Orange County Coaching Records Since 1977!

[Reagan]

10 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

Too bad it took for you to answer the question that Reagan wouldn't.

Reagan's response not only doesn't bother to answer my question.  The suggestion that a team can bring home a state championship with mediocre players is laughable.

Actually I did!  What part don't you understand?  You stated that the reason WOS wins is because they have sent a few players to the NFL.  Then wanted to know how many the other Orange County schools have sent.  I explained i feel WOS would have won anyway.  Plus I said I didn't know how many the other schools sent.  But I went on to explain, with examples, that what you were saying about future NFL players didn't matter.  Again, I showed you examples that schools win State without future NFL players because of coaching.  Then I went on to say the PN-G squad that led the State in rushing, not many "mediocre" players there, stayed home.  It was because of coaching.  BTW -- what's laughable is saying the coach has nothing to do with it! 

[Reagan]

9 hours ago, LC-M said:

To my knowledge no one from LCM has played in the NFL. I think we had one that entered the draft this year but didn’t get picked up. I know we had kids go to D1 schools just never got passed that point. I think Reagan is trying to say a undersized athlete at the highschool level can be talented enough to win state championship but never have the size to make it the pros? I remember Lagrange had D1 running back Dobbins I believe. WOS defense was all over him and I think he got hurt in the 2n quarter. You can’t just have one stud and beat WOS. That’s why teams in our area have had trouble with WOS. 

Exactly!  As long as the kids are well coached. 

[Reagan]

Oh, I missed one from the area.  Louie Kelcher.  Played in the NFL and played for French.  I believe it was 1970-3.  During this time French did absolutely nothing because of coaching. 

[Reagan]

Here's a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Here is a coach that was the HC for 42 years.  Never participated in the Big Dance.  Can one reasonably say that during this 42 years that "no talent" ever passed through that school?   I would point at the coach as the reason they never went to the Big Dance.  Now, this brings up an interesting point that is prevalent locally.  I'm sure the coach at Buda is a fine guy and ran a respectable program.  But for him to stay that long the bar from the community and school board had to be set at a lower level than I would set it. 

BUDA HAYS  “REBELS”

YEAR               W-L-T      PTS-OPP        COACH

1968                 4-5-1        120-154         Bob Shelton
1969                 5-5-0        164-191         Bob Shelton
1970                 1-9-0          63-306         Bob Shelton
1971                 5-5-0        161-168         Bob Shelton
1972                 5-5-0        179-147         Bob Shelton
1973                 3-7-0        146-163         Bob Shelton
1974                 7-3-0        228-139         Bob Shelton
1975                 6-3-1        180-135         Bob Shelton
1976      C--     10-2-0        320-133         Bob Shelton
1977                 8-1-1        251-103         Bob Shelton
1978                 7-3-0        208-136         Bob Shelton
1979                 9-1-0        310-  60         Bob Shelton
1980                 6-4-0        178-153         Bob Shelton
1981                 4-6-0        120-152         Bob Shelton
1982      R         7-4-0        189-109         Bob Shelton
1983                 5-5-0        126-  96         Bob Shelton
1984                 1-9-0        136-266         Bob Shelton
1985                 3-7-0          87-150         Bob Shelton
1986                 5-5-0        226-160         Bob Shelton
1987                 7-3-0        234-128         Bob Shelton
1988      R         7-4-0        206-186         Bob Shelton
1989                 5-5-0        189-211         Bob Shelton
1990                 8-2-0        230-124         Bob Shelton
1991      R         8-3-0        249-144         Bob Shelton
1992      R--     10-3-0        356-195         Bob Shelton
1993                 8-2-0        278-112         Bob Shelton
1994      C--     12-2-0        415-232         Bob Shelton
1995                 5-5-0        159-188         Bob Shelton
1996      C--     13-1-0        495-216         Bob Shelton
1997     TH        7-5-0        313-186         Bob Shelton
1998      C--     10-2-0        388-214         Bob Shelton
1999      R         8-5-0        277-192         Bob Shelton
2000      R         8-3-0        269-124         Bob Shelton
2001                 6-4-0        319-231         Bob Shelton
2002                 5-5-0        279-187         Bob Shelton
2003      R         9-3-0        307-188         Bob Shelton
2004      R         8-3-0        318-200         Bob Shelton
2005      R--     10-2-0        532-297         Bob Shelton
2006      R--     10-4-0        388-223         Bob Shelton
2007                 6-4-0        306-277         Bob Shelton
2008      C         7-4-0        323-256         Bob Shelton
2009      R         4-7-0        277-292         Bob Shelton
2010     TH        6-5-0        308-297         Bob Shelton

 

 

 

 

[WOSgrad]

37 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Here's a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Here is a coach that was the HC for 42 years.  Never participated in the Big Dance.  Can one reasonably say that during this 42 years that "no talent" ever passed through that school?   I would point at the coach as the reason they never went to the Big Dance.  Now, this brings up an interesting point that is prevalent locally.  I'm sure the coach at Buda is a fine guy and ran a respectable program.  But for him to stay that long the bar from the community and school board had to be set at a lower level than I would set it. 

BUDA HAYS  “REBELS”

YEAR               W-L-T      PTS-OPP        COACH

1968                 4-5-1        120-154         Bob Shelton
1969                 5-5-0        164-191         Bob Shelton
1970                 1-9-0          63-306         Bob Shelton
1971                 5-5-0        161-168         Bob Shelton
1972                 5-5-0        179-147         Bob Shelton
1973                 3-7-0        146-163         Bob Shelton
1974                 7-3-0        228-139         Bob Shelton
1975                 6-3-1        180-135         Bob Shelton
1976      C--     10-2-0        320-133         Bob Shelton
1977                 8-1-1        251-103         Bob Shelton
1978                 7-3-0        208-136         Bob Shelton
1979                 9-1-0        310-  60         Bob Shelton
1980                 6-4-0        178-153         Bob Shelton
1981                 4-6-0        120-152         Bob Shelton
1982      R         7-4-0        189-109         Bob Shelton
1983                 5-5-0        126-  96         Bob Shelton
1984                 1-9-0        136-266         Bob Shelton
1985                 3-7-0          87-150         Bob Shelton
1986                 5-5-0        226-160         Bob Shelton
1987                 7-3-0        234-128         Bob Shelton
1988      R         7-4-0        206-186         Bob Shelton
1989                 5-5-0        189-211         Bob Shelton
1990                 8-2-0        230-124         Bob Shelton
1991      R         8-3-0        249-144         Bob Shelton
1992      R--     10-3-0        356-195         Bob Shelton
1993                 8-2-0        278-112         Bob Shelton
1994      C--     12-2-0        415-232         Bob Shelton
1995                 5-5-0        159-188         Bob Shelton
1996      C--     13-1-0        495-216         Bob Shelton
1997     TH        7-5-0        313-186         Bob Shelton
1998      C--     10-2-0        388-214         Bob Shelton
1999      R         8-5-0        277-192         Bob Shelton
2000      R         8-3-0        269-124         Bob Shelton
2001                 6-4-0        319-231         Bob Shelton
2002                 5-5-0        279-187         Bob Shelton
2003      R         9-3-0        307-188         Bob Shelton
2004      R         8-3-0        318-200         Bob Shelton
2005      R--     10-2-0        532-297         Bob Shelton
2006      R--     10-4-0        388-223         Bob Shelton
2007                 6-4-0        306-277         Bob Shelton
2008      C         7-4-0        323-256         Bob Shelton
2009      R         4-7-0        277-292         Bob Shelton
2010     TH        6-5-0        308-297         Bob Shelton

 

 

 

 

I'm quite sure that he had some talent that went through Hays High as he led the Rebels to 18 playoff appearances and 5 district titles, just not enough to make a deep run.

BTW, trying to make a point and answering a question are two different things.

On this thread you now have 2 questions you haven't answered.

[Reagan]

21 hours ago, Reagan said:

The players you stated are excellent players, no doubt.  But, without being able to prove it, I have no doubt that any games these aforementioned players played in, WOS would have won with or without these players due to the coaching at WOS.  As for the any players that went to the NFL from the other Orange County schools, as you will see, it really doesn't matter when trying to win a State Championship.  Now, I’m sure there’s a possibility that the PN-G QB will play in the NFL.  He was one of the best, if not the best QB in the State. That didn’t help PN-G.  Jamaal Charles played in the NFL and it didn’t help Port Arthur.   Joe Washington and Bobby Leopold played in the NFL and it didn’t help Lincoln.  Cotton Speyrer played in the NFL and that didn’t help TJ.  Now, let’s look on the other side of the coin.  Look at Liberty Hill this year, I guess it’s possible, but I doubt there’ll be any NFL players coming from that bunch.  They won State because they were well coached.  Now, a little earlier:  PN-G, 1975, coached by Doug Ethridge, won the State Championship with no NFL players (none I can recall).  The next year PN-G played in the State Championship game again with no NFL players.  The previous state champion from PN-G was in 1955.  So, it took 20 years for another one.  Now, this went through the 60’s.  What – no talent in the 60’s?  Well, let’s see.  They had Greg Davis, Wade Phillips, Tommy Landry and Mike Simpson -- who did play in the NFL.  But nothing happened during the 60’s of any consequence.  Let’s move into the 70’s.  1971, 72, and 73, PN-G had a RB by the name of Jeff “The Jet” Bergeron.  In 1972 and 73, he was one of the best, if not the best, RB in the State of Texas.  In 1972, PN-G led the State in rushing.  Nothing – they stayed home.  3 years later, Doug Ethridge was making a strong push to the State Championship.  4 years later PN-G won the State Championship.  Previous to this, Ethridge won a State Championship at Hobbs, NM.  Don’t know for a fact, but I also doubt there were any players that made it to the NFL from that team.  So, the point is:  although it doesn’t hurt, having these quality players you talked about isn’t totally necessary to get to Big Dance.  But good coaching sure is!

The below is your original statement:

"Greg Hill, Ernest Anderson, Kevin Smith, Chris Cole, Earl Thomas and now Deionte Thompson in the NFL along with Deon Beasley and Mark Roberts in the CFL. (The players you stated are excellent players, no doubt.)  Then I explained that it didn't matter to the WOS program if these people played or not!

Tell me, Reagan, has any other program, since 1977, had as many players go on to play professional football?"   (As for the any players that went to the NFL from the other Orange County schools, as you will see, it really doesn't matter when trying to win a State Championship.)  I should have added that I wasn't sure.  As you can tell by the response that I moved on pass that because it doesn't matter if there was any NFL players from these other schools, since it has to do with coaching.  Then I went on to categorically dispel the theory you were trying to convey. 

 

[Reagan]

49 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

I'm quite sure that he had some talent that went through Hays High as he led the Rebels to 18 playoff appearances and 5 district titles, just not enough to make a deep run.

BTW, trying to make a point and answering a question are two different things.

On this thread you now have 2 questions you haven't answered.

It, again, boils down to were the bar is set.  Mine may be a little higher than most.  My list of "elite" coaches is small. 

[WOSgrad]

48 minutes ago, Reagan said:

It, again, boils down to were the bar is set.  Mine may be a little higher than most.  My list of "elite" coaches is small. 

1 hour ago, WOSgrad said:

I'm quite sure that he had some talent that went through Hays High as he led the Rebels to 18 playoff appearances and 5 district titles, just not enough to make a deep run.

BTW, trying to make a point and answering a question are two different things.

On this thread you now have 2 questions you haven't answered.

Well, you know, I find it curious that you stopped in presenting Buda Hays season records in 2010.  Did they do any better with subsequent coaches, here is the answer.

2011 - 8-4 - Blake Feldt

2012 - 10-2  - Blake Feldt

2013 - 9-3 - Neal La Hue

2014 - 4-6 - Neal La Hue

2015 - 5-5 - Neal La Hue

2016 - 3-7 - Neal La Hue

2017 - 4-7 - Neal La Hue

2018 - 8-3 - Les Goad

3 coaches who did no better than Coach Shelton

Notes on a few of these coaches:

Ector County ISD held the bar so low that they hired Feldt, who came to Hays from Pilot Point where he led them to the Class 2A, Division I State Championship in 2009, away from Hays to coach Odessa Permian.

La Hue is currently the offensive coordinator at Texas Lutheran University.

Goad, when he took the job in 2018, was just 2 years off of leading Navarro to a Class 4A Division II State Semifinal game.

BTW, don't expect Hays to improve their records any in the near future as since 2014, they have been in the same district as Austin Westlake and Lake Travis currently reside in the same district as they do.

So how did dispel my theory again? OH! You mean the PN-G example?  Do you know what Ethridge's record after his 4 year run to the semis, finals and one championship?

1978 - 6-4, home for the playoffs

1979 - 4-5-1, home for the playoffs

1980 - 7-3, home from the playoffs

1981 - 3-7, home from the playoffs

1982 - 4-6, home for the playoffs

1983 - 6-3-1, home for the playoffs

Ethridge's record from '78 to '83 when retired was 30-26-1.  Not really what I would call elite.  What?  Did the 1977 finals loss to Permian knock the coaching ability out of him? OF COURSE NOT!  He will still the same coach who lead the Indians to 4 semis, 2 finals and 1 championship from 1974-1978.  Then what is the answer?

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, WOSgrad said:

Well, you know, I find it curious that you stopped in presenting Buda Hays season records in 2010.  Did they do any better with subsequent coaches, here is the answer.

2011 - 8-4 - Blake Feldt

2012 - 10-2  - Blake Feldt

2013 - 9-3 - Neal La Hue

2014 - 4-6 - Neal La Hue

2015 - 5-5 - Neal La Hue

2016 - 3-7 - Neal La Hue

2017 - 4-7 - Neal La Hue

2018 - 8-3 - Les Goad

3 coaches who did no better than Coach Shelton

Notes on a few of these coaches:

Ector County ISD held the bar so low that they hired Feldt, who came to Hays from Pilot Point where he led them to the Class 2A, Division I State Championship in 2009, away from Hays to coach Odessa Permian.

La Hue is currently the offensive coordinator at Texas Lutheran University.

Goad, when he took the job in 2018, was just 2 years off of leading Navarro to a Class 4A Division II State Semifinal game.

BTW, don't expect Hays to improve their records any in the near future as since 2014, they have been in the same district as Austin Westlake and Lake Travis currently reside in the same district as they do.

So how did dispel my theory again?

And your point is?  It actually proves my point.  I'm sure there was talent that came through under these coaches also.  Feldt got into the bigger classifications and couldn't hang with the big dogs.  I would imagine that if he was an "elite" coach, he would have at least participated in the Big Dance at Permian.  Did he?   Anyway, I just used Buda, for no other reason, was because of the 42 years.  If one can't get to the Big Dance in 42 years -- I would venture to say that it wasn't because of the talent.  This is what dispels the theory teams can only win Championships with talent.  You know, NFL-type talent. 

Another example to prove my point:  Back in 1975, again, a team coached by Doug Ethridge, PN-G played a far superior team in the Houston Kashmere Rams. Kashmere was physically bigger and had more speed.  Given Kashmere's talent -- there was no way that PN-G should have won that game.  But, you know what, they did!  They beat Kashmere because they were better coached!!  Proving again that a well coached team will usually win over a more talented team.

[WOSgrad]

8 minutes ago, Reagan said:

And your point is?  It actually proves my point.  I'm sure there was talent that came through under these coaches also.  Feldt got into the bigger classifications and couldn't hang with the big dogs.  I would imagine that if he was an "elite" coach, he would have at least participated in the Big Dance at Permian.  Did he?   Anyway, I just used Buda, for no other reason, was because of the 42 years.  If one can't get to the Big Dance in 42 years -- I would venture to say that it wasn't because of the talent.  This is what dispels the theory teams can only win Championships with talent.  You know, NFL-type talent. 

Another example to prove my point:  Back in 1975, again, a team coached by Doug Ethridge, PN-G played a far superior team in the Houston Kashmere Rams. Kashmere was physically bigger and had more speed.  Given Kashmere's talent -- there was no way that PN-G should have won that game.  But, you know what, they did!  They beat Kashmere because they were better coached!!

Do you know what Ethridge's record after his 4 year run to the semis, finals and one championship?

1978 - 6-4, home for the playoffs

1979 - 4-5-1, home for the playoffs

1980 - 7-3, home from the playoffs

1981 - 3-7, home from the playoffs

1982 - 4-6, home for the playoffs

1983 - 6-3-1, home for the playoffs

Ethridge's record from '78 to '83 when retired was 30-26-1.  Not really what I would call elite.  What?  Did the 1977 finals loss to Permian knock the coaching ability out of him? OF COURSE NOT!  He is still the same coach who lead the Indians to 4 semis, 2 finals and 1 championship from 1974-1978.  Then what is the answer?

[Reagan]

5 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

Do you know what Ethridge's record after his 4 year run to the semis, finals and one championship?

1978 - 6-4, home for the playoffs

1979 - 4-5-1, home for the playoffs

1980 - 7-3, home from the playoffs

1981 - 3-7, home from the playoffs

1982 - 4-6, home for the playoffs

1983 - 6-3-1, home for the playoffs

Ethridge's record from '78 to '83 when retired was 30-26-1.  Not really what I would call elite.  What?  Did the 1977 finals loss to Permian knock the coaching ability out of him? OF COURSE NOT!  He is still the same coach who lead the Indians to 4 semis, 2 finals and 1 championship from 1974-1978.  Then what is the answer?

Ethridge is on my elite coaching list because of 2 State Championships and another appearance in one.  I know what his records were.  He's still in the elite category. 

[WOSgrad]

10 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Ethridge is on my elite coaching list because of 2 State Championships and another appearance in one.  I know what his records were.  He's still in the elite category. 

Not sure you got that right.  One state championship (1975), two finals appearances (1975, 1977), two semi appearances (1974, 1976).

[WOSgrad]

23 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Ethridge is on my elite coaching list because of 2 State Championships and another appearance in one.  I know what his records were.  He's still in the elite category. 

I agree he was an elite coach.  But why is it that an elite coach could not avoid 3 losing seasons and a was able to muster only a .535 record in his final six years as coach.  It is the same elite coach that led PN-G to that 4 year run from '74-'77?

Again, what is the answer?

[Reagan]

18 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

I agree he was an elite coach.  But why is it that an elite coach could not avoid 3 losing seasons and a was able to muster only a .535 record in his final six years as coach.  It is the same elite coach that led PN-G to that 4 year run from '74-'77?

Again, what is the answer?

Because nothing is guaranteed.  There could have been many factors involved.  His actual accomplishments is the reason he's on my elite list.  My elite list is not based on records.  Because records can be deceiving.  It's based on State Championships won.  At least 2.  I really don't know what Art Briles record is.  I do know he won 4 State Championships.  Now, this one will surprise you:  Phil Danaher, at Calallen, has a killer record and is a good coach.  But, no State appearances yet.  So he's not on my short list of elite coaches. 

[1989NDN]

It takes talent to win.  PN-G had elite coaching and talented kids during the 1974-1977 run.  Matt Burnett, Wilson Weber, Kyle Aguillard, Richy Ethridge, Ted Brack, Justin Eicher, and Robert DeRutte all played DI college football.  The coaching staff during that four year run was outstanding:  Doug Ethridge, Ken Clearman, Butch Troy, Greg Davis, Tim Nunez, Bruce Bush, Terry Cobb, Jerry Hooper, et al.  The Indians had talented kids with some size.  TE Kyle Aguillard was 6'6" 220 lbs, LB Ted Brack was 6' 2" and 215 lbs., RB Justin Eicher was 6' 2" and 200+ lbs., and FS Robert DeRutte was 6'6" and 200 lbs.  It did not hurt having Richy Ethridge at QB.  He was a coach on the field and he could play.  He had size and skills.  He earned his stripes to lead PN-G in 1975 and 1976.  The coaching staff had great schemes, they motivated talented kids to play well, and the results were good times for PN-G.  Post-1978, there was a drop in talent, school consolidation in other areas of SETX led to growth and good new teams, growth in Houston area suburbs, and good coaches left PN-G for new opportunities, e.g., Bruce Bush, Greg Davis, and Tim Nunez.  PN-G is land locked.  Not much room for growth.  The work forces at local refineries have shrunk.  All of that and the talent pool becomes cyclical.  Some teams will have some talented kids, others will not.

Coach Ethridge had a similar run of success in New Mexico before he moved to SETX.  He won a state title in New Mexico and one at PN-G.  I know that some old PN-G fans argue that Ethridge would have won big at PN-G in the early seventies with Jeff Bergeron at TB, but I think Joe Washington, Kenny Washington, Little Joe Washington, and the Lincoln Bumblebees would disagree.

It takes talent and coaching to win hardware.  You need both.

Go Indians.  Peace.

[WOSgrad]

49 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Because nothing is guaranteed.  There could have been many factors involved.  His actual accomplishments is the reason he's on my elite list.  My elite list is not based on records.  Because records can be deceiving.  It's based on State Championships won.  At least 2.  I really don't know what Art Briles record is.  I do know he won 4 State Championships.  Now, this one will surprise you:  Phil Danaher, at Calallen, has a killer record and is a good coach.  But, no State appearances yet.  So he's not on my short list of elite coaches. 

Wait a moment!  There are other factors aside from coaching, that a coach can't avoid losing seasons in half of the seasons that he coached after a magical run?

And then a coach with 7 state semifinals appearances and, yes, a state championship appearance in 2005, 16 straight seasons of 10 or more victories (1988-2004) doesn't make your list?  A don't consider that too bad considering the program he took over hadn't been in the playoffs the previous 28 years.  In fact, I would consider that elite coaching.  I think Danaher provides a better example for your argument.

[WOSgrad]

16 minutes ago, 1989NDN said:

It takes talent and coaching to win hardware.  You need both.

Couldn't agree more.

[Tiger33]

15 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

57 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Because nothing is guaranteed.  There could have been many factors involved.  His actual accomplishments is the reason he's on my elite list.  My elite list is not based on records.  Because records can be deceiving.  It's based on State Championships won.  At least 2.  I really don't know what Art Briles record is.  I do know he won 4 State Championships.  Now, this one will surprise you:  Phil Danaher, at Calallen, has a killer record and is a good coach.  But, no State appearances yet.  So he's not on my short list of elite coaches. 

Phil just played Aledo a few years ago in Dallas. I was there it was a good game.

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

Wait a moment!  There are other factors aside from coaching, that a coach can't avoid losing seasons in half of the seasons that he coached after a magical run?

And then a coach with 7 state semifinals appearances and, yes, a state championship appearance in 2005, 16 straight seasons of 10 or more victories (1988-2004) doesn't make your list?  A don't consider that too bad considering the program he took over hadn't been in the playoffs the previous 28 years.  In fact, I would consider that elite coaching.  I think Danaher provides a better example for your argument.

With Ethridge it was not just his run at PN-G.  Remember, he had a State Title prior.  Yes, there are circumstances that happen.  But, as Cornel found out in his last State appearance, somebody gonna win and somebody's gonna lose.  But he was there!   Now, for mediocre coaches these "circumstances"  tend to happen every year.  These are the coaches that blame the lack talent for their failings.  Actually, they personally won't:  Their sympathizers will. 

No, Danaher doesn't make my list.  Like i said, the bar is high and list is short.  trust me, the list is impressive.  But on the other hand, I wouldn't be disappointed if he coached my team.  Like i said, he is good.

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, 1989NDN said:

It takes talent to win.  PN-G had elite coaching and talented kids during the 1974-1977 run.  Matt Burnett, Wilson Weber, Kyle Aguillard, Richy Ethridge, Ted Brack, Justin Eicher, and Robert DeRutte all played DI college football.  The coaching staff during that four year run was outstanding:  Doug Ethridge, Ken Clearman, Butch Troy, Greg Davis, Tim Nunez, Bruce Bush, Terry Cobb, Jerry Hooper, et al.  The Indians had talented kids with some size.  TE Kyle Aguillard was 6'6" 220 lbs, LB Ted Brack was 6' 2" and 215 lbs., RB Justin Eicher was 6' 2" and 200+ lbs., and FS Robert DeRutte was 6'6" and 200 lbs.  It did not hurt having Richy Ethridge at QB.  He was a coach on the field and he could play.  He had size and skills.  He earned his stripes to lead PN-G in 1975 and 1976.  The coaching staff had great schemes, they motivated talented kids to play well, and the results were good times for PN-G.  Post-1978, there was a drop in talent, school consolidation in other areas of SETX led to growth and good new teams, growth in Houston area suburbs, and good coaches left PN-G for new opportunities, e.g., Bruce Bush, Greg Davis, and Tim Nunez.  PN-G is land locked.  Not much room for growth.  The work forces at local refineries have shrunk.  All of that and the talent pool becomes cyclical.  Some teams will have some talented kids, others will not.

Coach Ethridge had a similar run of success in New Mexico before he moved to SETX.  He won a state title in New Mexico and one at PN-G.  I know that some old PN-G fans argue that Ethridge would have won big at PN-G in the early seventies with Jeff Bergeron at TB, but I think Joe Washington, Kenny Washington, Little Joe Washington, and the Lincoln Bumblebees would disagree.

It takes talent and coaching to win hardware.  You need both.

Go Indians.  Peace.

Ethridge was the nucleus of everything you have stated.  PN-G played more talented teams.  Again -- remember Kashmere.  Permian was talented also.  Yes, these were good players.  Ethridge got these player to play above their potential.  As you have stated, PN-G had talent in Bergeron and sat home.  It would have been real interesting to see what Ethridge could have done having Bergeron for 3 years.  Trust me, I know about the Lincoln situation.  I think Ethridge, with Bergeron, could have taken care of Lincoln   for one simple fact:  Ethridge would have out-coached Joe Sr.  Which he actually did later on.   PN-G actually had more talent than just Bergeron.  So, yes, I personally think Ethridge would have won 1, maybe 2 State Titles with Bergeron.   Now, as for as the staff.  You are correct, they were great.  But that's part of being an elite coach.  It was Ethridge who assembled that staff.  During that time frame, there is no one who could have done with PN-G what Ethridge did, in my opinion.  Now, don't get me wrong.  Talent doesn't hurt.  But -- if the coaching is not there the talent won't help.  Talent didn't seem to help PN-G this year, did it?  Would an Art Briles have made a difference with the QB PN-G had this past 2 years.  I would say he would have made a strong push for the Title.  But, unfortunately for the Injuns, you'll never know! 

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

Couldn't agree more.

WOS, I like these conversations.  Because like i said before: a one-sided conversation goes nowhere fast and is boring!