Nederland Bond PASSES!!!!

[Reagan]

5 hours ago, PNG_Fan said:

Have some good friends who have kids coming up through Junior High level and good athletes say they’ll move their kids to either PNG or surrounding schools who put the kids first.

Why would they want to go anywhere else -- to lose?!  I think not!

[fox]

23 hours ago, PNG_Fan said:

Have some good friends who have kids coming up through Junior High level and good athletes say they’ll move their kids to either PNG or surrounding schools who put the kids first.

i heard a NED coach say they did not want turf fields in nederland.

[navydawg31]

54 minutes ago, fox said:

i heard a NED coach say they did not want turf fields in nederland.

That’s funny you say that cause every single one I have talked to said they are for it and hoping it gets passed. All of NISD Grass fields last year took a beating and messed up practice schedule and had to pay rent out of athletic money to hold practice else where. So I kinda find it funny that this Ned coach said that... 

[fox]

2 hours ago, navydawg31 said:

That’s funny you say that cause every single one I have talked to said they are for it and hoping it gets passed. All of NISD Grass fields last year took a beating and messed up practice schedule and had to pay rent out of athletic money to hold practice else where. So I kinda find it funny that this Ned coach said that... 

i was surprised when i heard it also.

it had something to do with wanting to stay old school and tough.

i guess he thought having too many fancy things make you soft. 

[The Icon]

43 minutes ago, fox said:

i was surprised when i heard it also.

it had something to do with wanting to stay old school and tough.

i guess he thought having too many fancy things make you soft. 

The surface on which athletes perform does not cultivate toughness.

[Reagan]

On 2/15/2019 at 8:54 AM, bigdog said:

I believe 155.6 million  I will have to double check.

So, let's keep this amount in front of everyone:  155,600,000 Million Dollars!  So, let me understand something -- the last bond was used to make upgrades to certain schools.  Now, this bond is wanted to tear down these schools that bond money was used for the last time around.  Hummm!  Isn't the previous bond still being paid for?  

[fox]

26 minutes ago, Reagan said:

So, let's keep this amount in front of everyone:  155,600,000 Million Dollars!  So, let me understand something -- the last bond was used to make upgrades to certain schools.  Now, this bond is wanted to tear down these schools that bond money was used for the last time around.  Hummm!  Isn't the previous bond still being paid for?  

if passed how much would this raise the citizens of nederlands taxes?

[MMosley07]

2 hours ago, Reagan said:

So, let's keep this amount in front of everyone:  155,600,000 Million Dollars!  So, let me understand something -- the last bond was used to make upgrades to certain schools.  Now, this bond is wanted to tear down these schools that bond money was used for the last time around.  Hummm!  Isn't the previous bond still being paid for?  

The High School is the only building proposed to be demoed. 

New High School ($82.7M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Built at same location
*Focus on advancing CTE program needs
*Designed learning environment based upon program 
capacity and modern teaching practices to strengthen 
and expand the academic experience
*Performing Arts Center will remain in current location

Elementary School New Learning Areas and Improvements ($49.1M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Additional classrooms including flexible learning & 
teaching spaces
*5th grade expansion
*Improved drop off/pick-up and parking
*Additional & improved restrooms
*Expanded and improved cafeteria & gym
*Additional program space for occupational and 
physical therapy

Middle School Improvements ($11.1M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Improved classrooms including flexible learning & 
teaching spaces
*Improved drop off/pick-up and parking
*Additional & improved restrooms

Technology Initiative ($4.8M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Fiber optics
*Infrastructure
*1:1 devices

Safety & Security ($3.4M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*District wide improvements limiting physical access to 
campuses
*Additional cameras
*Safety vestibules

Stadium Upgrades ($4.5M) - SEPARATE PROPOSITION
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Field turf
*Improved restrooms
*Improved press-box 
*Modified seating
*ADA required updates

2 hours ago, fox said:

if passed how much would this raise the citizens of nederlands taxes?

Approximately $27.50 / month for a $100k house.

Approximately $55 / month for a $200k house.

Approximately $82.50 / month for a $300k house.

Approximately $110 / month for a $400k house.

Etc.

Disclaimer:
This is a personal account. Statements made on this account are not official statements of the Nederland ISD. The opinions shared on this account do not represent the views of the Nederland ISD or the Board of Trustees.

 

[navydawg31]

4 hours ago, Reagan said:

So, let's keep this amount in front of everyone:  155,600,000 Million Dollars!  So, let me understand something -- the last bond was used to make upgrades to certain schools.  Now, this bond is wanted to tear down these schools that bond money was used for the last time around.  Hummm!  Isn't the previous bond still being paid for?  

So what Mr. Mosley put as well as attending the meeting the previous bonds help get started fixing the schools. This bond takes it that much farther and better. NHS has been screwed up since the day it was built... what were they thinking no walk open concept classrooms.. 

[Reagan]

3 hours ago, navydawg31 said:

So what Mr. Mosley put as well as attending the meeting the previous bonds help get started fixing the schools. This bond takes it that much farther and better. NHS has been screwed up since the day it was built... what were they thinking no walk open concept classrooms.. 

Curious:  Has this hindered any student from getting a quality education?  I believe the SAT scores are usually pretty good. 

[Bigdog]

8 hours ago, Reagan said:

Curious:  Has this hindered any student from getting a quality education?  I believe the SAT scores are usually pretty good. 

The overcrowding doesn't help.  There are teachers using converted closets, the library and the cafeteria for class rooms.   Pretty much all of the schools are out of space.  Adding wings to the elementary schools and moving the 5th grade back down will help some, but there will be a need for additional space at the middle schools as well.

[Reagan]

156,000,000 MILLION DOLLARS for this bond.  Just keeping this massive figure in the forefront while it's being discussed! 

[The Icon]

10 hours ago, Reagan said:

156,000,000 MILLION DOLLARS for this bond.  Just keeping this massive figure in the forefront while it's being discussed! 

Roughly $30/month per $100K house

That’s not a killer amount to invest in the future of a community 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, The Icon said:

Roughly $30/month per $100K house

That’s not a killer amount to invest in the future of a community 

I guess you haven’t priced mid county real estate lately, but you can pretty much double that figure up to 200k. Taxes on commercial property (which is taxed higher) will go up, too. So unless you’re Section 8, your rent is gonna go up, too. But what’s an extra $100 here or there? All of the local businesses that you visit will be passing their increased costs on to you the consumer as well. 

I’d say the typical Nederlanderthal can expect his/her actual costs to run a little closer to $1500/year. 

The bug man on Spurlock? He’s paying higher taxes on his home, his business property, his business personal property, and all of his work trucks. His costs are for the new bond issue are probably going to be 25x what you’re predicting. The good news is that he can pass a lot of costs on to his customers. So your $50/bug treatment is now a $60 bug treatment. Same for every other local business that you visit.  You will pay more for every margarita, every tank of gasoline, and every grocery that you buy in town. 

So $30/month is by no means reflective of the true cost of the bond issue. 

[The Icon]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

I guess you haven’t priced mid county real estate lately, but you can pretty much double that figure up to 200k. Taxes on commercial property (which is taxed higher) will go up, too. So unless you’re Section 8, your rent is gonna go up, too. But what’s an extra $100 here or there? All of the local businesses that you visit will be passing their increased costs on to you the consumer as well. 

I’d say the typical Nederlanderthal can expect his/her actual costs to run a little closer to $1500/year. 

The bug man on Spurlock? He’s paying higher taxes on his home, his business property, his business personal property, and all of his work trucks. His costs are for the new bond issue are probably going to be 25x what you’re predicting. The good news is that he can pass a lot of costs on to his customers. So your $50/bug treatment is now a $60 bug treatment. Same for every other local business that you visit.  You will pay more for every margarita, every tank of gasoline, and every grocery that you buy in town. 

So $30/month is by no means reflective of the true cost of the bond issue. 

That was his choice to open a business - you assume the costs of running it. The good news is we have a free market economy, and are free to seek out other "bug men" for more affordable prices. I understand your point of view, and it is your right to speak out against it and vote it down. 

There are plenty of homeowners in Mid County living in homes that are worth considerably less than $200K. However, once again, I do see your point. I'm also a firm supporter of adequately equipping young people for the future. Good news is we live in a country that allows us to speak freely, assemble and vote. Mr. Mosley has said on multiple occasions for the citizens, both for and against a bond, to attend the school board meetings and other gatherings to voice their opinion, so a more informed and collective decision can be made. 

We'll see what happens in May.

[Reagan]

4 hours ago, The Icon said:

Roughly $30/month per $100K house

That’s not a killer amount to invest in the future of a community 

I know what the pro-bond people are trying to do.  This is not against you.  Just using your post as an example.  One can put pearls on a pig -- but it's still a pig.  They don't want to talk about about it in terms of 156,000,000 MILLION Dollars.  It's only X amount of dollars per month, they say.  Why not try to fool the public more by saying, well, it's only X amount of dollars per hour.  Makes the pig look even better.  But, again, it's still a pig!

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I guess you haven’t priced mid county real estate lately, but you can pretty much double that figure up to 200k. Taxes on commercial property (which is taxed higher) will go up, too. So unless you’re Section 8, your rent is gonna go up, too. But what’s an extra $100 here or there? All of the local businesses that you visit will be passing their increased costs on to you the consumer as well. 

I’d say the typical Nederlanderthal can expect his/her actual costs to run a little closer to $1500/year. 

The bug man on Spurlock? He’s paying higher taxes on his home, his business property, his business personal property, and all of his work trucks. His costs are for the new bond issue are probably going to be 25x what you’re predicting. The good news is that he can pass a lot of costs on to his customers. So your $50/bug treatment is now a $60 bug treatment. Same for every other local business that you visit.  You will pay more for every margarita, every tank of gasoline, and every grocery that you buy in town. 

So $30/month is by no means reflective of the true cost of the bond issue. 

Good post!  But let's not confuse those that are pushing this bond with facts.  When taxes are raised, and this is what this is, then everything is affected.  156,000,000 MILLION Dollars is a lot of money for which I'll say will not make much, if any, difference in a child's education.  Stadium improvements will not make athletes play any better.  If it did -- PNG would be State Champions every year.   But, I guess, it'll make them feels better about themselves.

[The Icon]

17 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Good post!  But let's not confuse those that are pushing this bond with facts.  When taxes are raised, and this is what this is, then everything is affected.  156,000,000 MILLION Dollars is a lot of money for which I'll say will not make much, if any, difference in a child's education.  Stadium improvements will not make athletes play any better.  If it did -- PNG would be State Champions every year.   But, I guess, it'll make them feels better about themselves.

I appreciate your willingness to discuss and debate this civilly.

I’m not even referencing the stadium upgrades - just the ones to the existing schools. I see the value in investing in STEM and CATE programs and the addition of sufficient classroom space so students are no longer in portable buildings.

[Bigdog]

27 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I know what the pro-bond people are trying to do.  This is not against you.  Just using your post as an example.  One can put pearls on a pig -- but it's still a pig.  They don't want to talk about about it in terms of 156,000,000 MILLION Dollars.  It's only X amount of dollars per month, they say.  Why not try to fool the public more by saying, well, it's only X amount of dollars per hour.  Makes the pig look even better.  But, again, it's still a pig!

Same thing that you are doing ignoring the fact that the monthly increase is small and will be spread out over multiple years.

[WOSdrummer99]

The children are the future. What better to spend the money on. At first I didn't agree with field upgrades at WOS. But the safety of the kids, both on and off the field, should be priority. I see where Nederland bond will have added security measures in place.

[CardinalBacker]

I think my problem is this... These bonds get so inflated... they become a "wish list" like most government projects.  

"It's only $30/month... small price for the kids, right?"  Cowboys Stadium had a total construction cost of 1.2 billion and I'm pretty sure you can see the thing from 15 miles away, if not outer space.  What is Nederland really getting for $156 milly?  I'm just saying that it's a vicious circle of administrators who want to build monuments to themselves, portions of the communities that lick their chops at the idea of getting into their better-off neighbors' pockets again, Designers and builders who are dealing with administrators who are usually not equipped to oversee the scope of this type of project, and ultimately a taxpaying population that is given a take-it-or-leave-it proposition.  

Beaumont ponied up 300 million for their bond issue and still have kids in portable buildings and if I'm not mistaken, need another one for the construction of the new B-Unit.  I mean... how important does that natatorium sound these days?

My guess is that IF a local business wanted to do a project of this scale, it would be done for a fraction of the cost that is being floated here. 

[Bigdog]

30 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

I think my problem is this... These bonds get so inflated... they become a "wish list" like most government projects.  

"It's only $30/month... small price for the kids, right?"  Cowboys Stadium had a total construction cost of 1.2 billion and I'm pretty sure you can see the thing from 15 miles away, if not outer space.  What is Nederland really getting for $156 milly?  I'm just saying that it's a vicious circle of administrators who want to build monuments to themselves, portions of the communities that lick their chops at the idea of getting into their better-off neighbors' pockets again, Designers and builders who are dealing with administrators who are usually not equipped to oversee the scope of this type of project, and ultimately a taxpaying population that is given a take-it-or-leave-it proposition.  

Beaumont ponied up 300 million for their bond issue and still have kids in portable buildings and if I'm not mistaken, need another one for the construction of the new B-Unit.  I mean... how important does that natatorium sound these days?

My guess is that IF a local business wanted to do a project of this scale, it would be done for a fraction of the cost that is being floated here. 

MMosely07 posted the list of upgrades, building a new high school that was poorly designed from the start is a lot different than building a brand new stadium with an administrator's name on it.    All of the upgrades and replacing the HS are needed.  The stadium is a separate proposition so it doesn't necessarily affect the school upgrade part of the bond.

[MMosley07]

2 hours ago, Reagan said:

I know what the pro-bond people are trying to do.  This is not against you.  Just using your post as an example.  One can put pearls on a pig -- but it's still a pig.  They don't want to talk about about it in terms of 156,000,000 MILLION Dollars.  It's only X amount of dollars per month, they say.  Why not try to fool the public more by saying, well, it's only X amount of dollars per hour.  Makes the pig look even better.  But, again, it's still a pig!

I don't think anyone is trying to bamboozle anyone. Most people just budget on a monthly basis. It is easier to explain and understand what $156,000,000 million dollars looks like from a tax impact basis and how it affects a residence or business tax burden if its clearly broken down. No one is out advocating for the bond saying its a $0.038/hr increase on a $100k appraised residence and I don't think anyone has tried to hide the amount of the proposed bond. The proposed projects and their budgeted amounts have been posted here, on social media, in the board minutes, discussed over 6 months at various C.A.C. meetings, a citizen survey completed both online and via phone, etc.

The whole process has been extremely transparent, open to the public (even if you didn't want to be a member), and led by the C.A.C.

Approximately $27.50 / month for a $100k house. = $330 annually

Approximately $55 / month for a $200k house. = $660 annually.

Approximately $82.50 / month for a $300k house. = $990 annually.

Approximately $110 / month for a $400k house. = $1320 annually.

Etc.

In regards to the pig comment, the Citizens Advisory Committee (C.A.C.) which was comprised of 80-100 members (both nominated and self-nominated), overwhelmingly supported "new" and not the type of bond passed in 2012.

Additionally, only the high school is proposed to be torn down. The improvements made at the other schools stay in place.

Disclaimer:
This is a personal account. Statements made on this account are not official statements of the Nederland ISD. The opinions shared on this account do not represent the views of the Nederland ISD or the Board of Trustees.

[Reagan]

11 hours ago, MMosley07 said:

I don't think anyone is trying to bamboozle anyone. Most people just budget on a monthly basis. It is easier to explain and understand what $156,000,000 million dollars looks like from a tax impact basis and how it affects a residence or business tax burden if its clearly broken down. No one is out advocating for the bond saying its a $0.038/hr increase on a $100k appraised residence and I don't think anyone has tried to hide the amount of the proposed bond. The proposed projects and their budgeted amounts have been posted here, on social media, in the board minutes, discussed over 6 months at various C.A.C. meetings, a citizen survey completed both online and via phone, etc.

The whole process has been extremely transparent, open to the public (even if you didn't want to be a member), and led by the C.A.C.

Approximately $27.50 / month for a $100k house. = $330 annually

Approximately $55 / month for a $200k house. = $660 annually.

Approximately $82.50 / month for a $300k house. = $990 annually.

Approximately $110 / month for a $400k house. = $1320 annually.

Etc.

In regards to the pig comment, the Citizens Advisory Committee (C.A.C.) which was comprised of 80-100 members (both nominated and self-nominated), overwhelmingly supported "new" and not the type of bond passed in 2012.

Additionally, only the high school is proposed to be torn down. The improvements made at the other schools stay in place.

Disclaimer:
This is a personal account. Statements made on this account are not official statements of the Nederland ISD. The opinions shared on this account do not represent the views of the Nederland ISD or the Board of Trustees.

I'll respond to the young Mr Mosley in due time.  But I'll use his post to bring up a few interesting points for discussion and possible enlightenment:  It is my understanding, not verified yet, that there is talk of people in Austin who are questioning why the NISD board let this huge bond (tax increase) of 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLARS move forward to the voters.  Plus -- it was also stated, according to many in the "government-know" in Austin, the repayment cannot be sustained in the tax base.  Also, the President of the board, Suzanne Isom, stated this in a "Meet The Candidate" article: “I’m proud of the kids and how they’ve scored on tests,” she said. “Their grades and knowledge have increased. We have a very good superintendent who pushes teachers. I’m proud of the school district as a whole.”  Very interesting statements in bold letters!  And, Mr Jerry Albanese, I know him.  A very good man.  But he's been awful quite on the bond issue.  I think I know why.  But that'll be discussed later.  But, I think a lot of people at this point do not understand the WHOLE implications to the community of a 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR bond (tax increase) in a town of around 17,000 people!  But, that's why we have civil discussions to enlighten the folks in the community.  So, based on what Suzanne Isom stated,  educationally speaking -- is this massive tax increase really necessary? 

[Bigdog]

11 hours ago, Reagan said:

I'll respond to the young Mr Mosley in due time.  But I'll use his post to bring up a few interesting points for discussion and possible enlightenment:  It is my understanding, not verified yet, that there is talk of people in Austin who are questioning why the NISD board let this huge bond (tax increase) of 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLARS move forward to the voters.  Plus -- it was also stated, according to many in the "government-know" in Austin, the repayment cannot be sustained in the tax base.  Also, the President of the board, Suzanne Isom, stated this in a "Meet The Candidate" article: “I’m proud of the kids and how they’ve scored on tests,” she said. “Their grades and knowledge have increased. We have a very good superintendent who pushes teachers. I’m proud of the school district as a whole.”  Very interesting statements in bold letters!  And, Mr Jerry Albanese, I know him.  A very good man.  But he's been awful quite on the bond issue.  I think I know why.  But that'll be discussed later.  But, I think a lot of people at this point do not understand the WHOLE implications to the community of a 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR bond (tax increase) in a town of around 17,000 people!  But, that's why we have civil discussions to enlighten the folks in the community.  So, based on what Suzanne Isom stated,  educationally speaking -- is this massive tax increase really necessary? 

Klein is that you?  Since you are quoting verbatim from his page.      No one in Austin is questioning it and they have been transparent on how they arrived at the numbers and what needs to be done.   You need to actually go into the schools and see the situation they are in before coming to conclusions.