Make The Call

[ESPN]

Make the call

Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1st pitch to the next batter is insideand becomes a wild pitch that goes to the backstop. Silently, as if it were a delayed call, the plate umpire raises his hands. The runners advanced unchallenged, to 2nd and 3rd. After a moment the umpire comes out behind home plate and announces as he walks toward the 3rd base coach, in a voice that all could hear, "you are not going to like this coach" He proceeded to tell the coach that he had anticipated the ball hitting the batter (which it did not) but in retrospect he knew that it did not. His action had no effect on the play (and thank goodness, none on the game). The catcher went to retreive the ball and made no throw, he had chased the ball without regard to the umpires action. The pitch was a ball and the count remained 1 Ball and 0 Strikes

Question: in making the wrong call and than making the runners return to 1st and 2nd, was an unfair advantage given to the defensive team or since there was no apparent effect on the play or the catcher; or should the 'anticipated call' by the umpire be considered incidental and the play stand?

[3ABirdMan]

It's kinda like the whistle in a ref's mouth at a football game - Once the play is whistled dead, correct or incorrect, the play or ball is dead. Same way with this call. Once the Ump raised his hands, the play is dead - right, wrong, or indifferent.

my $.02 worth..........

[bigred75]

Yeah if he raised his hands before the catcher left out his position to retrieve the ball then yeah the play stands. Kind of like Birdman says........dead ball. However if he called the ball hitting the player even if it did not........shouldn't the player be awarded first base???? I mean that was his call right.............. :scratch

[Bobcat55]

Let me guess what chapter these baseball guru's were from? Is it just me or has the baseball officials been less than diserable this year?

[hfaninthestands]

I have no idea

I was never good at hypotheticals....maybe because of my wife....

but, this was the secret to my success... vegas doesnt' even give this good of odds

[baseballer17]

i agree if he called dead ball that it hit the batter the batter should get to go to first anyway

[ESPN]

You would think so.

[whsalum]

I agree with bigred75,you cant have your cake and eat it two.If the hands went up the call is made and the batter should have been awarded first base.

[oldschool11]

I have seen this over and over - the umpire does not know the rules -OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND SAY WHAT YOU MEAN !

[3ABirdMan]

I have seen this over and over - the umpire does not know the rules -OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND SAY WHAT YOU MEAN !

Sorry, but I took it as the umpire ANTICIPATED the play to go one way (HBP), and made a call. The problem was, the play did not go the way the ump ANTICIPATED it to go, so we now have a dead ball called instead of a continuing play. And that error only led to another.

Knowing the rules and blowing a call are 2 different things, oldschool11! :roll:

[bigred75]

tell em birdman...............

[oldschool11]

Looks like both of you need to dig your head out o the saaaaaaad tooo

[orangecrush]

You tellum oldschool11 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rhino1877]

Umpires are allowed to make mistakes, but all of the mistakes are not liked. Whatever the umpire says 9 out of 10 cases will stay that way. If the ump cals a ball foul then the ball is foul no matter if it was fair. Same situation here. If the hands went up and the umpire called the dead ball then he should be awarded 1st.

[bigred75]

exactly....rhino........... Oldschool what is saaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddddd????

[MrUmp1]

As an Umpire I know the correct call. Once you call dead ball or foul ball then that is what it is right or wrong. To take this further.. anyone that has umpired for any time learns very quickly to not anticipate a pitched ball or a call on the bases. As umpires we learn from making mistakes. Recognizing that we made a mistake and learning from it is how you get better. Most of you on here are fans of the sports or certain teams. Just remember as a high school umpire or even a college umpire, this is just a hobby to us. You can't make a living calling at any level other than proball and minor league umps starve to death. We would love for any of you to come try to be an umpire. www.tasobeaumont.org see ya at the ballpark. goodluck to all our local teams this week. And yea .. I am calling a playoff series this week. ( can't tell ya which one ) LOL

[bigred75]

Why is it whenever someone gets on here and debates a call or questions a call SOME ump feels the need to get on here and tell everyone that they NEED to be an ump or they need to shutup. Last time I checked it was freedom of speech and thought in the good ole USA. No one is attacking anyone, so why feel the need to get so defensive about every cotton pickin thing on here. CHILL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't a group of people debate an issue without some froot loop getting on here and trying to scold us for "questioning a call." Last time I checked this board was for entertainment and information. Enough with the sensitive UMPS.........................................

[hfaninthestands]

Deep Breath BigRed....

I think he was just stating how umpires through experience, get to be pretty good at what they do.....

As far as him stating that if they wanna be an umpire log on to www.tasobeaumont.com, which should be renamed to www.weneedumpiressodesperatlybad.com, because they are in dire need of them.

it is the same way that COOP got the word out for this board....

he was on every board known to man, repeated posts, calling people out, making up rivalries, just to get people to get here, and it worked....

[bigred75]

Oh yeah I hear ya......I am not getting on this guy in particular.....It just seems that sometimes on here and also on the Softball board Umps and others think if you post something questioning a call, you should be shackled and flogged. Crazy.......I was just stating that if he was meaning it that way to calm down it aint the end of the world. Thats all. And maybe he was recruiting............

[Coach 18]

The umpires could just do what they did in one of our games this past year. They called a "Do Over", yes, a "Do Over"! "We messed up, so we will just do it over", was the reply i received. As far as the pay goes, an umpire could make a pretty good living calling games. Trust me, I pay the umpires everytime we have a game. 48 cents a mile for travel and $10 meal money. Not to mention a share of the gate and game fees. I have paid $125 on multiple occasions this year for umpires.

[hfaninthestands]

I have paid $125 on multiple occasions this year for umpires.

I think that's a UIL violation somewhere, gotta be

Your school might have paid the bill, actually taxpayers (legal citizens) paid for the umpires...what does it matter to the coach?

[bigred75]

I will agree that Umps and Refs can make a living at it if they want to. I have seen it. Now your busy as heck, but it can be done. That last post about getting gate fees, and meal money, and all that..........is that normal????????????

[Coach 18]

I think that's a UIL violation somewhere, gotta be

Your school might have paid the bill, actually taxpayers (legal citizens) paid for the umpires...what does it matter to the coach?

When it comes out of my budget, it is me paying for it! That's why it matters to the coach. The association just added the meal money last year to their fee. I have had umpires eat burgers at the concession stand before and after games and still charge $10 meal money fee! When your school has very little money to start with, all these little fees add up.

[hfaninthestands]

I don't know if can believe that you have a baseball budget for officials...

what if that budget runs out? Do you get the team mom and that one crazy fan that everybody has to umpire? or just throw in the towel?

[MrUmp1]

I am sorry if we had umps eat burgers and charge a meal fee. We have told them not to do that, but some guys are always going to try to get over on someone. The UIL does set guidelines that we have to go by r :shock: ight now this is how it breaks down.

44 1/2 cents per mile. Thats the state rate for mileage at this time which is based on gasoline prices. If gas were to go back down ( and thats a big IF ) then the fee would be lower.

40.00 min game fee.

10.00 meal money not per game per day.. not for tournament games.. and not for a place that will give you a burger after the game.

Gate money that is added to the min fee if a school is charging a gate per the UIL schedule. Most of the time the gate only comes to 10 to 20 dollars extra a game. The playoffs is where the gate can matter depending on who is playing and where the game is. Yes we need officials, all sports do. The numbers are down. Not all people have the time between work and family to dedicate the time it takes to be an official. I just do baseball , but I know guys that call multiple sports. I know some coaches complain about our pay, but we have equipment, clothes, shoes ,chapter dues, state dues, geez we start in the hole by a few hundred dollars every year, but I love doing it. It has just made me look at games from a different perspective.