Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

[THE DUDE]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I wonder if that clip is legit? 
 

Even if it’s not Arbery, it’s a good illustration of what I’m talking about. You have cops who expect the worst out of young black men, and it’s understandable... you have young black men who are also expecting the worst out of cops, so I can recognize some of that anger comes from. BOTH sides have some work to do. 
 

When I was this young man’s age I was a long hair with a hot rod. We were constantly attracting the attention of law enforcement to the point that it sometimes felt like we were being picked on... we ended up with a lot of their attention. The big differences were that those were choices that we made to attract that attention, and you could lose that attention with a haircut and different ride... young men like this one can’t escape the suspicion that goes with being young and black. 
Also, the attention that we received involved tickets and the occasional cussing... nobody EVER had any type of weapon pointed at them. So it’s not really all that comparable. 

TMZ released it as ahmaud if that means anything. 

this video shows a couple of things. 

1 ahmaud is somewhere he is not suppose to be. most city parks don't allow you to drive on the grass.

2  ahmaud's aggressive behavior when he feels like he is being mistreated. if he will act that aggressive towards the police just think what he will do to normal people he is upset at.

bottom line ahmaud is not some innocent jogger who got murdered.....

[CardinalBacker]

34 minutes ago, THE DUDE said:

TMZ released it as ahmaud if that means anything. 

this video shows a couple of things. 

1 ahmaud is somewhere he is not suppose to be. most city parks don't allow you to drive on the grass.

2  ahmaud's aggressive behavior when he feels like he is being mistreated. if he will act that aggressive towards the police just think what he will do to normal people he is upset at.

bottom line ahmaud is not some innocent jogger who got murdered.....

I saw another source confirming that it was him.  

I didn't take anything from the video other than he seemed to be aggressive when dealing with the police.  It's not hard to imagine him exercising even less restraint with civilians.  It's what I suspected all along.

 

[baddog]

He was out jogging to the store for some Skittles. When he was stopped, he threw his hands in the air and said, “Don’t Shoot”!

[stevenash]

13 minutes ago, baddog said:

He was out jogging to the store for some Skittles. When he was stopped, he threw his hands in the air and said, “Don’t Shoot”!

:):):)

 

[tvc184]

7 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s funny... every progressive out there says that the key to solving the most dangerous problem facing black America today (rouge cops) was COMMUNITY POLICING!

This, my friend, is what “community policing” looks like, and you’re hoping that the cop gets “spanked” or loses his job over it. This is what Kap was hoping to create by wearing his piggy socks. 

That is nonsense.  Community policing has absolutely nothing to do with telling people, let the retired cop take care off it. 

 I can almost guarantee that the officer who sent that text did not please his chief or any community policing unit. 

I guess you think it is good CPing to overcome rogue cops by referring them to a retired rogue cop... 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

That is nonsense.  Community policing has absolutely nothing to do with telling people, let the retired cop take care off it. 

 I can almost guarantee that the officer who sent that text did not please his chief or any community policing unit. 

I guess you think it is good CPing to overcome rogue cops by referring them to a retired rogue cop... 

Sorry, my uninformed friend......

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"Police and citizens often come into contact with each other for reasons other than criminal investigation. In addition to enforcing criminal law, police officers often engage in community service. Community service may include providing information and/or assistance to people in need, as well as offering youth education and coordinating community outreach efforts. In many communities, police officers network to establish partnerships between residents and the law enforcement agency. Community-oriented policing seeks to address the causes of crime and to reduce fear of social disorder through problem-solving strategies and police- community partnerships. Typically, it involves a greater use of foot and bicycle patrols and frequent meetings with community groups."

You see, "community policing" means a lot of things.... of which helping neighbors help neighbors.... I'll be honest.  I'm impressed that a cop would know enough about a neighborhood to realize that a retired officer/investigator lived nearby and would be able/willing to help.  But to you he's a "rogue cop."

Let me guess... if you have bothered to watch the video uploaded this morning of the previous encounter that Mr. Arbery had with law enforcement in 2017, you're initial reaction is to say "well, he still didn't deserve to be murdered" instead of thinking ...."jeez, this kid has a hard on for authority"  and that attitude means that you're a part of the problem.  

[PAMFAM10]

I thinks it’s best to accept the facts on this case. What someone did 3 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with anything. From the beginning some became too eager to prove the victim was somehow not the victim. It just makes me wonder why are some trying so desperately to find fault in the victim. if the jogger was white the narrative would have been . Innocent teen on jog attack by vicious armed thugs.  And nobody would be on here trying to figure out what the white kid did wrong. 

[baddog]

7 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

I thinks it’s best to accept the facts on this case. What someone did 3 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with anything. From the beginning some became too eager to prove the victim was somehow not the victim. It just makes me wonder why are some trying so desperately to find fault in the victim. if the jogger was white the narrative would have been . Innocent teen on jog attack by vicious armed thugs.  And nobody would be on here trying to figure out what the white kid did wrong. 

Your story wouldn’t make national news. 

[CardinalBacker]

54 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

I thinks it’s best to accept the facts on this case. What someone did 3 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with anything. From the beginning some became too eager to prove the victim was somehow not the victim. It just makes me wonder why are some trying so desperately to find fault in the victim. if the jogger was white the narrative would have been . Innocent teen on jog attack by vicious armed thugs.  And nobody would be on here trying to figure out what the white kid did wrong. 

So what you’re saying is that if we found out that the shooter had been posting on white supremacist message boards three years ago, you would say that his postings from 3 years ago were in no way indicative of the way he felt about people of color today? Because I would disagree with you. 

[SmashMouth]

53 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

I thinks it’s best to accept the facts on this case. What someone did 3 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with anything. From the beginning some became too eager to prove the victim was somehow not the victim. It just makes me wonder why are some trying so desperately to find fault in the victim. if the jogger was white the narrative would have been . Innocent teen on jog attack by vicious armed thugs.  And nobody would be on here trying to figure out what the white kid did wrong. 

Look, read my posts on this topic. I have not said much more than that kid did not deserve to die; however, what someone did 3 years ago DOES have a bearing on what happened.

[THE DUDE]

56 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

I thinks it’s best to accept the facts on this case. What someone did 3 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with anything. From the beginning some became too eager to prove the victim was somehow not the victim. It just makes me wonder why are some trying so desperately to find fault in the victim. if the jogger was white the narrative would have been . Innocent teen on jog attack by vicious armed thugs.  And nobody would be on here trying to figure out what the white kid did wrong. 

can you list the facts of the case so i can get up to speed? 

[SmashMouth]

9 minutes ago, THE DUDE said:

can you list the facts of the case so i can get up to speed? 

https://youtu.be/-nKf0TW-L1M

[THE DUDE]

1 hour ago, SmashMouth said:

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thanks great video on putting a time line together.

i was really wanting to know what pamfam10 thought he knew as facts.

 

[SmashMouth]

41 minutes ago, THE DUDE said:

thanks great video on putting a time line together.

i was really wanting to know what pamfam10 thought he knew as facts.

 

Oh. Sorry. It was very informative as to the way things may have gone down. 

[LumRaiderFan]

4 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said:

I thinks it’s best to accept the facts on this case. What someone did 3 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with anything. From the beginning some became too eager to prove the victim was somehow not the victim. It just makes me wonder why are some trying so desperately to find fault in the victim. if the jogger was white the narrative would have been . Innocent teen on jog attack by vicious armed thugs.  And nobody would be on here trying to figure out what the white kid did wrong. 

smh...racist post.  The very thing you are accusing others of.

[PAMFAM10]

51 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

smh...racist post.  The very thing you are accusing others of.

Well tell me I’m crazy tell me. Had the jogger been white. Would the conversation be different. All i hear is what he was doing jogging there he seem to have a authority issue. Blaming the victim because 3 white men killing a unarmed black man just fit a narrative no one wants to believe exist. So rather than except that we blame the victim. 

[SmashMouth]

9 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

Well tell me I’m crazy tell me. Had the jogger been white. Would the conversation be different. All i hear is what he was doing jogging there he seem to have a authority issue. Blaming the victim because 3 white men killing a unarmed black man just fit a narrative no one wants to believe exist. So rather than except that we blame the victim. 

Yes. You’re crazy. Had the jogger been white, the killers wouldn’t be accused of racism. They’d still be in jail for murder. 

[5GallonBucket]

I ll keep saying it “poor decisions by all involved.”

When you make poor choices usually bad consequences ensue.

and if your consistent in those poor choices and nothing happens your emboldened to keep making them.

 

[CardinalBacker]

30 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

Well tell me I’m crazy tell me. Had the jogger been white. Would the conversation be different. All i hear is what he was doing jogging there he seem to have a authority issue. Blaming the victim because 3 white men killing a unarmed black man just fit a narrative no one wants to believe exist. So rather than except that we blame the victim. 

Fact. Statistics show that 500+ white people were killed by black people in 2016. That same year something like 229 black people were killed by white people. Those are the statistics reported. When you then factor in how many more White people there are in the US than black people, it’s even more stark.

That’s not evidence, those are facts. So... if I (White dude) am something like FIVE TIMES more likely to be murdered by a black person than a black person is likely to be murdered by a white person.... please help me understand why I should believe that black people are somehow in more danger?
 

They need you upset...when you start thinking for yourself it’s gonna be earth-shattering. 

[tvc184]

8 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Sorry, my uninformed friend......

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"Police and citizens often come into contact with each other for reasons other than criminal investigation. In addition to enforcing criminal law, police officers often engage in community service. Community service may include providing information and/or assistance to people in need, as well as offering youth education and coordinating community outreach efforts. In many communities, police officers network to establish partnerships between residents and the law enforcement agency. Community-oriented policing seeks to address the causes of crime and to reduce fear of social disorder through problem-solving strategies and police- community partnerships. Typically, it involves a greater use of foot and bicycle patrols and frequent meetings with community groups."

You see, "community policing" means a lot of things.... of which helping neighbors help neighbors.... I'll be honest.  I'm impressed that a cop would know enough about a neighborhood to realize that a retired officer/investigator lived nearby and would be able/willing to help.  But to you he's a "rogue cop."

Let me guess... if you have bothered to watch the video uploaded this morning of the previous encounter that Mr. Arbery had with law enforcement in 2017, you're initial reaction is to say "well, he still didn't deserve to be murdered" instead of thinking ...."jeez, this kid has a hard on for authority"  and that attitude means that you're a part of the problem.  

Partnership does not mean turning law enforcement authority to civilians. I am not sure where you drew that conclusion from that general community policing statement. In fact most community policing rules is for citizens to not be armed and to not take action except to be the eyes and ears of the cops. It is not and never has been... call the neighbor and let him take care if it. 
 

If you are a police officer, I would like to know what your experience is that led you to that conclusion. 

As far as me being part of the problem, I am in my 37th year as a police officer. I have been involved in 5 shooting incidents. I have been treated at the hospital about 10 times line of duty injuries including having my eyebrow glued back together in two places after being assaulted with a pipe during an arrest. 

 I was chosen to be one of the first federally funded community policing officers in the nation in the mid 1990s when Clinton signed the community policing bill into law. 

 I spent 10 years on SWAT with 8 a team leader. I have been declared an expert in gangs by a judge in a trial. I spent 3 years in detectives and 3 years in command of the gang unit. I have been to over 150 Homicide scenes and was the supervisor in charge of several of them. I have testified in front of a grand jury in an officer involved fatal shooting. 

 I currently teach the Penal Code, arrest-search and seizure (Constitution Law) and firearms  at the police academy. I have over 50 commendations including one from the US Marshal’s Service for helping to capture an escaped prisoner from CA who was about to shoot a deputy marshal and a few medals. 

i could go an but if you think I am soft on criminals and am part of the problem.......

[CardinalBacker]

5 hours ago, tvc184 said:

Partnership does not mean turning law enforcement authority to civilians. I am not sure where you drew that conclusion from that general community policing statement. In fact most community policing rules is for citizens to not be armed and to not take action except to be the eyes and ears of the cops. It is not and never has been... call the neighbor and let him take care if it. 
 

If you are a police officer, I would like to know what your experience is that led you to that conclusion. 

As far as me being part of the problem, I am in my 37th year as a police officer. I have been involved in 5 shooting incidents. I have been treated at the hospital about 10 times line of duty injuries including having my eyebrow glued back together in two places after being assaulted with a pipe during an arrest. 

 I was chosen to be one of the first federally funded community policing officers in the nation in the mid 1990s when Clinton signed the community policing bill into law. 

 I spent 10 years on SWAT with 8 a team leader. I have been declared an expert in gangs by a judge in a trial. I spent 3 years in detectives and 3 years in command of the gang unit. I have been to over 150 Homicide scenes and was the supervisor in charge of several of them. I have testified in front of a grand jury in an officer involved fatal shooting. 

 I currently teach the Penal Code, arrest-search and seizure (Constitution Law) and firearms  at the police academy. I have over 50 commendations including one from the US Marshal’s Service for helping to capture an escaped prisoner from CA who was about to shoot a deputy marshal and a few medals. 

i could go an but if you think I am soft on criminals and am part of the problem.......

Thanks for your explanation on your background. 

I’m going to go back and reread your posts... Quick question, though... Do you feel like your views are shared by most of your fellow LEOs, or are your views kinda unique in your field?

[SmashMouth]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

Thanks for your explanation on your background. 

I’m going to go back and reread your posts... Quick question, though... Do you feel like your views are shared by most of your fellow LEOs, or are your views kinda unique in your field?

Sometimes once the mic has been dropped on you that hard, you may just want to let it go...js

[CardinalBacker]

10 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

Sometimes once the mic has been dropped on you that hard, you may just want to let it go...js

Not really... I went back through his posts and It seems like his take is a little bit more “those guys were cowboys” than “they’re a bunch of psycho redneck vigilantes.” It was so subtle that I missed it. As an instructor, I also think that he would be particularly loathsome towards a LEO like the shooter’s dad that wouldn’t bother to keep up with his CEs. I’m also curious as to whether TVC would be as critical if the same exact scenario except that had been a uniformed officer getting out of a police cruiser instead. Because honestly, those howling these circumstances would still be howling if it had been a uniformed cop pulling the trigger... I have a feeling that the big problem is that TVC doesn’t feel like the thin blue line In his profile pic extends to retirees’ kids.

[SmashMouth]

15 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Sorry, my uninformed friend......

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"Police and citizens often come into contact with each other for reasons other than criminal investigation. In addition to enforcing criminal law, police officers often engage in community service. Community service may include providing information and/or assistance to people in need, as well as offering youth education and coordinating community outreach efforts. In many communities, police officers network to establish partnerships between residents and the law enforcement agency. Community-oriented policing seeks to address the causes of crime and to reduce fear of social disorder through problem-solving strategies and police- community partnerships. Typically, it involves a greater use of foot and bicycle patrols and frequent meetings with community groups."

You see, "community policing" means a lot of things.... of which helping neighbors help neighbors.... I'll be honest.  I'm impressed that a cop would know enough about a neighborhood to realize that a retired officer/investigator lived nearby and would be able/willing to help.  But to you he's a "rogue cop."

Let me guess... if you have bothered to watch the video uploaded this morning of the previous encounter that Mr. Arbery had with law enforcement in 2017, you're initial reaction is to say "well, he still didn't deserve to be murdered" instead of thinking ...."jeez, this kid has a hard on for authority"  and that attitude means that you're a part of the problem.  

What’s so freaking funny is you’re trying to explain the inner workings of LE to a guy that teaches and has worked in LE for probably 2/3 of his life! I can’t quit laughing. Most of the posters on here know tvc184 for what he is. You started out your post “Sorry, my uninformed friend” - instead you should have said, “I’m sorry my uniformed friend...”.  Too freakin hilarious. He and everyone else is laughing in your face.

[CardinalBacker]

Double