Nederland Bond PASSES!!!!

[WOSgrad]

8 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Actually I did read it.  I read it again.  The interest rate is based on the district's bond rating.  Unless someone can officially say, I can only presume that an interest rate has already been implied to the district.  Is this how you see it?  If that's the case, fair enough.  So, on the other hand, if the interest rate is all ready in place, then the total bond cost should also be able to be implied.  Correct?

That is what I gleaned from it.

[mat]

10 hours ago, Reagan said:

By the silence on my question, I can only presume that we really can't say it's only X amount per X amount of home value.  Without knowing the interest rate, how can anyone logically say they know what the cost to the tax payer will be?  I'm still open to an answer, if anyone has one!

I eluded to your question in a previous post. The actual/accurate interest rate is unknown and it would be difficult to accurately project the total cost of 156,000,000. However, that uncertainty would have a minimal affect when you're talking about the monthly tax variance to a home owner.

This is from the districts website. Since they state "maximum projected" I assume they are providing the worst case scenario.

I understand that if the bond issue is passed that school taxes will go up approximately 33 Cents per $100 of value. Will the tax rate be the same until all bonds have been paid? No. The only year projected to reach the maximum increase is tax year 2020. That is when the tax rate is at its’ highest point. It is projected that the tax rate will then decrease slightly each year thereafter. 

 What is the total projected tax impact to the owner of a $125,000 home? Will this amount of tax increase be consistent throughout the 25-year bonded indebtedness? The maximum projected tax increase for a home valued at $125,000 will be $27.50 per month in 2020 assuming that both bond propositions pass. The cost will probably be less in the years following 2020, as the value of the district increases, the tax rate amount needed to pay the bond debt will go down.

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[PhatMack19]

12 hours ago, Reagan said:

Actually I did read it.  I read it again.  The interest rate is based on the district's bond rating.  Unless someone can officially say, I can only presume that an interest rate has already been implied to the district.  Is this how you see it?  If that's the case, fair enough.  So, on the other hand, if the interest rate is all ready in place, then the total bond cost should also be able to be implied.  Correct?

Interest rates change and not all of the bonds are sold at the same time.  There is no way to predict the exact interest rate for when each of the bonds is sold.  

The projections the CAC is putting out is the worst case scenario which is 99.9% not likely to happen.  

[CardinalBacker]

The whole argument is ingenious at best. We keep hearing “it’s only $30 a month.” Who talks about taxes in terms of monthly expenses? It’s always annual. Most people would instead say “my freakin’ school taxes went up by $400 this year!” 

Same thing, just a little more relevant. 

If you own a $250k house and your taxes are escrowed by your lender, you’re a lot more likely to say “my house note went up by $150 a month!” in year two.  Your lender has no way to know that your tax bill we be increasing, so the first year that the higher taxes are due, there will be a shortfall in your escrow account of however much your taxes went up. The next year you’ll be putting 2x the additional tax amount into escrow so that you can replenish AND pay the higher rate in full by 12/31. 

$30 a month is the exact same as saying “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” regarding health insurance in 2010. And instead of going down, health insurance rates have skyrocketed. These “it’s only $400/year” pardon me.... “it’s only $30/month” people wont have much to say when the actual costs are much higher than than promised. 

[Blockdownandkickout!]

I think everyone understands that cost will go up. That has been established, and everyone gets it. I think what the people of Ned need to consider is by not doing the bond now, how much more will it cost in 5 years? 10? If this keeps getting kicked down the road the price tag will only go up. It’s pretty clear something has to be done to bring facilities up to par. 

[CardinalBacker]

9 minutes ago, Blockdownandkickout! said:

I think everyone understands that cost will go up. That has been established, and everyone gets it. I think what the people of Ned need to consider is by not doing the bond now, how much more will it cost in 5 years? 10? If this keeps getting kicked down the road the price tag will only go up. It’s pretty clear something has to be done to bring facilities up to par. 

You’re right.... if I don’t buy that new King Ranch F350 this year, it’ll probably be more expensive to buy in five or ten years. 

Except I really don’t need a King Ranch F350. Sometimes a cloth interior in a half ton is just right. 

I’d be curious as to what would happen if they were to roll out few bond packages instead of an “all or nothing” approach. 

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

The whole argument is ingenious at best. We keep hearing “it’s only $30 a month.” Who talks about taxes in terms of monthly expenses? It’s always annual. Most people would instead say “my freakin’ school taxes went up by $400 this year!” 

Same thing, just a little more relevant. 

If you own a $250k house and your taxes are escrowed by your lender, you’re a lot more likely to say “my house note went up by $150 a month!” in year two.  Your lender has no way to know that your tax bill we be increasing, so the first year that the higher taxes are due, there will be a shortfall in your escrow account of however much your taxes went up. The next year you’ll be putting 2x the additional tax amount into escrow so that you can replenish AND pay the higher rate in full by 12/31. 

$30 a month is the exact same as saying “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” regarding health insurance in 2010. And instead of going down, health insurance rates have skyrocketed. These “it’s only $400/year” pardon me.... “it’s only $30/month” people wont have much to say when the actual costs are much higher than than promised. 

I'm sure, but not 100% positive, Bob Meeks told the board and the CAC to be as benign as possible with the cost verbage.  This may be why we hear that repeated again and again. 

[Blockdownandkickout!]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

You’re right.... if I don’t buy that new King Ranch F350 this year, it’ll probably be more expensive to buy in five or ten years. 

Except I really don’t need a King Ranch F350. Sometimes a cloth interior in a half ton is just right. 

I’d be curious as to what would happen if they were to roll out few bond packages instead of an “all or nothing” approach. 

Except right now they are rolling around in a 70 ford that cost more to keep running than the vehicle is worth. Ex the truck is 4,000 but every year you have to replace the water pump, the brakes, the suspension, the transmission etc all needs work. Do you keep sinking money into the money pit or do you upgrade? As long as the bond money goes to a new school building in a cost effective manner. Where teachers and students are safe and provided a quality learning environment that will be a investment in Nederlands future I think people should support it. But that’s just my 2cents.

[CardinalBacker]

39 minutes ago, Blockdownandkickout! said:

Except right now they are rolling around in a 70 ford that cost more to keep running than the vehicle is worth. Ex the truck is 4,000 but every year you have to replace the water pump, the brakes, the suspension, the transmission etc all needs work. Do you keep sinking money into the money pit or do you upgrade? As long as the bond money goes to a new school building in a cost effective manner. Where teachers and students are safe and provided a quality learning environment that will be a investment in Nederlands future I think people should support it. But that’s just my 2cents.

I agree with you. The problem isn’t a question of whether or not improvements are needed. But just because changes are needed is no excuse to “go for broke.” 

The pro-bond camp keeps trying to paint opposition to this MONSTROUS bond issue as being anti-change and anti-kid. 

The truth is that Nederland has passed bonds in the past. It’s not impossible. But this level of borrowing and spending is just insane for a town with stagnant growth. 

[WOSgrad]

51 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

I agree with you. The problem isn’t a question of whether or not improvements are needed. But just because changes are needed is no excuse to “go for broke.” 

The pro-bond camp keeps trying to paint opposition to this MONSTROUS bond issue as being anti-change and anti-kid. 

The truth is that Nederland has passed bonds in the past. It’s not impossible. But this level of borrowing and spending is just insane for a town with stagnant growth. 

Well.......in 2009 as part of a $120.3 bond issue, 24.5 million would have gone to extensive renovation of Nederland High, which having been built in 1971 appears to be the youngest of the schools in the Nederland ISD as at the time the average age of a Nederland ISD school was about 50 years old.  Including an elementary that was built in 1938.

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The 2009 bond issue was defeated 3252-853.

That renovation cost, should the district have gone that way for this bond issue, would have been, according to Nederland ISD, $38 million, an increase of $17.5 million since the 2009 bond.

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In 2009, another part of the bond was $50 million to build 3 new elementary new elementary schools in the district.

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The 2009 bond issue was defeated 3252-853.

In 2012, a proposition for a new Hillcrest Elementary, which would have cost $16.5 million was also voted down.

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In the 2019, as part of the bond, upgrade and new construction cost for the district's 4 elementary schools is, according to the Nederland ISD, 49.1 million dollars, just $17,4 less than the cost of 4 brand spanking new elementary schools had those bonds passed. 

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The district in 2019, after being denied by Nederland ISD voters in both 2009

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and 2012

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have decided to only go for maintenance of the district's middle schools. 

The way I see it, it is like the old Fram oil filter commercial, "You can pay me now, or pay me later,"

[PhatMack19]

On 4/6/2019 at 1:29 PM, CardinalBacker said:

The whole argument is ingenious at best. We keep hearing “it’s only $30 a month.” Who talks about taxes in terms of monthly expenses? It’s always annual. Most people would instead say “my freakin’ school taxes went up by $400 this year!” 

Same thing, just a little more relevant. 

If you own a $250k house and your taxes are escrowed by your lender, you’re a lot more likely to say “my house note went up by $150 a month!” in year two.  Your lender has no way to know that your tax bill we be increasing, so the first year that the higher taxes are due, there will be a shortfall in your escrow account of however much your taxes went up. The next year you’ll be putting 2x the additional tax amount into escrow so that you can replenish AND pay the higher rate in full by 12/31. 

$30 a month is the exact same as saying “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” regarding health insurance in 2010. And instead of going down, health insurance rates have skyrocketed. These “it’s only $400/year” pardon me.... “it’s only $30/month” people wont have much to say when the actual costs are much higher than than promised. 

A lot of people budget monthly, so saying $30 a month is clearer than saying the yearly price.  

You have a buffer in your escrow account that covers things like this.  When you buy a house your lender requires you pay 3-4 months of taxes up front to cover price increases.   You won’t have to pay double the next year.  

[fox]

they are asking for too much at once.

[Bigdog]

17 minutes ago, fox said:

they are asking for too much at once.

The alternative is asking more later. Some people don’t seem to get that when the keep voting down bonds.

[CardinalBacker]

2 hours ago, PhatMack19 said:

A lot of people budget monthly, so saying $30 a month is clearer than saying the yearly price.  

You have a buffer in your escrow account that covers things like this.  When you buy a house your lender requires you pay 3-4 months of taxes up front to cover price increases.   You won’t have to pay double the next year.  

I’ll be honest.... I’ve never once heard anybody say “Jeez, my taxes went up by $80/month!” Every single person has said “my taxes went up by almost a thousand dollars last year!” But I understand that’s how people try to sell an unsupportable proposition. For example...Oil is sold by the barrel. All discussions of production and pricing are given by, you guessed it, the barrel. But let somebody spill some oil in the ship channel and suddenly they’re on the news saying “Big Oil spilled FIFTY-FIVE HUNDRED GALLONS of oil into our waterway” instead of “the spill was limited to 100 barrels.” It’s all about influencing people. 

No, that’s incorrect. You won’t have to pay double the total tax amount, but homeowners who are escrowed will pay double the increase in year two. 

Youre escrow is calculated so that you have enough on hand to pay your insurance when it’s due and enough on hand to pay your taxes when they’re due. If you have an unexpected increase in your taxes, they will be paid, but your escrow will be re-calculated to recoup the excess that was just paid AND to assure that an adequate amount will be on hand when the taxes are due next year. 

Lets say that your taxes have been running $2400/year... so all this year (2019) you’re putting $200/month into your escrow account. Now the tax bill comes around in November of 2019 and your tax bill is now $3000.... the taxes are still paid on time by utilizing the excess in escrow (which could be your cushion or it just comes out of what is being accumulated for your insurance renewal. But the lender will absolutely recalculate to recover the shortfall caused by the unexpectedly higher tax bill. They will all consider your new higher tax liability and collect for that, too. So for 2020 you’d be paying into escrow enough to cover your new $3000 tax bill, plus $600 to recover the 2019 tax shortfall, or $3600. Which works out to $300 per month as opposed to the $200 per you were depositing pre-tax increase. 

Of course it should straighten up after a year or two and settle into your new $3000 school tax bill. 

 

[Reagan]

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[mat]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I’ll be honest.... I’ve never once heard anybody say “Jeez, my taxes went up by $80/month!” Every single person has said “my taxes went up by almost a thousand dollars last year!” But I understand that’s how people try to sell an unsupportable proposition. For example...Oil is sold by the barrel. All discussions of production and pricing are given by, you guessed it, the barrel. But let somebody spill some oil in the ship channel and suddenly they’re on the news saying “Big Oil spilled FIFTY-FIVE HUNDRED GALLONS of oil into our waterway” instead of “the spill was limited to 100 barrels.” It’s all about influencing people. 

No, that’s incorrect. You won’t have to pay double the total tax amount, but homeowners who are escrowed will pay double the increase in year two. 

Youre escrow is calculated so that you have enough on hand to pay your insurance when it’s due and enough on hand to pay your taxes when they’re due. If you have an unexpected increase in your taxes, they will be paid, but your escrow will be re-calculated to recoup the excess that was just paid AND to assure that an adequate amount will be on hand when the taxes are due next year. 

Lets say that your taxes have been running $2400/year... so all this year (2019) you’re putting $200/month into your escrow account. Now the tax bill comes around in November of 2019 and your tax bill is now $3000.... the taxes are still paid on time by utilizing the excess in escrow (which could be your cushion or it just comes out of what is being accumulated for your insurance renewal. But the lender will absolutely recalculate to recover the shortfall caused by the unexpectedly higher tax bill. They will all consider your new higher tax liability and collect for that, too. So for 2020 you’d be paying into escrow enough to cover your new $3000 tax bill, plus $600 to recover the 2019 tax shortfall, or $3600. Which works out to $300 per month as opposed to the $200 per you were depositing pre-tax increase. 

Of course it should straighten up after a year or two and settle into your new $3000 school tax bill. 

 

No one says my truck note cost me 6000 a year. they say 500 a month. If you own a 250,000 home and understand your finances you probably won't be deceived buy a monthly increase statement rather than the yearly cost. Potato pototo.  

[PlayActionPass]

No judgement here, I respect everyone's right to their own opinion, choices, views and rights.

Some people are simply benevolent and others are not.

Some people are charitable and others are not.

Some people are giving and others are not.

Some people have a vision (long term) and others do not.

Not saying either group is right or wrong, just categorizing.

I mean some people choose to go the "cheap" route and others choose to go the "quality" route. Some people want the "best" for the kids of Nederland and some people think "adequate" is good enough.

Ultimately this bond is an investment in the future, and a long term solution to the facilities problems in Nederland ISD. 

But, those that are opposed are choosing to make it out to be an issue of a Superintendent or a School Board "over spending." Of packing the bond with "frivolous"  luxuries that are unnecessary. 

However, it is obvious by Nederland's bond history, it does not matter how small or simple the bond package is, some communities are reluctant or down right defiant to investing in the future generations.

Those people who say, "if it was good enough for me and mine then it is good enough for everybody else," tend to flock together. It is obvious Nederland is one of those places. 

[Reagan]

7 hours ago, PlayActionPass said:

No judgement here, I respect everyone's right to their own opinion, choices, views and rights.

Some people are simply benevolent and others are not.

Some people are charitable and others are not.

Some people are giving and others are not.

Some people have a vision (long term) and others do not.

Not saying either group is right or wrong, just categorizing.

I mean some people choose to go the "cheap" route and others choose to go the "quality" route. Some people want the "best" for the kids of Nederland and some people think "adequate" is good enough.

Ultimately this bond is an investment in the future, and a long term solution to the facilities problems in Nederland ISD. 

But, those that are opposed are choosing to make it out to be an issue of a Superintendent or a School Board "over spending." Of packing the bond with "frivolous"  luxuries that are unnecessary. 

However, it is obvious by Nederland's bond history, it does not matter how small or simple the bond package is, some communities are reluctant or down right defiant to investing in the future generations.

Those people who say, "if it was good enough for me and mine then it is good enough for everybody else," tend to flock together. It is obvious Nederland is one of those places. 

Nederland’s educational system will be excellent whether this massive bond passes or fails.  Whether some choose to believe it or not.  

[navydawg31]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

Nederland’s educational system will be excellent whether this massive bond passes or fails.  Whether some choose to believe it or not.  

We all hope it stays excellent... Educators will leave for a better work environment, Latest and greatest technology, and a city that cares and supports the educators and students as a whole by giving them a better quality to thrive in. Rather it passes or not I hope it doesn’t divide this city and set us back in whatever the people choose to do. 

[Bigdog]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

Nederland’s educational system will be excellent whether this massive bond passes or fails.  Whether some choose to believe it or not.  

it still doesn't excuse having poor facilities, no matter how you try to spin it.

[CardinalBacker]

20 hours ago, mat said:

No one says my truck note cost me 6000 a year. they say 500 a month. If you own a 250,000 home and understand your finances you probably won't be deceived buy a monthly increase statement rather than the yearly cost. Potato pototo.  

Actually, they'd say "My truck cost me $38,000."  So if you all want to say "$156 million + interest" I'm okay with that, too.

 

 

[CardinalBacker]

8 hours ago, PlayActionPass said:

No judgement here, I respect everyone's right to their own opinion, choices, views and rights.

Some people are simply benevolent and others are not.

Some people are charitable and others are not.

Some people are giving and others are not.

Some people have a vision (long term) and others do not.

Not saying either group is right or wrong, just categorizing.

I mean some people choose to go the "cheap" route and others choose to go the "quality" route. Some people want the "best" for the kids of Nederland and some people think "adequate" is good enough.

Ultimately this bond is an investment in the future, and a long term solution to the facilities problems in Nederland ISD. 

But, those that are opposed are choosing to make it out to be an issue of a Superintendent or a School Board "over spending." Of packing the bond with "frivolous"  luxuries that are unnecessary. 

However, it is obvious by Nederland's bond history, it does not matter how small or simple the bond package is, some communities are reluctant or down right defiant to investing in the future generations.

Those people who say, "if it was good enough for me and mine then it is good enough for everybody else," tend to flock together. It is obvious Nederland is one of those places. 

And some people believe that all of the world's problems can be fixed with other peoples' money.  Nothing is stopping you or anybody else from driving down to the admin building and scratching a personal check for however much you believe you can afford.  

The funny thing is that if you really felt so "charitable" "benevolent" and "giving" you'd at least be willing to forego your homestead exemption.  But you won't. 

[Bigdog]

33 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

And some people believe that all of the world's problems can be fixed with other peoples' money.  Nothing is stopping you or anybody else from driving down to the admin building and scratching a personal check for however much you believe you can afford.  

The funny thing is that if you really felt so "charitable" "benevolent" and "giving" you'd at least be willing to forego your homestead exemption.  But you won't. 

Lol.  How do you think schools run?  or roads that you drive on are built?  or the sewer and water lines that you use are maintained??   You want your roads smooth , your sewer and water lines working and not built with lead pipes but you want to keep old schools?    Make up your mind.

[png9mon]

Hey, old run down facilities makes you work harder for excellence, right?  Proven fact in Nederland,  Just look at the football field & stands.  The opposing teams have to take swimming lessons to play on that slop-house of a  field at Bulldog Stadium however, Nederland plays winning football there on a constant basis.  The narrow/no legroom seats in the stands cause headaches, knee aches and butt-bump aches for opposing fans, but they still come.  Of course, this is due mainly to the 30 minute wait at the bathrooms, which keeps part of the fans cleared out.  So take the athletic bond out all together.  Nederland is a conservative community, "no change is good for your pocketbook."  As far as the school buildings go, all the school kids need education, regardless of their participations in extracurricular activities.  It is high time to teach the kids the same premise all prior generations were raised on...Suck It Up & Deal With It!  Sadly, the way the educational system is turning, one day there will just be classes in Google, and they can be done from home via the internet.

*NOW, if you believe any of this bunk I typed above, you are opposed to the bond election, and basically a supporter of the absolutely no change is necessary because all you need for education is 4 walls of a classroom, right?  Time to think of the children in your community that deserve the best, because they work to be the best students.  Nederland can take pride in their students & step up with a show of that pride in facilities for those children. It is a tough choice, but one that must be made.  May God Bless You & Guide Each of You in Whatever Your Vote May Be! 

[Reagan]

I had forgot how massive the 2009 bond was defeated.  It was 3252-853.  I’m sure the school board and the CAC, who for some reason didn’t want the membership list exposed, sat around and wondered what it would take to move any of the 3252 over to the pro-bond side.  So their solution was:  take the newest school and demolish it to the tune of around $86,000,000.  Then, for good measure, tact on more to the tune of $156,000,000. With interest — it’ll be around $240,000,000 total!  When it’s all said and done, I think the silent majority will prevail and defeat this.  As of right now, I see it going down 60-40.  And that may be conservative!