Nederland Bond PASSES!!!!

[WOSdrummer99]

What if Nederland was the next Columbine, sandy hook, or Santa fe? Would it matter if your city becomes famous for having 40 year old schools that dont have modern security measures in place? Just another thing to consider. I hope and pray that would never happen to any school again. But I know better.

[PhatMack19]

On 4/2/2019 at 4:11 PM, CardinalBacker said:

No offense, but one day I'll hear "It'll ONLY cost you $30/month" which is then followed by "nobody really knows what it will cost based on the interest rates at the times at which the bonds are actually issued."

$30 a month is a woeful guess that is intentionally lower than the cost to the typical taxpayer.  It's practically a lie.  The typical home in Nederland is worth substantially more than that... so we'll just use $200,000 and assume a $100/month or $1200 year for the taxes on your home... because as we all know, the homestead exemption is a static amount.  Your exemption saves you the same $$ amount no matter how much your home is worth.  You actually pay more tax on the 2nd $100k than you do on the first $100k.  There's no dispute there.   If you are fortunate(?) enough to have more than just your homestead, the taxes on your "other" (hopefully revenue creating) properties will go up to.  The good news is that you can pass those increased taxes onto your tenants or customers....  Which brings me to my next point.  Every business that operates inside the NISD will see their tax burden increased.  They WILL NOT just bear the additional costs... they WILL pass them onto their consumers.  Every gas station, grocery store, shop, restaurant, etc... will be passing their new tax burden onto the public as well.  The sad thing is that places operate on a profit basis..  If their taxes go up by 2%, not only will they have to recoup the taxes, they're going up even higher than the tax amount because they HAVE to if their net profit is going to stay static.  If the cost of doing business goes up, the profit taking will have to increase to maintain the margins that investors are expecting.  

So not only will the average Bulldog pay his own higher property taxes, he'll also be paying those increased taxes for all of the local businesses they shop with, and even paying higher prices above and beyond what the tax liabilty for those businesses will be in order to add profit to the business owners.  

I'm not gonna spout off some LIE like "It'll only cost $30 month....."  I'm going to guess that the typical Nederlander will be paying somewhere between 150-200 month if the bond is passed.  You know, $1800-2400 of net dollars that the taxpayer won't get to use for themselves each year.  

The loose calculations say that $156 mill is the sticker... with interest over time the actual costs are anticipated to cost in the neighborhood of $225 million. 

 

But I get it... it works a lot better to say "$30/month"

Nederland has the lowest tax rate in the area by far.  Our local businesses should be killing it now, since they are priced cheaper than everyone in the area right?

[PhatMack19]

On 4/1/2019 at 11:39 AM, PlayActionPass said:

Yes, I have an answer.

But, unlike you, I'm not trying to scare people with numbers. I'm simply stating what the monthly impact will be to the individuals budget.

And I will reiterate, individuals with a mortgage will never even know there was an increase because property tax is build into their mortgage.

That’s not true.  Your principle and interest will stay the same, but your escrow account(taxes and insurance) will increase.  This will raise your house note.  

[Reagan]

10 hours ago, PhatMack19 said:

That’s not true.  Your principle and interest will stay the same, but your escrow account(taxes and insurance) will increase.  This will raise your house note.  

Again -- I'm glad somebody gets it!

[Rez]

16 hours ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

What if Nederland was the next Columbine, sandy hook, or Santa fe? Would it matter if your city becomes famous for having 40 year old schools that dont have modern security measures in place? Just another thing to consider. I hope and pray that would never happen to any school again. But I know better.

Forgive me if this information has already been given, but is it a sure thing that the improvements are to include security updates? 

[WOSgrad]

22 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

Forgive me if this information has already been given, but is it a sure thing that the improvements are to include security updates? 

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[Blockdownandkickout!]

So I have read through this and it seems to boil down to this, for those of you just joining and don't want to read all 10 pages.

 

some people on here don't want new schools, new technology, or athletic facilities, for the students of Nederland because they believe the cost is too much, and/or they shouldn't have to pay because they don't have kids that go to school there any more. They also argue that the facilities were good enough for them why not good enough for the future. 

 

the other group says the bond is over due, facilities are awful, and even illegal in regards to Accessibility for people with Disabilities for the stadium. They argue that classes are outdated, and overcrowded, and that the learning environment doesn't prepare students for the future in the best possible way. This group argues that the students deserve better and that the while it is expensive it will only get more expensive as time goes on. 

 

there 10 pages down to two paragraphs,

your welcome. 

[aki1994]

So all of those that do not want it because they don't have students there hopefully won't be pissed when their home values drop as Nederland folks move on to better school districts and it all goes down hill. 

Be sure and keep your yard looking great while your schools look like something out of a 1960 ghetto

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, Blockdownandkickout! said:

So I have read through this and it seems to boil down to this, for those of you just joining and don't want to read all 10 pages.

 

some people on here don't want new schools, new technology, or athletic facilities, for the students of Nederland because they believe the cost is too much, and/or they shouldn't have to pay because they don't have kids that go to school there any more. They also argue that the facilities were good enough for them why not good enough for the future. 

 

the other group says the bond is over due, facilities are awful, and even illegal in regards to Accessibility for people with Disabilities for the stadium. They argue that classes are outdated, and overcrowded, and that the learning environment doesn't prepare students for the future in the best possible way. This group argues that the students deserve better and that the while it is expensive it will only get more expensive as time goes on. 

 

there 10 pages down to two paragraphs,

your welcome. 

It's not that simple.  Most people agree that something needs to be done.  What is proposed is by far the most expensive bond issue per capita in the history of SETX.... which is saying a lot, considering that PAISD spends more per student than any other district in the state.  

Very few people are opposed to doing anything at all.  But opposition to this monstrous burden doesn't mean that a person is opposed to progess.  

Just because I believe in Christmas doesn't mean I have to give my kid Ferrari on 12/25. And refusing to buy that Ferrari doesn't mean that I don't believe in celebrating the birth of my Lord and Savior, either. 

The sad fact is that a lot of people in positions of power (elected and otherwise) see how beneficial these bond issues can be personally.... like for the folks in BISD.  If you really think that contractors, designers, ELECTRICIANS, etc, didn't send cash back to the the folks that made that bond issue occur, you're painfully sheltered.  The sad thing is people who are over here honking about wanting the bond who aren't even gonna get a slice of that pie like the others will, lol. 

[Bigdog]

5 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

It's not that simple.  Most people agree that something needs to be done.  What is proposed is by far the most expensive bond issue per capita in the history of SETX.... which is saying a lot, considering that PAISD spends more per student than any other district in the state.  

Very few people are opposed to doing anything at all.  But opposition to this monstrous burden doesn't mean that a person is opposed to progess.  

Just because I believe in Christmas doesn't mean I have to give my kid Ferrari on 12/25. And refusing to buy that Ferrari doesn't mean that I don't believe in celebrating the birth of my Lord and Savior, either. 

The sad fact is that a lot of people in positions of power (elected and otherwise) see how beneficial these bond issues can be personally.... like for the folks in BISD.  If you really think that contractors, designers, ELECTRICIANS, etc, didn't send cash back to the the folks that made that bond issue occur, you're painfully sheltered.  The sad thing is people who are over here honking about wanting the bond who aren't even gonna get a slice of that pie like the others will, lol. 

Lol.  There was a bond at PNG was almost a much and the sky didn’t fall, prices didn’t go up and no one moved out.   And the per capita doesn’t include the outlying areas that are in Nederland ISD.  And as far as doing something else, it’s been tried  there are people who are just no to anything they think is going to raise their taxes.

[Bigdog]

 

Looks like taxes may be going down, in addition to raises for teachers.  It would reduce the bond to a $24 month increase for a $100k house.

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[Reagan]

I'm curious:  The pro-bonders keep saying that it will only cost X amount per X amount of home value.  What happens to that X amount when/if home values rise every year through the appraisal district?  When ones home value rises will the amount one has to pay concerning this bond go up also?

[WOSgrad]

14 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I'm curious:  The pro-bonders keep saying that it will only cost X amount per X amount of home value.  What happens to that X amount when/if home values rise every year through the appraisal district?  When ones home value rises will the amount one has to pay concerning this bond go up also?

When a owner's home value increases, the amount of tax that they have to pay increases.....bond or no bond.

[Reagan]

On 4/1/2019 at 3:26 PM, mat said:

There's no way to accurately know that information until the bonds are actually sold. Realistically, if the bond passes, bonds won't be sold for possibly a year or more. I think it would be irresponsible to try and project an accurate interest rate that far in advance. Even then they will probably be sold in phases so the tax payer potentially may not see an increase for two years and the increase may be in increments. Tax payers will not be hit with an immediate total tax increase. 

This response was to my question of what would be the total cost of the bond, principle and interest.  mat stated that there is no way to know until the bonds are sold.  OK, I'll buy that.  So, let's look at the other end:  How can we come up with a statement that it's "only" going to cost X amount of dollars per X amount of home value if we have no way of knowing what the interest rate will be?  Help me out here!

[Reagan]

7 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

When a owner's home value increases, the amount of tax that they have to pay increases.....bond or no bond.

But -- will it be more because of the bond?  If so, then it won't stay low as they say.

[WOSgrad]

32 minutes ago, Reagan said:

But -- will it be more because of the bond?  If so, then it won't stay low as they say.

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[CardinalBacker]

It’s this plain. The bond will be 200+ Million dollars (principal and interest) taken from the local taxpayers over the term that the debt is repaid. That money will be sent off to wherever the lenders are located. 

In return, a small portion of that initial $156 million base will stay in the local economy based on lunches, gasoline, and whatever teeny-tiny fraction of materials are purchased locally... in the year or two that construction actually occurs. In the event that a few of the construction workers actually do live in Nederland, those temporary salaries would actually stay in Ned, too.  

7 hours ago, bigdog said:

 

Looks like taxes may be going down, in addition to raises for teachers.  It would reduce the bond to a $24 month increase for a $100k house.

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Lol. That’s the worst news ever. If NISD is locked into monstrous debt service AND taxes revenues are capped, the only solution left to stay on budget is to slash services!!!!!

Cut teaching positions, bus service, extracurriculars, etc.... because this new legislation would limit the amount of revenues available. 

How come nobody is mentioning the 40 year timeframe to repay this debt? Our taxes have multiplied many,many times over in the last 40 years.... 

[PlayActionPass]

@CardinalBacker

@Reagan

Just curious if either of you claim to be Christians?

[PhatMack19]

10 hours ago, Reagan said:

I'm curious:  The pro-bonders keep saying that it will only cost X amount per X amount of home value.  What happens to that X amount when/if home values rise every year through the appraisal district?  When ones home value rises will the amount one has to pay concerning this bond go up also?

That X amount is with the tax base we have now with no increases or new construction.  If the tax base goes up, the amount each person is taxed goes down. 

I saw an estimate that there were 500 residential lots left to build on in NISD.  That doesn’t include any houses that are being torn down or any business.  The cheapest houses being built are $200k.  $200k x 500 is $100 million more of tax base.  

This doesn’t include any value increases from current homes.  They can only increase your taxes a small percentage each year if you have a homestead.  If you have lived in your home for more than a few years, your taxable value is most likely way below market value.  That will stay lower until you sell and then JCAD will adjust it to near market.  If you don’t plan on selling anytime soon, then you don’t have to worry about your property value shooting up.

 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, PlayActionPass said:

@CardinalBacker

@Reagan

Just curious if either of you claim to be Christians?

Sure... Are you about to advocate for bringing prayer back into schools?  Or are you just going to say that as a Christian I should be willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES if somebody else can benefit from it?  

 

Because honestly, the 10% I pay in tithes covers my bases. 

[png9mon]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Sure... Are you about to advocate for bringing prayer back into schools?  Or are you just going to say that as a Christian I should be willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES if somebody else can benefit from it?  

 

Because honestly, the 10% I pay in tithes covers my bases. 

Hummm, I wonder if the inquire about whether ya'll are Christians are not, is so that PlayActionPass, can judge you more affectively.

Oh wait, it is not a Christians job to judge you, or your actions, so never mind. 

I have family in the Nederland ISd who are opposed to the bond, & some who are in favor.  I respect their beliefs, and reasons for their way of thinking, regardless of their personal relationship with our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. 

Back to the discussion of cost, not worship affiliation please.

[WOSgrad]

1 hour ago, png9mon said:

Hummm, I wonder if the inquire about whether ya'll are Christians are not, is so that PlayActionPass, can judge you more affectively.

Oh wait, it is not a Christians job to judge you, or your actions, so never mind. 

I have family in the Nederland ISd who are opposed to the bond, & some who are in favor.  I respect their beliefs, and reasons for their way of thinking, regardless of their personal relationship with our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. 

Back to the discussion of cost, not worship affiliation please.

Agreed.

[Reagan]

23 hours ago, Reagan said:

This response was to my question of what would be the total cost of the bond, principle and interest.  mat stated that there is no way to know until the bonds are sold.  OK, I'll buy that.  So, let's look at the other end:  How can we come up with a statement that it's "only" going to cost X amount of dollars per X amount of home value if we have no way of knowing what the interest rate will be?  Help me out here!

By the silence on my question, I can only presume that we really can't say it's only X amount per X amount of home value.  Without knowing the interest rate, how can anyone logically say they know what the cost to the tax payer will be?  I'm still open to an answer, if anyone has one!

[WOSgrad]

16 minutes ago, Reagan said:

By the silence on my question, I can only presume that we really can't say it's only X amount per X amount of home value.  Without knowing the interest rate, how can anyone logically say they know what the cost to the tax payer will be?  I'm still open to an answer, if anyone has one!

I don't know if you can make such an assumption based on apathy towards your question.

But also, it is obvious that you didn't read the primer I posted last night, it does contain the answer to this question.

[Reagan]

42 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

I don't know if you can make such an assumption based on apathy towards your question.

But also, it is obvious that you didn't read the primer I posted last night, it does contain the answer to this question.

Actually I did read it.  I read it again.  The interest rate is based on the district's bond rating.  Unless someone can officially say, I can only presume that an interest rate has already been implied to the district.  Is this how you see it?  If that's the case, fair enough.  So, on the other hand, if the interest rate is all ready in place, then the total bond cost should also be able to be implied.  Correct?