Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

[CardinalBacker]

26 minutes ago, Kountzer said:

And I don't think I'm wrong about the black community as a whole believing EVERYTHING is about race.  Nobody has come up with ONE SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that would point towards this shooting in Georgia being race related, other than the fact that the shooter and deceased were of different races.  NOTHING.  Yet that's the headline and belief held everywhere.  

Call it what you want but if the roles were reversed and a black ex police officer and his son chased down a white jogger because he trepassed on a construction sight.  Then tried to stop him twice.  Got ahead of him, stopped in the middle of the street, the son jumps out with a shot gun, and they tried to execute a citizens arrest.   And the guy ends up shot and killed, they would of been in jail in less than 24 hours, if they even made it to jail.  They would be in a cell waiting a trial and and at least life in prison, if not the death penalty.   Now if you want to say I blame everything on race go ahead.  That's your cockeyed opinion and you are entitled to it.

I'll do you one better than that.  

In 2010 Robert Arnold was an off duty police officer in Orange, Texas.... He ended up in a confrontation with a "unarmed" white man (ironically named "Whitehead") at the local O'Reilly's Auto Parts and the end result was that Mr. Whitehead prematurely crossed the River Jordan to sing with the angels. That happened in Orange County, Texas.... Mr. Arnold was never arrested and no-billed by a grand jury made up from citizens from diverse areas such as Vidor, Bridge City, Little Cypress, Mauriceville, and Orangefield.

I reserved judgment until I heard enough of the evidence to make me believe that, while the situation could have been handled other ways in hindsight, the black police officer wasn't criminally responsible for the death of Mr. Whitehead.   It had nothing to do with race.  Other than the victim's family, I don't remember anybody claiming that race was an issue. 

  

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Once again... that's not San Francisco, that's not NYC... that's right here in our community.  

*Edit* and for what it's worth, the media was doing their thing there, too.  "Orange cop who shot Marine"   All indications are that the deceased was a violent drug user and had long since been discharged from the Marine Corps.  But they gotta play up that racial angle if they want to sell more ads. Bastids.

[CardinalBacker]

Just now, baddog said:

I was just trying to correct his term of “murder”  where he should have used homicide. Murder is never justified whereas there is justifiable homicide.

No worries... I've heard several people claim that they felt that the shooting of Mr. Arbery was a matter of self defense, but I disagree and feel the need to share the knowledge, lol.  

[Kountzer]

Aubery tried to out maneuver the two trying vigilantes trying to apprehend him by passing by on the right side of the truck, which was in the middle of the road.  But the son with the shotgun blocked him.  So he came back to the left and pass by that way.  That does not sound aggressive to me on the part of the jogger.  He is just trying to go about his way.   When he was blocked on the left side he was caught in a no win situation.   He had two armed white men, who are obviously hunting him down.  They are trying to apprehend him.  Maybe their motives are for good.  Maybe they are not.  Contrary to cardinal whatever says not all southern white men are good, balanced citizens.  A whole lot of murder and mayhem has been perpetrated against black people in the South.  Lynchings, bombings, rapes, castrations just about every heinous act you can think of.  Much of it is recorded in history.  A lot of it has been covered over.   So he comes around on the left side he has a decision to make.  Does he surrender to these armed men?  Who knows what their intentions are?  They are not dressed like law enforcement because they are not law enforcement.   He knows he has not done anything worthy of having guns drawn on him.   For all he knows he is fighting for his life.  So he decides to fight.   If those  two clowns had not tried to take the law into their on hands vigilante style none of that would have happened.

[Kountzer]

If I were so inclined I could sit around and document every evil crime Whites and others commit on a regular basis.  That stuff passes through the media on a daily basis.  I could go back to time when I was 13 and this young black guy, a track star was walking home from a track meet holding hand with his white girl friend.  White guys passed by and hit him in the head with a big cinder block.   They were caught and got probation.  They guy hit in the head was a vegetable for the rest of his.  

[baddog]

I love all the insight into this meeting. These were obviously two red-necked murderers out on a mission to kill a black man. The innocent victim was obviously just on a healthy jog. Since people who weren’t there can know what happened, please explain to me the interest in the construction site where the victim had gotten in trouble before. What was there? Did some dumb carpenter leave his miter saw and tool box on the site? The only other thing I can come up with is that the house was not dried in and the electrical had been run. People do like them some copper nowadays. Please enlighten me.......since you were there.

[CardinalBacker]

3 minutes ago, Kountzer said:

Aubery tried to out maneuver the two trying vigilantes trying to apprehend him by passing by on the right side of the truck, which was in the middle of the road.  But the son with the shotgun blocked him.  So he came back to the left and pass by that way.  That does not sound aggressive to me on the part of the jogger.  He is just trying to go about his way.   When he was blocked on the left side he was caught in a no win situation.   He had two armed white men, who are obviously hunting him down.  They are trying to apprehend him.  Maybe their motives are for good.  Maybe they are not.  Contrary to cardinal whatever says not all southern white men are good, balanced citizens.  A whole lot of murder and mayhem has been perpetrated against black people in the South.  Lynchings, bombings, rapes, castrations just about every heinous act you can think of.  Much of it is recorded in history.  A lot of it has been covered over.   So he comes around on the left side he has a decision to make.  Does he surrender to these armed men?  Who knows what their intentions are?  They are not dressed like law enforcement because they are not law enforcement.   He knows he has not done anything worthy of having guns drawn on him.   For all he knows he is fighting for his life.  So he decides to fight.   If those  two clowns had not tried to take the law into their on hands vigilante style none of that would have happened.

And if he hadn't made the decision to engage, it's also likely that none of this would have happened, either. 

 

That's the whole point I've been trying to make.  I don't think anybody out there is solely responsible for what happened that day. 

 

I get what you're saying about the history of violence and the horrible things that have happened over time.  But I think that there's a tremendous difference in the way that things are done today than there was in the "old days."  My grandfather was born in East Texas in 1903.  He was alive during the resurgence of the Klan and a lot of the horrible, bad stuff that happened way back when.  My Dad graduated in the mid-60s and he can remember the Civil Rights struggles and animosity that occurred. The dogs, the water hoses, etc...  I grew up and saw things like the LA Riots and OJ trial.  Those were rough times, but nothing like the troubles faced by the black community 80-100 years ago.  Not even as bad as what was going on in the '60s.... My kids have no idea what it's like to grow up in an era where the N-word is acceptable enough to use on Saturday Night Live... I was.   So when I look at how far we've come as a nation and as human beings, I'm excited and proud.  When people try to convince others that things like the black community experienced in the past are still ongoing, I'm obligated to speak up.  

[Kountzer]

1 minute ago, baddog said:

I love all the insight into this meeting. These were obviously two red-necked murderers out on a mission to kill a black man. The innocent victim was obviously just on a healthy jog. Since people who weren’t there can know what happened, please explain to me the interest in the construction site where the victim had gotten in trouble before. What was there? Did some dumb carpenter leave his miter saw and tool box on the site? The only other thing I can come up with is that the house was not dried in and the electrical had been run. People do like them some copper nowadays. Please enlighten me.......since you were there.

The owner of the construction sight said nothing was taken and no crime was committed other that misdemeanor trespassing. The police had not been called about prior problems, not at the construction sight or anywhere else.   It would of added more weight to their claims of prior burglaries if they had called the police, but there was no record of them doing so.  The guy should not have trespassed.  He should of known better than to jog through a white neighborhood.  I guess he figured since they cheered for him white he played football for the local high school team that it was alright.  Wrong.  

 

[Kountzer]

4 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

And if he hadn't made the decision to engage, it's also likely that none of this would have happened, either. 

 

That's the whole point I've been trying to make.  I don't think anybody out there is solely responsible for what happened that day. 

 

I get what you're saying about the history of violence and the horrible things that have happened over time.  But I think that there's a tremendous difference in the way that things are done today than there was in the "old days."  My grandfather was born in East Texas in 1903.  He was alive during the resurgence of the Klan and a lot of the horrible, bad stuff that happened way back when.  My Dad graduated in the mid-60s and he can remember the Civil Rights struggles and animosity that occurred. The dogs, the water hoses, etc...  I grew up and saw things like the LA Riots and OJ trial.  Those were rough times, but nothing like the troubles faced by the black community 80-100 years ago.  Not even as bad as what was going on in the '60s.... My kids have no idea what it's like to grow up in an era where the N-word is acceptable enough to use on Saturday Night Live... I was.   So when I look at how far we've come as a nation and as human beings, I'm excited and proud.  When people try to convince others that things like the black community experienced in the past are still ongoing, I'm obligated to speak up.  

You got all these stories.  I don't believe you.  I think you are insane.

[CardinalBacker]

10 minutes ago, Kountzer said:

The owner of the construction sight said nothing was taken and no crime was committed other that misdemeanor trespassing. The police had not been called about prior problems, not at the construction sight or anywhere else.   It would of added more weight to their claims of prior burglaries if they had called the police, but there was no record of them doing so.  The guy should not have trespassed.  He should of known better than to jog through a white neighborhood.  I guess he figured since they cheered for him white he played football for the local high school team that it was alright.  Wrong.  

 

That's not accurate.  The homeowner had installed a motion detecting security system with three cameras after the place being visited a few times.  On the night of 2/11 (12 days before the killing) the system notified him of an intrusion and he called a neighbor (Perez) who armed himself and went to the site.  When Perez got there Travis (the eventual shooter) was there and the police were notified.  I've listened to the 911 calls. Perez also believed that the subject captured on the cameras on 2/11 was Arbery.  There is supposedly other photos of a person identified as Mr. Arbery in the structure as far back as December, but I can't verify that, so don't quote me.  

 

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I personally don't think he stole anything from the site.  

[5GallonBucket]

19 hours ago, Kountzer said:

He didn't commit any crimes worthy of being murdered.

[5GallonBucket]

26 minutes ago, Kountzer said:

Aubery tried to out maneuver the two trying vigilantes trying to apprehend him by passing by on the right side of the truck, which was in the middle of the road.  But the son with the shotgun blocked him.  So he came back to the left and pass by that way.  That does not sound aggressive to me on the part of the jogger.  He is just trying to go about his way.   When he was blocked on the left side he was caught in a no win situation.   He had two armed white men, who are obviously hunting him down.  They are trying to apprehend him.  Maybe their motives are for good.  Maybe they are not.  Contrary to cardinal whatever says not all southern white men are good, balanced citizens.  A whole lot of murder and mayhem has been perpetrated against black people in the South.  Lynchings, bombings, rapes, castrations just about every heinous act you can think of.  Much of it is recorded in history.  A lot of it has been covered over.   So he comes around on the left side he has a decision to make.  Does he surrender to these armed men?  Who knows what their intentions are?  They are not dressed like law enforcement because they are not law enforcement.   He knows he has not done anything worthy of having guns drawn on him.   For all he knows he is fighting for his life.  So he decides to fight.   If those  two clowns had not tried to take the law into their on hands vigilante style none of that would have happened.

Did you seen a different video.

cause the one I saw was he was running down middle of road....truck was in middle of road. Shotgun guy was on the left (driver side). Man in back of truck. Nobody  on right side of truck (passenger side) Ahmed ran to the passenger side where no one was at.   So why run back to the left at the guy with the shotgun?

[CardinalBacker]

2 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

Did you seen a different video.

cause the one I saw was he was running down middle of road....truck was in middle of road. Shotgun guy was on the left (driver side). Man in back of truck. Nobody  on right side of truck (passenger side) Ahmed ran to the passenger side where no one was at.   So why run back to the left at the guy with the shotgun?

Yeah... I understood what Kountzer was saying he's just using backwards directions. 

Two ways of looking at it from my perspective. Either the young man was trying to avoid the confrontation by going around the right side of the truck (which is what I believe) or he was doing what my military friends would call a "flanking maneuver" which I highly doubt.  

My assertion was that by the time he got to the front of the truck (a) Mr. Arbery was in fear for his life and thought his best bet was to try and disarm the gentleman with the shotgun or (b) Mr. Arbery got angry and let his emotions and adrenaline get the best of him.

I tend to think "b." Both parties had the option of doing things differently and I believe that if either of them had made better choices, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

[5GallonBucket]

55 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Yeah... I understood what Kountzer was saying he's just using backwards directions. 

Two ways of looking at it from my perspective. Either the young man was trying to avoid the confrontation by going around the right side of the truck (which is what I believe) or he was doing what my military friends would call a "flanking maneuver" which I highly doubt.  

My assertion was that by the time he got to the front of the truck (a) Mr. Arbery was in fear for his life and thought his best bet was to try and disarm the gentleman with the shotgun or (b) Mr. Arbery got angry and let his emotions and adrenaline get the best of him.

I tend to think "b." Both parties had the option of doing things differently and I believe that if either of them had made better choices, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

Agree

Like I said early poor decisions by all involved 

[Kountzer]

Arbery was seen in yet another video, this one back in February.  In this one he was yet again inside that construction sight.  Southern survival 101, do not jog in white neighborhoods.  
Also, do not steal or trespass.   They may kill you.

[Kountzer]

After all the histrionics, and all the history and revisionist history, all the YouTube videos and Friday night football games, all the race hating & race baiting is this:  We're all gonna die, after that the judgment.  And, there are two deaths.  It is in the Bible.  The first death can come anytime, any where.  It could be from sickness, a car wreck or executed by some person that Satan has been preparing, and God allows to do the deed.  If you die unprepared in the first death you will certainly die again in the second death.  The second death is final.  That's it.  If you die the first death but you were spiritually prepared you only die once.   There is an old saying born once die twice.  That is not good.  The better way is to  go is live twice and die once.

God is going to execute the 2nd death Himself.  There is no return from the 2nd death.  That is it.  Also the notion that you go to hell and burn forever and ever is a lie and a doctrine of demons.

[LumRaiderFan]

1 hour ago, Kountzer said:

After all the histrionics, and all the history and revisionist history, all the YouTube videos and Friday night football games, all the race hating & race baiting is this:  We're all gonna die, after that the judgment.  And, there are two deaths.  It is in the Bible.  The first death can come anytime, any where.  It could be from sickness, a car wreck or executed by some person that Satan has been preparing, and God allows to do the deed.  If you die unprepared in the first death you will certainly die again in the second death.  The second death is final.  That's it.  If you die the first death but you were spiritually prepared you only die once.   There is an old saying born once die twice.  That is not good.  The better way is to  go is live twice and die once.

God is going to execute the 2nd death Himself.  There is no return from the 2nd death.  That is it.  Also the notion that you go to hell and burn forever and ever is a lie and a doctrine of demons.

Hard to receive a sermon from someone that just spewed out Southern survival 101, don’t jog in white neighborhoods.

Why don’t you read the scripture about removing the beam from your own eye...several times.

[5GallonBucket]

6 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Hard to receive a sermon from someone that just spewed out Southern survival 101, don’t jog in white neighborhoods.

Why don’t you read the scripture about removing the beam from your own eye...several times

[5GallonBucket]

7 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Hard to receive a sermon from someone that just spewed out Southern survival 101, don’t jog in white neighborhoods.

Why don’t you read the scripture about removing the beam from your own eye...several times.

Exactly

[Kountzer]

2 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Hard to receive a sermon from someone that just spewed out Southern survival 101, don’t jog in white neighborhoods.

Why don’t you read the scripture about removing the beam from your own eye...several times.

That wasn't no sermon, just a chit chat.  If you don't like it don't read it.   If it happens and it is the truth then my discussing it is not wrong.  Many a day and night I walked down the side of hwy 327 and had cars come off the road and pick up gravel with their. tires.   I was 8 or 9 but I had sense enough to walk way wide.  Southern survival 101.

[5GallonBucket]

2 hours ago, Kountzer said:

That wasn't no sermon, just a chit chat.  If you don't like it don't read it.   If it happens and it is the truth then my discussing it is not wrong.  Many a day and night I walked down the side of hwy 327 and had cars come off the road and pick up gravel with their. tires.   I was 8 or 9 but I had sense enough to walk way wide.  Southern survival 101.

[5GallonBucket]

2 hours ago, Kountzer said:

That wasn't no sermon, just a chit chat.  If you don't like it don't read it.   If it happens and it is the truth then my discussing it is not wrong.  Many a day and night I walked down the side of hwy 327 and had cars come off the road and pick up gravel with their. tires.   I was 8 or 9 but I had sense enough to walk way wide.  Southern survival 101.

I hope you don’t go to church with any white folk or work with any.

 

[LumRaiderFan]

2 hours ago, Kountzer said:

That wasn't no sermon, just a chit chat.  If you don't like it don't read it.   If it happens and it is the truth then my discussing it is not wrong.  Many a day and night I walked down the side of hwy 327 and had cars come off the road and pick up gravel with their. tires.   I was 8 or 9 but I had sense enough to walk way wide.  Southern survival 101.

Walking way wide on a highway isn’t Southern survival 101, it’s common sense.

[Kountzer]

Driving on the roadway pavement is common sense too.  It drive off of it too many times that is no coincidence.

[Kountzer]

14 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

I hope you don’t go to church with any white folk or work with any.

 

I'm just being truthful.  Whites are cool.  Many of them anyway.

[LumRaiderFan]

4 minutes ago, Kountzer said:

I'm just being truthful.  Whites are cool.  Many of them anyway.

Naw, you’re not being truthful, you’re just giving your opinion.