Whatever you think of Trump

[UT alum]

5 minutes ago, stevenash said:

Belgium has one of the highest effective tax rates in the world.  That "system" has a 21% VAT tax.  Their system covers 98% of their population while the U.S. system covers 91% .  I would also guess that Belgium does not have, within their cost structure, the expense of covering a very large sum of non citizens getting coverage

The non citizen I noted got coverage. You think he was the only one? Why do many of our non-wealthy citizens go to Mexico or overseas for procedures? Ever hear of the phrase “medical tourism”? Paying 18% of GDP with annual cost increases of 8% or so is unsustainable.

[LumRaiderFan]

8 minutes ago, UT alum said:

Not the dude from Pennsylvania. Then again, he wasn’ wealthy. Offering my opinion on how the system could be improved is not downgrading America. How else can you justify a company selling the same part overseas for 1/10 the cost it charged here besides lack of competition? Competition is great. Our healthcare system demonstrates what happens in a”free” market without competition. Excessive cost with lower overall health outcomes. 

Maybe because of the ridiculous corporate tax rate, maybe because of the years and years of testing and tens of millions of dollars required to approve a product.  And once approved, if anything goes wrong the ambulance chasers swoop in and sue the heck out of a company requiring them to carry ridiculous liability insurance.

All things approved of by your party, who has a hatred for big pharma.

 

 

[mat]

I have hard time understanding how anyone can defend healthcare costs (unless you are on the financial receiving end) in this country or be happy with the cost for health care (unless you are receiving a heavy premium government supplement). I know Obamacare has contributed to many of the rising cost problems but the system was out of hand before Obamacare which is what brought Obamacare on. 

[stevenash]

17 minutes ago, UT alum said:

The non citizen I noted got coverage. You think he was the only one? Why do many of our non-wealthy citizens go to Mexico or overseas for procedures? Ever hear of the phrase “medical tourism”? Paying 18% of GDP with annual cost increases of 8% or so is unsustainable.

my point was that, in this country, we are taking care of considerably more than our own citizenry

[stevenash]

18 minutes ago, UT alum said:

The non citizen I noted got coverage. You think he was the only one? Why do many of our non-wealthy citizens go to Mexico or overseas for procedures? Ever hear of the phrase “medical tourism”? Paying 18% of GDP with annual cost increases of 8% or so is unsustainable.

Cost disparities are often hard to understand.  Since you seem to understand them, can you explain to me why a pair of Levis is priced 125% higher in Belgium than in the US?  Why is a bottle of water 59% higher in Belgium?  Why is a coke 78% higher?

[UT alum]

14 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Maybe because of the ridiculous corporate tax rate, maybe because of the years and years of testing and tens of millions of dollars required to approve a product.  And once approved, if anything goes wrong the ambulance chasers swoop in and sue the heck out of a company requiring them to carry ridiculous liability insurance.

All things approved of by your party, who has a hatred for big pharma.

 

 

Did you not see what I said about tort reform? And tell me what sense it makes that Medicare is prohibited from negotiating drug prices? How the heck is that competitive?

[stevenash]

11 minutes ago, mat said:

I have hard time understanding how anyone can defend healthcare costs (unless you are on the financial receiving end) in this country or be happy with the cost for health care (unless you are receiving a heavy premium government supplement). I know Obamacare has contributed to many of the rising cost problems but the system was out of hand before Obamacare which is what brought Obamacare on. 

I certainly am not defending the costs.  What I am questioning is how to deal with it.  The government doesn't run many things well and I am convinced they would not be particularly competent in the health care business as evidenced by the problems with the VA.  I am amazed that every time there is a problem in this country, we believe that a new law, regulation, or tax can solve it.  I can remember when gasoline got close to $4 per gallon and so many were calling for "something to be done about it".  It is in the low to mid $2 area now and the government did NOT play a part in the solution

[UT alum]

6 minutes ago, stevenash said:

Cost disparities are often hard to understand.  Since you seem to understand them, can you explain to me why a pair of Levis is priced 125% higher in Belgium than in the US?  Why is a bottle of water 59% higher in Belgium?  Why is a coke 78% higher?

I’d pay more for a coke if my healthcare costs were 40%+ lower.

[stevenash]

5 minutes ago, UT alum said:

I’d pay more for a coke if my healthcare costs were 40%+ lower.

Thanks very much for the non answer from the guy who cries for civilized reasonable debate.

[LumRaiderFan]

11 minutes ago, mat said:

I have hard time understanding how anyone can defend healthcare costs (unless you are on the financial receiving end) in this country or be happy with the cost for health care (unless you are receiving a heavy premium government supplement). I know Obamacare has contributed to many of the rising cost problems but the system was out of hand before Obamacare which is what brought Obamacare on. 

I disagree, mat, my insurance was affordable and I was pleased with my coverage.

There were millions like me with the same thoughts.

 

[UT alum]

5 minutes ago, stevenash said:

Thanks very much for the non answer from the guy who cries for civilized reasonable debate.

Could be their tariff policies. Two of the three products you mentioned are American made.

[LumRaiderFan]

9 minutes ago, UT alum said:

I’d pay more for a coke if my healthcare costs were 40%+ lower.

If you are paying higher taxes, how does that make your healthcare less?

[stevenash]

Yes, it might be.  I wonder what the revenues from those tariff policies are used for?  I wonder what the revenues from the 21% VAT tax are used for?   To me, its pretty simple.  You create a system( the way a country is operated) and try to stay within the boundaries of that system, knowing full well that there will be some characteristics you like and some that you don't like.  As I stated in another thread, when gasoline was double what it is right now, so many were crying about how "unfair" it was to the little guy( the standard grievance theme) and that government should "do something about it".   Sorry, but government was not able to do anything and the markets eventually resolved the issue.

[stevenash]

7 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

If you are paying higher taxes, how does that make your healthcare less?

Remember LumRaiderFan, the perception of the left is that the evil rich, the capitalistic pig, the guy who never has enough, ought to pay for everything.

[LumRaiderFan]

8 minutes ago, stevenash said:

Remember LumRaiderFan, the perception of the left is that the evil rich, the capitalistic pig, the guy who never has enough, ought to pay for everything.

Apparently, some think it is outrageous to pay a private company what we are paying for insurance, but more taxes to pay for worse insurance is acceptable.

It all boils down to many folks trust the fed gov more than the private sector.

[stevenash]

Ah yes, the benevolent, efficient, thrifty federal government is the solution to all issues.  Seems like Cuba and Venezuela found out that statement is somewhat less than  

veracious.

[UT alum]

1 hour ago, stevenash said:

Yes, it might be.  I wonder what the revenues from those tariff policies are used for?  I wonder what the revenues from the 21% VAT tax are used for?   To me, its pretty simple.  You create a system( the way a country is operated) and try to stay within the boundaries of that system, knowing full well that there will be some characteristics you like and some that you don't like.  As I stated in another thread, when gasoline was double what it is right now, so many were crying about how "unfair" it was to the little guy( the standard grievance theme) and that government should "do something about it".   Sorry, but government was not able to do anything and the markets eventually resolved the issue.

Healthcare is not a commodity, though the red state farmers who voted Trump seem not to mind government support prices for their commodities. 

[UT alum]

1 hour ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Apparently, some think it is outrageous to pay a private company what we are paying for insurance, but more taxes to pay for worse insurance is acceptable.

It all boils down to many folks trust the fed gov more than the private sector.

The private companies are operating like a cartel with endless dollars being thrown their way. Why can’t Medicare negotiate drug prices? That is anti-competitive. I don’t want to pay taxes for insurance. I want universal access to healthcare. How does a cost of 18% of GDP with unsustainable increases look like the market is resolving the issue?

[LumRaiderFan]

15 minutes ago, UT alum said:

Healthcare is not a commodity, though the red state farmers who voted Trump seem not to mind government support prices for their commodities. 

So it's only the Trump supporting red state farmers that receive support?

You don't hide your bias very well.

 

[LumRaiderFan]

13 minutes ago, UT alum said:

The private companies are operating like a cartel with endless dollars being thrown their way. Why can’t Medicare negotiate drug prices? That is anti-competitive. I don’t want to pay taxes for insurance. I want universal access to healthcare. How does a cost of 18% of GDP with unsustainable increases look like the market is resolving the issue?

The same folks that are causing this are the same folks you seem to think can fix the problem.

We made the mess...we can fix it.

[UT alum]

5 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

So it's only the Trump supporting red state farmers that receive support?

You don't hide your bias very well.

 

Look, Stevenash brought up commodities. It’s just odd to me how some people don’t want the government involved in their lives until they do. Just like tea partiers shouting don’t touch my Medicare.

[UT alum]

8 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

The same folks that are causing this are the same folks you seem to think can fix the problem.

We made the mess...we can fix it.

What does that mean?

[mat]

1 hour ago, LumRaiderFan said:

I disagree, mat, my insurance was affordable and I was pleased with my coverage.

There were millions like me with the same thoughts.

 

Maybe you could help me out by passing along some affordable insurance options because I haven't seen anything affordable out there. Assuming you are paying your full premium and not supplemented by your employer or the government and assuming you are not a young person and assuming you don't have more money than you know what to do with? Maybe the term affordable is subjective.

My employer pay a good portion of my insurance but my wife's is through the roof and the coverage is terrible. Fortunately we no longer have children to cover. 

[LumRaiderFan]

38 minutes ago, UT alum said:

Look, Stevenash brought up commodities. It’s just odd to me how some people don’t want the government involved in their lives until they do. Just like tea partiers shouting don’t touch my Medicare.

That’s right...don’t touch my medicare because I paid for it...forced to by the fed gov.

It’s not something the gov is doing you a favor by returning...it’s yours.

[LumRaiderFan]

40 minutes ago, mat said:

Maybe you could help me out by passing along some affordable insurance options because I haven't seen anything affordable out there. Assuming you are paying your full premium and not supplemented by your employer or the government and assuming you are not a young person and assuming you don't have more money than you know what to do with? Maybe the term affordable is subjective.

My employer pay a good portion of my insurance but my wife's is through the roof and the coverage is terrible. Fortunately we no longer have children to cover. 

The fix to me is for gov to move out of the way and allow businesses to expand and not be taxed to death.  Companies supplementing the employees insurance is what makes it affordable.  We can’t place unsustainable burdens on business such as a bogus minimum wage or cadillac health care plans and expect them to provide affordable healthcare.

Many of the same folks that complain about tax breaks for corporations expect them to continue providing endless services while paying such high taxes.

Let them keep the money...they can make it work for employees much better than the gov ever will.

One can dream, huh?