Nederland Bond PASSES!!!!

[Bigdog]

9 hours ago, 88Warrior said:

I don’t live school district so I won’t comment about the specifics of the NISD but will address your statement of ”paying for something you’re not getting anything out of” or something along those lines. You don’t think your property value is a reflection of the quality of school district your home is in? So if this bond was passed and property values went up you would be getting something out of it while others bared the burden. The school district could not put in a “rider” to exclude those with no children even if it wanted to..doesn’t legally work that way..I don’t know you but just reading your previous posts I know you’re against the bond and I get that..I really do..It’s a huge sum of money and debt the taxpayers will carry for many many years..If it’s that big of a deal to you need to organize your like minded friends and come at the supporters of the bond with solid facts and not emotions...I don’t have a dog in the hunt..it’s up to the will of the NISD taxpayers to decide..Best of luck to all.

Yeah he must have gone to the AOC school of economics.

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, bigdog said:

Yeah he must have gone to the AOC school of economics.

On the contrary.  AOC advocates the opposite of what I am saying. She thinks "more" taxes will solve everything.  She would definitely be in love with those advocating a 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase.  What's more anti-socialist than you want something, you pay for.  You want your child to get an education then you pay for it.  Why should I pay for someone else's child's education.  Pretty pro-American philosophy to me.  Well, maybe at one time it was.  Any other situation that would have you pay for something that you don't want or has nothing to do with you, you, along with others, would be screaming at the top of your lungs.  I know, it's like everything else:  It's always been this way, so we don't really think about it.  I just threw it on the table for thoughtful discussion.  I'm sure there are a lot more of those here that have pro and con thoughts.  But it does require some thought.  Something different, though, with no thought, is like the cross to Dracula.  HA!  I get that!

[Rez]

Does anyone have any idea what the increase in tax will be per household?

How old are the schools? Someone told me that the middle schools in Nederland date from the 1970s. 

 

 

[navydawg31]

4 hours ago, Rez Ipsa said:

Does anyone have any idea what the increase in tax will be per household?

How old are the schools? Someone told me that the middle schools in Nederland date from the 1970s. 

 

 

Central middle school is the old high school... that’s why the football stadium is located there but it was built well and to last.. The high school was built in the 70s it’s the “newest” school but built open concept without walls. Langham elementary is the oldest I can’t recall 100% sure but I believe it was in the 30s it was built. Maybe someone can correct me better. 

[navydawg31]

17 hours ago, mat said:

Most districts that try to pass a bond offer campus tours to the public .I would suggest those for, against or on the fence take advantage of that opportunity. People give opinion after opinion about what is best and have never stepped inside the schools.

If you're again athletic improvements you can vote against it but still help education.

NISD did offer tours of every campus and athletic facility within the district. Very well ran and organized. A special committee was put together to govern over this. Great turnouts each time, they spread the word out about each campus and meeting. 

If you didn’t take care part of it shame on you, that was first insight of how terrible NISD schools are from within.

[The Icon]

34 minutes ago, navydawg31 said:

Central middle school is the old high school... that’s why the football stadium is located there but it was built well and to last.. The high school was built in the 70s it’s the “newest” school but built open concept without walls. Langham elementary is the oldest I can’t recall 100% sure but I believe it was in the 30s it was built. Maybe someone can correct me better. 

Telling

Some may say the kids are doing fine, why change? 

Why not ask what can make them even better?

[CardinalBacker]

2 hours ago, The Icon said:

Telling

Some may say the kids are doing fine, why change? 

Why not ask what can make them even better?

Not really wanting to beat a dead horse, but my truck is paid for.  Has 200k thousand miles on it now.  I should probably be on the lookout for a replacement.  For some people, that means picking up a used rig with some miles.  For others it means going to the note lot and getting a beater.  Some others might even head down and pick up a new truck.  

Just because I say "Whoa, I really don't need that new 2019 King Ranch F350 Crew Cab 4x4 with the dealer installed lift kit, wheels/tires, custom paint and 3 TVs" doesn't mean I'm against replacing my old truck.

I just think $90k is a lot of money for a new truck.  Or $156 million for a bond package in a town of 17,000 is a little crazy.

 

[Reagan]

Kinda of like what's going on with this NISD bond issue!  No matter what angle you look at it -- it's still going to cost 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLARS with a minimal, if any, affect on child's education. It's a wish list, a want -- not a need.  This is why it must be defeated.  BTW, if anyone thinks that this 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase will have only a minimal affect on your household budget, then I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for you.  Folks -- think!!

[WOSgrad]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

Kinda of like what's going on with this NISD bond issue!  No matter what angle you look at it -- it's still going to cost 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLARS with a minimal, if any, affect on child's education. It's a wish list, a want -- not a need.  This is why it must be defeated.  BTW, if anyone thinks that this 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase will have only a minimal affect on your household budget, then I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for you.  Folks -- think!!

Exactly which part of the proposed bond do you consider a wish list?

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

Exactly which part of the proposed bond do you consider a wish list?

Pretty much all the stuff you had put up.  And that's only part of it.  I would say less than 1%, if that much, has anything to do with children's education.  And the 4,500,000 MILLION DOLLAR side bond for "stadium" improvements is a total wish list.  Especially when they only play varsity football games 5-6 days a year in the stadium.  This 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase will not increase the SAT scores much, if any.  And this $.5 MILLION DOLLAR side tax increase will not make the football team play any better.  Just look to our PNG neighbors!  

[CardinalBacker]

3 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

Exactly which part of the proposed bond do you consider a wish list?

Here's the rub... Beaumont ISD had a monster bond at $389 million.  This one is for ONLY $156 milly.  

 

When you look at it in relative terms, There are are 117,000 people in Beaumont.  If you take the 389 million price and divide it by the number of citizens of Beaumont (not even including the people outside of the city limits) you end up with a price per citizen of $3,324 per person.  

Nederland on the other hand has 17,000 residents AND is asking for 156 million.  It's more like $9,176 per person.   

In plain English, if Beaumont's bond issue (already considered massive) compared to Nederland's on a cost per citizen basis, it would have been more like 1.2 billion dollars. When you consider how how much bigger Beaumont's tax base is (refineries, commerical, industrial, retail, maritime, etc...) you can see how bad the property owners in a bedroom community like Nederland are about to get smacked.  

Call it for what it is... there are some Bulldog faithful who are tired of getting shown up by the facilities on the other side of town, and they're willing to spend however many of their neighbors dollars to fix the situation.  

The one thing nobody is mentioning is that Nederland isn't growing... It's a completely different ballgame when your a Magnolia or Tomball and your population is exploding. Big Ned isn't getting any larger. 

 

 

 

[WOSgrad]

43 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Pretty much all the stuff you had put up.  And that's only part of it.  I would say less than 1%, if that much, has anything to do with children's education.  And the 4,500,000 MILLION DOLLAR side bond for "stadium" improvements is a total wish list.  Especially when they only play varsity football games 5-6 days a year in the stadium.  This 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase will not increase the SAT scores much, if any.  And this $.5 MILLION DOLLAR side tax increase will not make the football team play any better.  Just look to our PNG neighbors!  

One thing I new to correct you on, the correct figure is either $156 million or $156,000,000.  It isn't both.  I don't like to play grammar police, but in cases like this, I kinda feel like the mistake (if it is indeed a mistake) is kind of key here.  Second, it isn't a "tax increase" but rather a bond proposal. 

And we can forget about the stadium bond proposal.  As soon as that was separated from the school proposal, I considered that DOA. And I agree that the type of surface does not equate to extra wins.

As far as the school, I don't know that you can consider all of the stuff wish list items.  Estimates were that even a renovation of Nederland High would run close to about $38 million.  So is the entire thing needed, probably not.  But I think branding the thing as a wish list of the "cool kids" as your friend Klein put it is a bit of an overreach. 

[WOSgrad]

20 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Here's the rub... Beaumont ISD had a monster bond at $389 million.  This one is for ONLY $156 milly.  

 

When you look at it in relative terms, There are are 117,000 people in Beaumont.  If you take the 389 million price and divide it by the number of citizens of Beaumont (not even including the people outside of the city limits) you end up with a price per citizen of $3,324 per person.  

Nederland on the other hand has 17,000 residents AND is asking for 156 million.  It's more like $9,176 per person.   

In plain English, if Beaumont's bond issue (already considered massive) compared to Nederland's on a cost per citizen basis, it would have been more like 1.2 billion dollars. When you consider how how much bigger Beaumont's tax base is (refineries, commerical, industrial, retail, maritime, etc...) you can see how bad the property owners in a bedroom community like Nederland are about to get smacked.  

Call it for what it is... there are some Bulldog faithful who are tired of getting shown up by the facilities on the other side of town, and they're willing to spend however many of their neighbors dollars to fix the situation.  

The one thing nobody is mentioning is that Nederland isn't growing... It's a completely different ballgame when your a Magnolia or Tomball and your population is exploding. Big Ned isn't getting any larger. 

 

 

 

Completely understood and your facts I can't argue with.  It is just this, if these items are necessary, the engineers, architects, and construction companies are not going to give Nederland ISD a "small tax base" discount.

[fox]

18 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

Completely understood and your facts I can't argue with.  It is just this, if these items are necessary, the engineers, architects, and construction companies are not going to give Nederland ISD a "small tax base" discount.

how many years does a bond tax increase last?

[WOSgrad]

12 minutes ago, fox said:

how many years does a bond tax increase last?

I didn't see any schedule for paying off of the bonds.  I did, however see that Nederland ISD still had in their 2018-19 budget a debt service of $2.283 million dollars and the last bond was passed in Nederland ISD in 2012.

[navydawg31]

2 hours ago, Reagan said:

Pretty much all the stuff you had put up.  And that's only part of it.  I would say less than 1%, if that much, has anything to do with children's education.  And the 4,500,000 MILLION DOLLAR side bond for "stadium" improvements is a total wish list.  Especially when they only play varsity football games 5-6 days a year in the stadium.  This 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase will not increase the SAT scores much, if any.  And this $.5 MILLION DOLLAR side tax increase will not make the football team play any better.  Just look to our PNG neighbors!  

That 4.5 side bond you are talking about not only does that field service varsity football games but as well as the band and drill teams, as well as freshman and JV football. Oh and middle school football, let’s not forget boys and girls soccer. Oh what about the great track meet that the high school puts on every year. Can’t foeget about the middle school track team. Stadium is outdated and old bathrooms are a joke, time to update the stadium and lock it up at night time.

[Reagan]

5 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

One thing I new to correct you on, the correct figure is either $156 million or $156,000,000.  It isn't both.  I don't like to play grammar police, but in cases like this, I kinda feel like the mistake (if it is indeed a mistake) is kind of key here.  Second, it isn't a "tax increase" but rather a bond proposal. 

And we can forget about the stadium bond proposal.  As soon as that was separated from the school proposal, I considered that DOA. And I agree that the type of surface does not equate to extra wins.

As far as the school, I don't know that you can consider all of the stuff wish list items.  Estimates were that even a renovation of Nederland High would run close to about $38 million.  So is the entire thing needed, probably not.  But I think branding the thing as a wish list of the "cool kids" as your friend Klein put it is a bit of an overreach. 

Since we are complaining about semantics I guess I am on the right track.  But, no matter how you say it it's still an ugly figure. And on the bold part, you have the right to your opinion and I have the right to mine. And we shall see which side prevails on election day!  So, like I told someone else here -- I see I'm not the only one the visits Klein's site! 

[Reagan]

5 hours ago, navydawg31 said:

That 4.5 side bond you are talking about not only does that field service varsity football games but as well as the band and drill teams, as well as freshman and JV football. Oh and middle school football, let’s not forget boys and girls soccer. Oh what about the great track meet that the high school puts on every year. Can’t foeget about the middle school track team. Stadium is outdated and old bathrooms are a joke, time to update the stadium and lock it up at night time.

The answer to your is quite simple:  One would not build a huge stadium for any of these other sports!

[Reagan]

Let me propose some more thought:  While I know a lot of people are giving some serious thought to what I said about not paying school taxes if one does not have a dog in the hunt, so to speak, I have another idea which should be a lot easier.  Those over 65 get a cut on their school taxes and it never goes up.  I think it comes out to be around 25-30% cut.  It really should be a 50% cut.  But any cut is good.  But -- once one turns 65 they should not have to pay school taxes at all.  Seems a simple and logical concept to me.  Why continue to punish the elderly retirees until they die?  Now, let's not misunderstand me: On both subjects concerning not paying school taxes if one has no children and over 65, this must be done state wide.  This would force school districts to use the money they have more toward what's actually important -- EDUCATION...  And, no, for example, building fine fancy stadiums across the state at the cost of millions and millions of dollars is not really that important!

[WOSgrad]

2 hours ago, Reagan said:

  So, like I told someone else here -- I see I'm not the only one the visits Klein's site! 

No, before I wade in, I like to read all I can about an issue.......even if it is an slandering idiot like Phillip Klein.

[mat]

The entire community benefits from our schools whether you have children in school or not. School/education quality affects home values. Schools affect employment which affects economics that all benefit from, educated graduates contribute to the work force, etc. There's a lot more trickle down benefits. If you were to eliminate the school system from your community, where would the the community be or for that matter, your home value.

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Correction.... the "freeze" for taxes on people over 65 only applies to their home's value, not the tax rate.  If the tax rates go up (and they will if this bond passes), then elderly people WILL see a property tax increase, too.

 

 

Interesting!  Thanks!  More ammunition.  What a shame though.  If this is true, I wonder if the board has made this clear to the elderly?

[A BUC 77]

It takes a village to raise a child.  This is a high price to pay, but I think it worth it.  We must continue to upgrade the school facilities to keep up with an ever changing world.  Like someone said earlier,  it's not going to get any cheaper. 

The football stadium upgrades will in time save money on upkeep.  Bathrooms are a disgrace.  Nederland is one of the last districts in 5A (that regularly go to the playoffs) that play on grass, mud etc.

[mat]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Correction.... the "freeze" for taxes on people over 65 only applies to their home's value, not the tax rate.  If the tax rates go up (and they will if this bond passes), then elderly people WILL see a property tax increase, too.

 

 

This statement is from NISD website

If the bond issue passes, will the tax rate for our senior citizens be increased? No. Taxpayers who are age 65 and older and have filed the appropriate tax exemption will not see an increase in the school taxes they pay on their home. The exemption “freezes” the amount of school taxes they pay at the time the exemption is filed.

[Reagan]

26 minutes ago, mat said:

This statement is from NISD website

If the bond issue passes, will the tax rate for our senior citizens be increased? No. Taxpayers who are age 65 and older and have filed the appropriate tax exemption will not see an increase in the school taxes they pay on their home. The exemption “freezes” the amount of school taxes they pay at the time the exemption is filed.

Good!  But still I ask why do they have to pay at all?  I'll be contacting Texas' Governor and Lt Governor and see if there is any interest getting this debate started.  We should start with this one first before we tackle the other one concerning why people should pay school taxes if they do not have children in the system.