Astros vs. Mets

[KFDM COOP]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4947181.html

[WHFAN]

Great game for Wandy

[KFDM COOP]

Astros win game 2 4-0.

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Game 3 tied in the 12th.

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Still tied in the 15th!!!!

[lonestar]

Astros lose 5-3 in 17.

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> > >

[Morgan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!ASTROS LOSE!!!!!!!!!!

[Gabe]

Ill be there on Sunday. First time for me to ever see Oswalt pitch!

[KFDM COOP]

Maybe they'll win!! 

[bobcatfan]

I was at the astros game last night that went 17 innings.  I stayed there for the whole game.  We moved down to a couple times from the upper deck and ended up sitting right behind the astros dugout for like half the game.  I asked Jose Cruz if Wandy spoke english and he said yes.  Morgan Ensberg threw me a piece of gum in  extra innings.  Carlos Beltran made one of the best catches on the hill i've ever seen.  I took lots of pics of the game and glad i did.  I go to 6-10 games a year but i'd have to say this was one of the more was more memorable games for us.   

I'm not in any of these pics, those 2 guys are my brother and friend.

[KFDM COOP]

Nice PICS!

[KFDM COOP]

Stros win Sunday!!!

[Gabe]

Hunter Pence is amazing, hopefully Ensbergs good day continues something and maybe we can build on next year. Sorry guys, they cant make up 10 games in the wild card with 10 teams in front of them. Just being a realist!

And by the way, I cheered everytime the people around booed Beltran, even during the home run. I just dont blame the guy for taking a better gig.

[bobcatfan]

Gabe, what are you talking about with Beltran??? I totally disagree with you on Beltran.  What do you mean by a better gig??  More money or better team, do you mean one of those?  Let me break it down for you why me and all Houston fans boo Beltran and maybe you will too.  Since you dont remember or didnt pay close enough attention to what happened back then i will go over it again for you.  Ok, after the 04' playoffs, everyone in Houston wanted Beltran to stay here and he played so well here we thought if we gave him a good deal he'd take it.  Reason being, he was successful here, he said he liked it in Houston, there were reports saying he wanted to be in a city that didnt have a big spotlight like Houston, and also Houston has a big hispanic population which he liked also.  So we as Houston fans thought if Drayton could offer a competitive deal that Beltran would take that deal and stay in Houston.  Beltran's agent was Scott Boras and he is a big jerk, i could say a lot more about him but i couldnt write it on this board.  After weeks of negotiations between the Mets and Astros, Beltran ended up signing a deal with the Mets. He signed a deal with the mets for 7 years 119 million, the astros offered 7 years 108 million.  I'm sure you're saying, see more money, BUT, New York has a 12% state tax, Texas has no state tax so the money is practically identical, and Beltran and his agent knew this because a big deal was made about it while negotations were going on.  So essentially, New York and Houston were offering the same money but Beltran took the deal in New York.  In the end, it was a believed that Boras USED Houston all along to get Beltran the most money.  Thats a hard pill to swallow for Houston fans when Beltran had said he liked it in Houston and would like to play there.  It is also believed that Boras probably took the New York deal because even though the money is the same for Beltran, Boras makes more money in commission.  The astros had been to the playoffs in 01' and 04' (and the eventual world series in 05') and made 2nd place in 02' and 03' so they had been very competitive and with Beltran and Berkman in the lineup would be set for years.  The mets had come in last and next to last in the NL East the last 2 years so this deal seemed to all fans like it was all about money.  So was New York really a better gig for Beltran when he signed the deal???? The money was the same for Beltran and Houston had a better track record recently.  So in conclusion why should you boo Beltran? Because he lied to the houston fans and in the end came across very disingenuous in his intentions to actually sign with the club, it was all about the money for Beltran and his ruthless agent.  I guess i'm still left wondering why the heck you or anyone would actually cheer for this guy. 

[Guest astrosfan75956]

beeninnikes, couldnt agree more... great post!

[Gabe]

Because I dont hold it against him for doing what he thought was best for him. How can I judge him for doing what he thought was best? Now Boras the agent I agree is a jerk, who cant say that besides his players? I am first a baseball fan and Beltran is a great baseball player all the way around. If I didn't like players who left teams after just two years and didnt like players who went somewhere because of the money, I would only like about two players in the MLB. I choose to like players the most who are all around baseball players like Beltran, like Jeter, Pujols and A-Rod. If the owners are going to give them money, why hold it against the players? To me New York is a better gig. It is New York City for one. If he said he didn't want to play in a big city, shouldnt Houston have been ruled out too? He should have stayed in Kansas City if that was the case. New York is a big stage, they are in the running for their second NL East title in a row and they have a great corp of players. We are not in his head. He might have seen the young guys there and wanted to be a part of it. Houstons track record is and always has been to yes have some success but make dumb decisions down the road. He is not the first player to leave town. I will never feel bad for cheering for a player who gives his best every game and is one of the game's brightest stars. That is what being a baseball fan is to me.

[WHBaseball14]

Gabe, what are you talking about with Beltran??? I totally disagree with you on Beltran.  What do you mean by a better gig??  More money or better team, do you mean one of those?  Let me break it down for you why me and all Houston fans boo Beltran and maybe you will too.  Since you dont remember or didnt pay close enough attention to what happened back then i will go over it again for you.  Ok, after the 04' playoffs, everyone in Houston wanted Beltran to stay here and he played so well here we thought if we gave him a good deal he'd take it.   Reason being, he was successful here, he said he liked it in Houston, there were reports saying he wanted to be in a city that didnt have a big spotlight like Houston, and also Houston has a big hispanic population which he liked also.  So we as Houston fans thought if Drayton could offer a competitive deal that Beltran would take that deal and stay in Houston.  Beltran's agent was Scott Boras and he is a big jerk, i could say a lot more about him but i couldnt write it on this board.  After weeks of negotiations between the Mets and Astros, Beltran ended up signing a deal with the Mets. He signed a deal with the mets for 7 years 119 million, the astros offered 7 years 108 million.  I'm sure you're saying, see more money, BUT, New York has a 12% state tax, Texas has no state tax so the money is practically identical, and Beltran and his agent knew this because a big deal was made about it while negotations were going on.  So essentially, New York and Houston were offering the same money but Beltran took the deal in New York.  In the end, it was a believed that Boras USED Houston all along to get Beltran the most money.  Thats a hard pill to swallow for Houston fans when Beltran had said he liked it in Houston and would like to play there.  It is also believed that Boras probably took the New York deal because even though the money is the same for Beltran, Boras makes more money in commission.  The astros had been to the playoffs in 01' and 04' (and the eventual world series in 05') and made 2nd place in 02' and 03' so they had been very competitive and with Beltran and Berkman in the lineup would be set for years.   The mets had come in last and next to last in the NL East the last 2 years so this deal seemed to all fans like it was all about money.  So was New York really a better gig for Beltran when he signed the deal???? The money was the same for Beltran and Houston had a better track record recently.  So in conclusion why should you boo Beltran? Because he lied to the houston fans and in the end came across very disingenuous in his intentions to actually sign with the club, it was all about the money for Beltran and his ruthless agent.  I guess i'm still left wondering why the heck you or anyone would actually cheer for this guy. 

exactly thats why we all boo him!!

[bobcatfan]

  Gabe, i still dont think you fully understand what i'm saying here, partly because you never addressed my main point of why 95% of fans in houston boo beltran.  Yes, i agree in part that you can't fault a player for taking more money to go elsewhere. I realize that many of us would take the most money if put in the same position.  Although its great to see players stay with their hometown, i think thats why people like the astros so much because they have a hometown feel with players like Biggio, Bagwell, Berkman, and Oswalt that you feel will be there for their career.  The first issue i take with what you said is making a blanket statement that New York is a better gig.  Not every player wants to play in New York.  Look at Vlad Guerrero, i'm pretty sure he couldve made more than his 6 year 72 million dollar contract he signed with the Angels (that looks like a relative bargain now) if he wanted to play in New York but he chose not to, and he's not the only one.  I think you have to agree that New York, while it has its benefits, comes with its negatives too, its not all great.  New York has many positives like more money, more endorsements, bigger spotlight, more exposure.  But with that comes the negatives like: 10x times the media coverage, more pressure to win from fans/management, and high and sometimes unrealistic expectations to perform always which leads to being highly criticized and scrutized for your every move.  Beltran experienced that in his first year with the Mets when he had injury problems and was performing well below his career averages, and lead to him being booed on his home field.  I dont think that would ever happen to him in Houston.  I'm sure guys like Oswalt and Berkman will tell you Houston is a better gig because they dont have near the media coverage/scrutiny, the fans here are more laid back, and yet its still a winning organization with a good track record. 

  But my main point that i dont think you fully understand or just tended to ignore was what Beltran and his agent did to Houston in the negotiating process.  I explained this in my earlier post, but i'll phrase it differently for you.  Basically, Beltran and his agent USED Houston as leverage to get a big deal done for Beltran.  If New York was the only team bidding on Beltran without Houston he wouldve only gotten maybe 2/3 of that money.  But we did get involved which helped Beltran get paid a lot more.  Heres the part you need to understand Gabe, not only are fans mad about Beltran and his agent USING Houston to get a better deal, but he signed a contract with New York that was worth the SAME AMOUNT as what he wouldve made in Houston.  So basically he LIED to Houston fans saying he would like to be in Houston, if he really did, he wouldve signed with us since he was getting paid the same.  That just shows he really didnt have intentions on signing with us (even though he said he did), he just wanted to use us to get a larger paycheck, which really got under everyones skin. 

  I understand your point that you're a baseball fan and you like to see the best players play.  I'm as big a baseball fan as anyone, i would always go to see the expos when Vlad played, and i always go to a Giants game every year to see Bonds, and i like to go to watch the astros play the good teams like the Mets, Cubs, Cards.  I go to around 10 games a year.  I was at the 17 inning game saturday and was amazed to see Beltran make that catch on the hill.  I like to see the best players play too.  But that doesnt mean as a baseball fan i have to like every player in the league.  I like most players but i have no problems booing Beltran.  He deserves to be booed in Houston and if you want to be in the very small minority of Astros fans who cheer beltran thats your choice if you want to cheer a guy who used you, lied to you and deceived you as an astros fan.....