Nederland Bond PASSES!!!!

[Bigdog]

39 minutes ago, NDNation said:

I usually don't start posting again until football season, but......The Nederland bond has brought me back early.

Will Nederland survive this???? It's gotten vicious on Facebook. 

Some people don’t know how to have a civil conversation and advocate for their side without being nasty.  That didn’t start with this bond.

[navydawg31]

1 hour ago, NDNation said:

I usually don't start posting again until football season, but......The Nederland bond has brought me back early.

Will Nederland survive this???? It's gotten vicious on Facebook. 

If not passed I’m sure some of your Nederland friends with children will be making a nice move over the tracks  

[outanup]

14 minutes ago, navydawg31 said:

If not passed I’m sure some of your Nederland friends with children will be making a nice move over the tracks  

14 minutes ago, navydawg31 said:

If not passed I’m sure some of your Nederland friends with children will be making a nice move over the tracks  

I'm liking the chances this time.......Big movement and lots of community involvement.

 

[NDNation]

1 hour ago, navydawg31 said:

If not passed I’m sure some of your Nederland friends with children will be making a nice move over the tracks  

We get what we want over here..lol

[Reagan]

OK, if the bond passes, the principal amount is $156,000,000.  But, there is interest on this.  So, after the bond is paid off, including principle and interest -- what will be the actual total cost of the bond to the taxpayer?

[PlayActionPass]

On 3/30/2019 at 11:04 PM, Reagan said:

OK, if the bond passes, the principal amount is $156,000,000.  But, there is interest on this.  So, after the bond is paid off, including principle and interest -- what will be the actual total cost of the bond to the taxpayer?

The cost to the taxpayer will still be less than $30 a month based on property value of $100,000.

So basically less than the cost of 5 trips to Starbucks or one dinner at Chili's. Are you really that cheap?

[navydawg31]

1 hour ago, PlayActionPass said:

The cost to the taxpayer will still be less than $30 a month based on property value of $100,000.

So basically less than the cost of 5 trips to Starbucks or one dinner at Chili's. Are you really that cheap?

Cheap skates. The stadium portion of the bond was what 33 cents a month? 

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, PlayActionPass said:

The cost to the taxpayer will still be less than $30 a month based on property value of $100,000.

So basically less than the cost of 5 trips to Starbucks or one dinner at Chili's. Are you really that cheap?

Although true, there will be a greater effect on the family budget than that.  I'll explain closer to May 4th.  So -- do you have an answer for the question I actually asked?

[PlayActionPass]

5 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Although true, there will be a greater effect on the family budget than that.  I'll explain closer to May 4th.  So -- do you have an answer for the question I actually asked?

Yes, I have an answer.

But, unlike you, I'm not trying to scare people with numbers. I'm simply stating what the monthly impact will be to the individuals budget.

And I will reiterate, individuals with a mortgage will never even know there was an increase because property tax is build into their mortgage.

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, PlayActionPass said:

Yes, I have an answer.

But, unlike you, I'm not trying to scare people with numbers. I'm simply stating what the monthly impact will be to the individuals budget.

And I will reiterate, individuals with a mortgage will never even know there was an increase because property tax is build into their mortgage.

So, facts scare people?  If releasing exactly how much this massive bond will cost the taxpayer when it's all said and done will scare people -- then that in it's self is enough to vote no!

[Reagan]

On 3/30/2019 at 11:04 PM, Reagan said:

OK, if the bond passes, the principal amount is $156,000,000.  But, there is interest on this.  So, after the bond is paid off, including principle and interest -- what will be the actual total cost of the bond to the taxpayer?

Very simple question I asked last Friday.  Again -- what's the total cost (Principal and Interest) of the bond?  There's only two ways of looking at this:  Either people do not know, or, they don't want that figure floating around there too much!

[WOSgrad]

20 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Very simple question I asked last Friday.  Again -- what's the total cost (Principal and Interest) of the bond?  There's only two ways of looking at this:  Either people do not know, or, they don't want that figure floating around there too much!

I don't know the answer to that question, do you?

[mat]

39 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Very simple question I asked last Friday.  Again -- what's the total cost (Principal and Interest) of the bond?  There's only two ways of looking at this:  Either people do not know, or, they don't want that figure floating around there too much!

There's no way to accurately know that information until the bonds are actually sold. Realistically, if the bond passes, bonds won't be sold for possibly a year or more. I think it would be irresponsible to try and project an accurate interest rate that far in advance. Even then they will probably be sold in phases so the tax payer potentially may not see an increase for two years and the increase may be in increments. Tax payers will not be hit with an immediate total tax increase. 

[Rez]

Does Nederland ISD have a good bond rating? I can't see how they wouldn't. That will determine the interest rate. I did a quick search and apparently the interest rate is similar to that of a mortgage -- So not zero, but it's not like bad credit card debt. Until the bond actually passes and Nederland goes and gets the debt we won't know exactly what the interest rate will be -- Divided over the life of the loan, we are talking about a significant number, but only a marginal increase in monthly payments, and that likely amount to a relatively small amount per month, per household. I don't think interest consideration will -- or should -- drive the conversation. 

 

[Rez]

As far as the "people without kids having to pay for the education of people with kids" argument -- That complaint just doesn't hold water. The very foundation of taxation involves the government taking money from you to spend it on things that may or may not benefit you directly, but which do benefit you indirectly in the long run. It's not a perfect system and I am 100% for lowering taxes across the board, but every time we pay taxes we are sending our money off to be spent on who knows what -- At least with this bond we know exactly what it will be spent on. And those kids you pay for now are going to be in the workforce in a few years and state, local, and federal taxes will come out of their pockets, and some/many of the benefits from those taxes will go to a bunch of people who either don't work or are two old to work anymore in the form of roads, law enforcement, welfare, etc. Those kids are joining a workforce that is disproportionately small compared to the enormous -- and expensive -- population of retiring Baby Boomers, and they will spend the rest of their lives facing tax increase after tax increase to help provide benefits for, among other things, a bunch of people who may or may not have complained about getting those kids a decent school building and a football field that doesn't look like a water buffalo mating ground. The older generation worked hard and was taxed and those taxes went to things the taxpayers probably didn't want to pay for and in a few years the high school generation will enter that universally unfair system. I say, God Bless Texas -- everyone on this thread already benefits from low state taxes. You can always move to New York and watch the tax collectors destroy your take-home money. 

[Reagan]

46 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

I don't know the answer to that question, do you?

No.  That's why I'm asking.  I figured someone would know. 

[Reagan]

21 minutes ago, mat said:

There's no way to accurately know that information until the bonds are actually sold. Realistically, if the bond passes, bonds won't be sold for possibly a year or more. I think it would be irresponsible to try and project an accurate interest rate that far in advance. Even then they will probably be sold in phases so the tax payer potentially may not see an increase for two years and the increase may be in increments. Tax payers will not be hit with an immediate total tax increase. 

Interesting!

[PlayActionPass]

18 hours ago, Reagan said:

So, facts scare people?  If releasing exactly how much this massive bond will cost the taxpayer when it's all said and done will scare people -- then that in it's self is enough to vote no!

You are wrong. The overall number is not what people need to be looking at when they vote. They need to be looking at how much it is going to cost "them" the individual and what they are willing to sacrifice to benefit the children of Nederland and prepare the students of Nederland ISD for the future. People like you want to put these big numbers out there and scare people into voting no. When in all actuality, the hit to the individual is very small. 

[CardinalBacker]

8 hours ago, PlayActionPass said:

You are wrong. The overall number is not what people need to be looking at when they vote. They need to be looking at how much it is going to cost "them" the individual and what they are willing to sacrifice to benefit the children of Nederland and prepare the students of Nederland ISD for the future. People like you want to put these big numbers out there and scare people into voting no. When in all actuality, the hit to the individual is very small. 

No offense, but one day I'll hear "It'll ONLY cost you $30/month" which is then followed by "nobody really knows what it will cost based on the interest rates at the times at which the bonds are actually issued."

$30 a month is a woeful guess that is intentionally lower than the cost to the typical taxpayer.  It's practically a lie.  The typical home in Nederland is worth substantially more than that... so we'll just use $200,000 and assume a $100/month or $1200 year for the taxes on your home... because as we all know, the homestead exemption is a static amount.  Your exemption saves you the same $$ amount no matter how much your home is worth.  You actually pay more tax on the 2nd $100k than you do on the first $100k.  There's no dispute there.   If you are fortunate(?) enough to have more than just your homestead, the taxes on your "other" (hopefully revenue creating) properties will go up to.  The good news is that you can pass those increased taxes onto your tenants or customers....  Which brings me to my next point.  Every business that operates inside the NISD will see their tax burden increased.  They WILL NOT just bear the additional costs... they WILL pass them onto their consumers.  Every gas station, grocery store, shop, restaurant, etc... will be passing their new tax burden onto the public as well.  The sad thing is that places operate on a profit basis..  If their taxes go up by 2%, not only will they have to recoup the taxes, they're going up even higher than the tax amount because they HAVE to if their net profit is going to stay static.  If the cost of doing business goes up, the profit taking will have to increase to maintain the margins that investors are expecting.  

So not only will the average Bulldog pay his own higher property taxes, he'll also be paying those increased taxes for all of the local businesses they shop with, and even paying higher prices above and beyond what the tax liabilty for those businesses will be in order to add profit to the business owners.  

I'm not gonna spout off some LIE like "It'll only cost $30 month....."  I'm going to guess that the typical Nederlander will be paying somewhere between 150-200 month if the bond is passed.  You know, $1800-2400 of net dollars that the taxpayer won't get to use for themselves each year.  

The loose calculations say that $156 mill is the sticker... with interest over time the actual costs are anticipated to cost in the neighborhood of $225 million. 

 

But I get it... it works a lot better to say "$30/month"

[NDNation]

Those school aren't going to last forever. Do it now before it's REALLY an issue and becomes an emergency at one of those schools. 

[mat]

5 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

No offense, but one day I'll hear "It'll ONLY cost you $30/month" which is then followed by "nobody really knows what it will cost based on the interest rates at the times at which the bonds are actually issued."

$30 a month is a woeful guess that is intentionally lower than the cost to the typical taxpayer.  It's practically a lie.  The typical home in Nederland is worth substantially more than that... so we'll just use $200,000 and assume a $100/month or $1200 year for the taxes on your home... because as we all know, the homestead exemption is a static amount.  Your exemption saves you the same $$ amount no matter how much your home is worth.  You actually pay more tax on the 2nd $100k than you do on the first $100k.  There's no dispute there.   If you are fortunate(?) enough to have more than just your homestead, the taxes on your "other" (hopefully revenue creating) properties will go up to.  The good news is that you can pass those increased taxes onto your tenants or customers....  Which brings me to my next point.  Every business that operates inside the NISD will see their tax burden increased.  They WILL NOT just bear the additional costs... they WILL pass them onto their consumers.  Every gas station, grocery store, shop, restaurant, etc... will be passing their new tax burden onto the public as well.  The sad thing is that places operate on a profit basis..  If their taxes go up by 2%, not only will they have to recoup the taxes, they're going up even higher than the tax amount because they HAVE to if their net profit is going to stay static.  If the cost of doing business goes up, the profit taking will have to increase to maintain the margins that investors are expecting.  

So not only will the average Bulldog pay his own higher property taxes, he'll also be paying those increased taxes for all of the local businesses they shop with, and even paying higher prices above and beyond what the tax liabilty for those businesses will be in order to add profit to the business owners.  

I'm not gonna spout off some LIE like "It'll only cost $30 month....."  I'm going to guess that the typical Nederlander will be paying somewhere between 150-200 month if the bond is passed.  You know, $1800-2400 of net dollars that the taxpayer won't get to use for themselves each year.  

The loose calculations say that $156 mill is the sticker... with interest over time the actual costs are anticipated to cost in the neighborhood of $225 million. 

 

But I get it... it works a lot better to say "$30/month"

My reference to an unknown interest rate was directed to the question of the total cost on top of 156,000,000. The unknown tax rate/variance will have little effect on the monthly tax increase. Reality is, you bring 156,000,000 worth of construction and 100+ workers at a time to your community, it increases revenue. More restaurant business, hotels, fuel sold for equipment and individuals, local hardware shopping etc.

I feel your projected monthly cost is inflated quite a bit. JMO. I'll try to provide more info to support my opinion when I have more time.

[CardinalBacker]

12 hours ago, mat said:

My reference to an unknown interest rate was directed to the question of the total cost on top of 156,000,000. The unknown tax rate/variance will have little effect on the monthly tax increase. Reality is, you bring 156,000,000 worth of construction and 100+ workers at a time to your community, it increases revenue. More restaurant business, hotels, fuel sold for equipment and individuals, local hardware shopping etc.

I feel your projected monthly cost is inflated quite a bit. JMO. I'll try to provide more info to support my opinion when I have more time.

Do you expect the workers to be in town spending money for the entire time that the debt is being repaid?  No offense, but when you pay a man $150/day for his wages and he buys lunch at Bobby's, he's leaving about $3 worth of profit behind before he heads back to wherever he lives. 

[Michele]

I'd rather pass the bond now and pay whatever the increase is NOW rather than waiting another 5, 10, 15 years when the price tag is MUCH HIGHER.  Passing the bond now makes a lot more sense to me.  People that want to vote no now will be asking themselves later why didn't we do this earlier when it was at a cheaper rate.

[Bigdog]

5 hours ago, Michele said:

I'd rather pass the bond now and pay whatever the increase is NOW rather than waiting another 5, 10, 15 years when the price tag is MUCH HIGHER.  Passing the bond now makes a lot more sense to me.  People that want to vote no now will be asking themselves later why didn't we do this earlier when it was at a cheaper rate.

Actually most of them will be gearing up to vote no on the next one, which is why the schools are in the shape they are now.   They need the people with school age kids voting instead of people without that aren't going to do anything but gripe about their taxes.

[Reagan]

On 4/2/2019 at 4:11 PM, CardinalBacker said:

No offense, but one day I'll hear "It'll ONLY cost you $30/month" which is then followed by "nobody really knows what it will cost based on the interest rates at the times at which the bonds are actually issued."

$30 a month is a woeful guess that is intentionally lower than the cost to the typical taxpayer.  It's practically a lie.  The typical home in Nederland is worth substantially more than that... so we'll just use $200,000 and assume a $100/month or $1200 year for the taxes on your home... because as we all know, the homestead exemption is a static amount.  Your exemption saves you the same $$ amount no matter how much your home is worth.  You actually pay more tax on the 2nd $100k than you do on the first $100k.  There's no dispute there.   If you are fortunate(?) enough to have more than just your homestead, the taxes on your "other" (hopefully revenue creating) properties will go up to.  The good news is that you can pass those increased taxes onto your tenants or customers....  Which brings me to my next point.  Every business that operates inside the NISD will see their tax burden increased.  They WILL NOT just bear the additional costs... they WILL pass them onto their consumers.  Every gas station, grocery store, shop, restaurant, etc... will be passing their new tax burden onto the public as well.  The sad thing is that places operate on a profit basis..  If their taxes go up by 2%, not only will they have to recoup the taxes, they're going up even higher than the tax amount because they HAVE to if their net profit is going to stay static.  If the cost of doing business goes up, the profit taking will have to increase to maintain the margins that investors are expecting.  

So not only will the average Bulldog pay his own higher property taxes, he'll also be paying those increased taxes for all of the local businesses they shop with, and even paying higher prices above and beyond what the tax liabilty for those businesses will be in order to add profit to the business owners.  

I'm not gonna spout off some LIE like "It'll only cost $30 month....."  I'm going to guess that the typical Nederlander will be paying somewhere between 150-200 month if the bond is passed.  You know, $1800-2400 of net dollars that the taxpayer won't get to use for themselves each year.  

The loose calculations say that $156 mill is the sticker... with interest over time the actual costs are anticipated to cost in the neighborhood of $225 million. 

 

But I get it... it works a lot better to say "$30/month"

At least somebody gets it.  The mere fact that the pro-bonders don't want to talk about the actual overall cost is telling in itself!  It worries them.  The want to get off those massive numbers as quick as they can!