Better Football Power Newton or WOS?

[Setx fan]

53 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Well.... the whole purpose of this thread was to ask which program was the bigger powerhouse. Since WOS regularly steps up and plays 5As like Nederland and PNG, you can’t claim an advantage there, either. 

WOS’ football program outshines Newton’s in every way possible.  
 

 

It’s my opinion that Newton is the better program. I don’t have a problem with you believing WOS having the better program. I do have a problem with you underminding the success of Newton’s program because of their classification. If we go by that then West Brook is the biggest powerhouse and I don’t think most would agree with that 

[EAGLEFOREVER]

Give old CB a break, he's talking about  two of his most hated schools and can't talk bad about both of them.

[EAGLEFOREVER]

4 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Mayweather ducked Moseley for years.  Pacquiao for years.... etc, etc, etc.... 

So why has WOS been in existence since 77 (I think) and won four, but it's taken Newton 100+ years to win 5 against much, much weaker competition?

Do you really want to talk winning percentages? 

I'll put it to you like this... 2015.  The Eagles started out 1 and 4, losing to teams like WOS, Henderson, (neither of which are anything to be ashamed of) BRIDGE CITY  and Orangefield.  The Eagles then "flipped a switch" and went undefeated in District play and were "upset" by Franklin in a close game in the 3rd round of the playoffs.   Except it wasn't so much a "flipped switch" as much as the fact that there was a tremendous drop in the level of competition faced by the Eagles once district play started.  And that's true of every year. 

Newton's dominance has a whole lot more to do with playing sorry opposition when it counts.  It's not Newton's fault, but everybody realizes that you guys have a cakewalk through the playoffs compared to the paths taken by the teams to which you keep trying to compare yourselves.

Be proud.  You guys have won more than your share of small school championships.  It really is impressive.  But you guys believe that having the prize-winning pig at the Jasper County Livestock show is the exact same thing as having the Grand Champion at the Houston Livestock Show.  I mean, they're both pigs, right?

 

If you can't go back to 2014 and tell me a switch was flipped, then I have to wonder about your knowledge of football.

[EAGLEFOREVER]

I hate things like this, because there really is no comparison. Two schools from two different classifications and two different enrollments. If we had WOS enrollment numbers, who knows how good or bad we would be? Nobody.  If WOS  had Newtons enrollment numbers, who knows how good or bad they would be? Nobody. It is like comparing apples and oranges, there is none. Unlike CB these are my two favorite schools. Why, because one is my Alma Mater and because both have nasty defenses when they are good. I believe in defenses.

[CardinalBacker]

3 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

I am going to post 3 images: 1 is of Jon Kay holding up North Shore's 6A, Division I trophy in 2019, 1 is of W.T. Johnston holding up Newton's 3A, Division II trophy in 2018 and the 3rd is of Cornel Thompson holding up West Orange-Stark's Class 4A, Division II in 2016.  Tell me which is which:

1

2

3

Oh, that’s easy... the coach making the most money is the one holding the 6A trophy. 

[CardinalBacker]

3 hours ago, Setx fan said:

It’s my opinion that Newton is the better program. I don’t have a problem with you believing WOS having the better program. I do have a problem with you underminding the success of Newton’s program because of their classification. If we go by that then West Brook is the biggest powerhouse and I don’t think most would agree with that 

No... West Brook hasn’t had nearly as much success as either Newton or WOS. 
 

There’s a reason why the small school games kick off on Thursday morning and play in front of a couple of hundred people while the big boys play in front of huge crowds during prime time. 
 

It’s true of every sport and competition that gets played. Somewhere there’s a 2A State Champion marching band and they can’t even begin to compare to a 6A state championship marching band... except in the minds of those 2A band nerds and their parents. 
 

Don’t get me wrong... I’m envious of all of the success that the Eagles have had. They’re obviously out-kicking their coverage on a pretty regular basis. 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, EAGLEFOREVER said:

Give old CB a break, he's talking about  two of his most hated schools and can't talk bad about both of them.

That just proves that I am obviously unbiased and my opinions should be given more consideration than yours, lol. 

[Setx fan]

49 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

No... West Brook hasn’t had nearly as much success as either Newton or WOS. 
 

There’s a reason why the small school games kick off on Thursday morning and play in front of a couple of hundred people while the big boys play in front of huge crowds during prime time. 
 

It’s true of every sport and competition that gets played. Somewhere there’s a 2A State Champion marching band and they can’t even begin to compare to a 6A state championship marching band... except in the minds of those 2A band nerds and their parents. 
 

Don’t get me wrong... I’m envious of all of the success that the Eagles have had. They’re obviously out-kicking their coverage on a pretty regular basis. 

By the logic you were using earlier Newton or WOS wouldn’t have as much success on the 6A level so all their accomplishments don’t count. They’re “WNBA Champions” lol 

[EAGLEFOREVER]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

That just proves that I am obviously unbiased and my opinions should be given more consideration than yours, lol. 

I have given no opinion

[Tiger33]

Both are special programs. I just hope the corona virus don’t mess with football season. 

[CardinalBacker]

9 hours ago, Setx fan said:

By the logic you were using earlier Newton or WOS wouldn’t have as much success on the 6A level so all their accomplishments don’t count. They’re “WNBA Champions” lol 

Not that they don’t count... but that WOS’ count more than Newton’s. 
 

You could make the same argument about WOS playing in what now appears to have been a “watered down” classification (4AD2) during that run 14-17, except they were beating good playoff 4AD1 5A teams to sleep in that stretch, too.

 I kinda wonder if WOS might find themselves on the outside looking in for SC runs as big schools (Silsbee, Carthage, and now BC, lol) are joining them in D2. 

[Setx fan]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Not that they don’t count... but that WOS’ count more than Newton’s. 
 

You could make the same argument about WOS playing in what now appears to have been a “watered down” classification (4AD2) during that run 14-17, except they were beating good playoff 4AD1 5A teams to sleep in that stretch, too.

 I kinda wonder if WOS might find themselves on the outside looking in for SC runs as big schools (Silsbee, Carthage, and now BC, lol) are joining them in D2. 

That 14 year they lost to Newton while beating a decent 5A team and going verry deep in the playoffs. That in itself shows you Newton’s classification doesn’t have as much to do with their success as a hater would attempt to make it seem 

[CardinalBacker]

It doesn't make me a hater if I say that winner of the 2020 NCAA Division II National Championship is NOT the same and comparable to the 2020 LSU Tigers.  I'll bet you can't even name that D2 Natty champ without looking it up. 

That's my problem with the whole argument.  If you're a fan of the Eagles, feel free to throw your chest out say "we've been 3A champs 5 times now! That's pretty good isn't it?"

What you have instead is Eagles fans (not in this thread, but previously) in 2018 saying "boy, it's a shame that we never got to face off with Carthage... that'd be a good game" when in fact you guys needed a last second interception to hang onto a victory in the 3AD2 SC game. Every reasonable person knows that Carthage would have beaten Newton until their was blood in their purple socks. 

I used to drag race stock Mustangs in the 90s.  My car was really fast for a stock one, and still fit within the rules of the factory stock class.  I beat plenty of modified cars on the street and on the track.  But on Sunday afternoon, when I was standing next to my 13 second stock mustang holding my trophy, it was hard to say that my accomplishments compared to the guys who were winning their classes with 10 second cars. It is what it is. 

Know your spot.  Be proud of your spot.  But quit pretending that your accomplishments are in any way superior (or even comparable) to those of the bigger programs who have achieved similar successes.  

 

[Setx fan]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

It doesn't make me a hater if I say that winner of the 2020 NCAA Division II National Championship is NOT the same and comparable to the 2020 LSU Tigers.  I'll bet you can't even name that D2 Natty champ without looking it up. 

That's my problem with the whole argument.  If you're a fan of the Eagles, feel free to throw your chest out say "we've been 3A champs 5 times now! That's pretty good isn't it?"

What you have instead is Eagles fans (not in this thread, but previously) in 2018 saying "boy, it's a shame that we never got to face off with Carthage... that'd be a good game" when in fact you guys needed a last second interception to hang onto a victory in the 3AD2 SC game. Every reasonable person knows that Carthage would have beaten Newton until their was blood in their purple socks. 

I used to drag race stock Mustangs in the 90s.  My car was really fast for a stock one, and still fit within the rules of the factory stock class.  I beat plenty of modified cars on the street and on the track.  But on Sunday afternoon, when I was standing next to my 13 second stock mustang holding my trophy, it was hard to say that my accomplishments compared to the guys who were winning their classes with 10 second cars. It is what it is. 

Know your spot.  Be proud of your spot.  But quit pretending that your accomplishments are in any way superior (or even comparable) to those of the bigger programs who have achieved similar successes.  

 

I don’t pay much attention to D2 college ball because in most cases D2 players are there because they’re not good enough to play D1. In high school a small school athlete is there because that where his family thought best to live. Has nothing to do with their ability. At really good small school like Newton there are usually a couple athletes that would be really good at a bigger school also. Now there are normally more of those at big schools but that’s a no brainer. If a school has twice the students they’ll probably have twice the athletes. The small school has half as many athletes so they have to have more guys playing multiple positions and more underclassmen filling some of the positions. Doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a lower quality of athletes but definitely a lower quantity. Bigger schools should normally beat smaller schools for that reason. Newton is normally dominant against schools their size when the playing field is even. Their SC shouldn’t have any less meaning than WOS who normally dominates against schools their size. If we’re going to knock either team because of their classification then Westbrook will probably be the closest thing to a powerhouse in SETX

[Setx fan]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

It doesn't make me a hater if I say that winner of the 2020 NCAA Division II National Championship is NOT the same and comparable to the 2020 LSU Tigers.  I'll bet you can't even name that D2 Natty champ without looking it up. 

That's my problem with the whole argument.  If you're a fan of the Eagles, feel free to throw your chest out say "we've been 3A champs 5 times now! That's pretty good isn't it?"

What you have instead is Eagles fans (not in this thread, but previously) in 2018 saying "boy, it's a shame that we never got to face off with Carthage... that'd be a good game" when in fact you guys needed a last second interception to hang onto a victory in the 3AD2 SC game. Every reasonable person knows that Carthage would have beaten Newton until their was blood in their purple socks. 

I used to drag race stock Mustangs in the 90s.  My car was really fast for a stock one, and still fit within the rules of the factory stock class.  I beat plenty of modified cars on the street and on the track.  But on Sunday afternoon, when I was standing next to my 13 second stock mustang holding my trophy, it was hard to say that my accomplishments compared to the guys who were winning their classes with 10 second cars. It is what it is. 

Know your spot.  Be proud of your spot.  But quit pretending that your accomplishments are in any way superior (or even comparable) to those of the bigger programs who have achieved similar successes.  

 

The Newton team in 2018 was awesome although they underperformed a little during the SC in my opinion. But they still went undefeated and won the SC. How can you blame the Newton folks for wishful thinking? Some believe it might have been a good game and I dont think that’s too far fetched. I personally think Newton may have lost by 3 or 4 scores which is not close but respectable. You think they would have been “beaten till there was blood in their purple socks”. I don’t know what you mean by that but it seems like a LOT OF HATE to me lol 

[CardinalBacker]

7 minutes ago, Setx fan said:

The Newton team in 2018 was awesome although they underperformed a little during the SC in my opinion. But they still went undefeated and won the SC. How can you blame the Newton folks for wishful thinking? Some believe it might have been a good game and I dont think that’s too far fetched. I personally think Newton may have lost by 3 or 4 scores which is not close but respectable. You think they would have been “beaten till there was blood in their purple socks”. I don’t know what you mean by that but it seems like a LOT OF HATE to me lol

That’s what I’m talking about. 
 

They’d have hung 3 or 4 scores on you in the first quarter before they let the backups put another six tds on you. Y’all might have scored once in garbage time. Then y’all would have blamed it on having to ride school buses to the game. 
 

Everybody knows it. That’s why nobody who isn’t wearing purple is disagreeing with me. 
 

Anyways. I’ve made my point.

 

Anybody else wanna take a few whacks at this dead horse?

[Setx fan]

19 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s what I’m talking about. 
 

They’d have hung 3 or 4 scores on you in the first quarter before they let the backups put another six tds on you. Y’all might have scored once in garbage time. Then y’all would have blamed it on having to ride school buses to the game. 
 

Everybody knows it. That’s why nobody who isn’t wearing purple is disagreeing with me. 
 

Anyways. I’ve made my point.

 

Anybody else wanna take a few whacks at this dead horse?

I don’t wear purple. I wear black and gold. Second.. are you saying Carthage 2018 would have 9 or 10 scores to Newton 2018’s 1 score? 

[Godzilla]

Somebody already said it, it's apples and oranges. They are both great power houses. 

[NetCat]

26 minutes ago, Physical Atmosphere said:

Both teams are great powerhouse. Why does it matter which is more of a powerhouse ? Just be happy to be a powerhouse unlike Silsbee & Jasper.

🤣🤣🤣

[STiger85]

It's all about the Benjamin's to you cardinalbacker. Bigger city, nicer facilities, more fans, best stadium. If that's the case then the Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl wins are better than any other NFL teams Super Bowl wins. Why? Because the Cowboys have the nicer facilities, the most fans, the best stadium, the most money, even though its been twenty five years since the Cowboys have won a Super Bowl. By the way you judge teams on this thread you give off the impression that you never played sports and was never taught the value of playing sports, you cant even pick which State Championship trophy is which. How can you measure commitment, dedication, blood, sweet, tears, joy that each team, each player has with a State Championship. Not one is more and not one is less. Don't forget to pick which State Championship trophy is which.

[CardinalBacker]

On 3/28/2020 at 10:20 AM, STiger85 said:

It's all about the Benjamin's to you cardinalbacker. Bigger city, nicer facilities, more fans, best stadium. If that's the case then the Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl wins are better than any other NFL teams Super Bowl wins. Why? Because the Cowboys have the nicer facilities, the most fans, the best stadium, the most money, even though its been twenty five years since the Cowboys have won a Super Bowl. By the way you judge teams on this thread you give off the impression that you never played sports and was never taught the value of playing sports, you cant even pick which State Championship trophy is which. How can you measure commitment, dedication, blood, sweet, tears, joy that each team, each player has with a State Championship. Not one is more and not one is less. Don't forget to pick which State Championship trophy is which.

By your logic the cowboys ARE one of the best teams in the NFL. They have five championships, just like the Eagles. 
 

it doesn’t really matter that it took a hundred years to get them.  

[STiger85]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

By your logic the cowboys ARE one of the best teams in the NFL. They have five championships, just like the Eagles. 
 

it doesn’t really matter that it took a hundred years to get them.  

Actually I was going off your logic. You remember what you said the teams with the most money and best of everything matter the most. 

[CardinalBacker]

11 hours ago, STiger85 said:

Actually I was going off your logic. You remember what you said the teams with the most money and best of everything matter the most. 

I never said "most money."  But definitely the best coaches are correspondingly paid the best.   You have some outliers like Carthage and Barbers Hill who are willing to throw cash at top tier guys, but typically your best coaches (and therefore highest paid) are in the bigger schools.  That's not a knock on guys like CT and WT Johnston who are legendary coaches in their own right.  The only reason that both haven't gone on to bigger schools is that they are well aware that their styles and techniques won't work in larger, nicer areas like they do in Newton and West Orange.  The kids and parents would revolt.  

So I'll ask you a question... please answer honestly.   

Does a Junior College National Championship "matter" as much as the NCAA Division I Natty?  If so, please explain.   

[CardinalBacker]

I bet the mods are laughing at you right now , you know the ones that are privy to the I.P. addresses .They know when multiple accounts are set to the same I.P.  I bet CardinalBacker is too. You are a regular Sherlock Holmes !

 

[CardinalBacker]

 

Dang it.... posted from the wrong account.