policy. Again, compete on the basis of who provides best infrastructure at the lowest cost. 

What do you think about the .5% economic development tax?

How would you expect a city like Detroit to ever bring business in without incentives?

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, UT alum said:

Thank you for the clarification. Still, no jobs there since ‘ 07, I think. 

I still think abatements are bad policy. Again, compete on the basis of who provides best infrastructure at the lowest cost. 

What do you think about the .5% economic development tax?

It’s a different mindset I guess. I’m a little more pro-business than you are in some ways. I don’t think that abatements are some divine thing, but I’d rather hold my nose and see more jobs and future tax revenue than stand on my principals and deteriorate while some neighboring community flourishes instead.  

I’m not sure that I’m familiar with that one. Is that the EDC tax? I’m largely opposed to those taxes and entities because they never seem to actually benefit anybody other than those who work for the EDC and those that seem to randomly receive funds from them. But that’s just me. 

[TxHoops]

6 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

How would you expect a city like Detroit to ever bring business in without incentives?

Let’s be honest:  it’s not easy even  WITH incentives.  

[TxHoops]

Orange County has a similar (albeit on a much smaller scale) with the proposed new Chevron Phillips construction project.  A proposed $5 billion project which would bring thousands of jobs to the area.  Of course they want tax abatements, and they will get them somewhere.  The fiscal benefits the citizens would receive without the taxes makes it a no brainer.  If you want growth, you have to be competitive. 

[LumRaiderFan]

31 minutes ago, TxHoops said:

Let’s be honest:  it’s not easy even  WITH incentives.  

Agree

[UT alum]

16 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

It’s a different mindset I guess. I’m a little more pro-business than you are in some ways. I don’t think that abatements are some divine thing, but I’d rather hold my nose and see more jobs and future tax revenue than stand on my principals and deteriorate while some neighboring community flourishes instead.  

I’m not sure that I’m familiar with that one. Is that the EDC tax? I’m largely opposed to those taxes and entities because they never seem to actually benefit anybody other than those who work for the EDC and those that seem to randomly receive funds from them. But that’s just me. 

We on the same page there, bro. For a small town like Silsbee it just creates a little slush fund for the politicos to randomly bestow cash gifts with no real plan to grow the local job market.

And you’re right about holding the nose. It’s the law, so you gotta play, but I don’t think it’s a good law.

[UT alum]

9 hours ago, TxHoops said:

Orange County has a similar (albeit on a much smaller scale) with the proposed new Chevron Phillips construction project.  A proposed $5 billion project which would bring thousands of jobs to the area.  Of course they want tax abatements, and they will get them somewhere.  The fiscal benefits the citizens would receive without the taxes makes it a no brainer.  If you want growth, you have to be competitive. 

I agree with that. It’s a tool and a community needs all the tools in its box to compete. I don’t agree in principle.

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, UT alum said:

We on the same page there, bro. For a small town like Silsbee it just creates a little slush fund for the politicos to randomly bestow cash gifts with no real plan to grow the local job market.

And you’re right about holding the nose. It’s the law, so you gotta play, but I don’t think it’s a good law.

A lot of times those projects create competitive advantages within a community.  Let’s say you own a tire shop... one of a few in town.  One of your competitors is awarded funds from the EDC to build a new shop for the betterment of the community. Now your tax dollars have gone to improve your competitors business.... and coincidentally your customers are heading over there, too, because his new (free to him) shop is so much nicer than yours. 

Same thing in Beaumont when they were promoting tax abatements and if I’m not mistaken, something similar to an abatement for occupancy taxes if someone was willing to build a hotel out near Ford Park. If I already owned a motel in town I’d be pissed. How nice is it to watch your former guests stay at a place that you were subsidizing?

[UT alum]

22 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

A lot of times those projects create competitive advantages within a community.  Let’s say you own a tire shop... one of a few in town.  One of your competitors is awarded funds from the EDC to build a new shop for the betterment of the community. Now your tax dollars have gone to improve your competitors business.... and coincidentally your customers are heading over there, too, because his new (free to him) shop is so much nicer than yours. 

Same thing in Beaumont when they were promoting tax abatements and if I’m not mistaken, something similar to an abatement for occupancy taxes if someone was willing to build a hotel out near Ford Park. If I already owned a motel in town I’d be pissed. How nice is it to watch your former guests stay at a place that you were subsidizing?

To me they only make sense when used for projects that bring in dollars from outside the region. That was the rationale back in the day when they were created. Take Dragon Industries in Silsbee, for instance. I doubt that they have many customers in the golden triangle. They have customers all over the country. That means the money they earn is bringing dollars from other places, not just recycling local dollars like retail and service do. That how local economies expand. Projects like that deserve EDC help. The tax is approved by local voters,too, not like abatement policies.