Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

[SmashMouth]

On 5/13/2020 at 2:18 PM, Big girl said:

Did you all watch the video? They persued him. Young white males are violent. They commit a majority of the school shootings.

What a stupid and racist comment. That’s like saying black males are murderous thieving bastard making people that usually end up in jail just because they lead the stats in all 4 of those categories. 

[CardinalBacker]

4 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

What a stupid and racist comment. That’s like saying black males are murderous thieving bastard making people that usually end up in jail just because they lead the stats in all 4 of those categories. 

I didn’t take her comment that way.  I’d just spoken about the high rates of violent crimes committed by young black men. She was countering my assertion, and she’s right... young white men are responsible for most mass shootings. 

[Kountzer]

5 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

He wasn’t killed over a possible burglary. He was killed in a struggle over a gun.  
 

I’d wholeheartedly agree with you if those men pulled up and just blasted the kid... but that’s not what happened and you all want to keep pretending like the physical attack that preceded the shooting didn’t occur. 
 

They tried to stop him 2 or 3 times before that.  You keep forgetting that.  If some psycho redneck vigilantes tried to stop me 3 times then roadblock me with a shotgun I'd fight too.  Maybe they have good intentions maybe not.  Many times folks have been taken out in the woods and disappeared.  It has happened all over the South.

[5GallonBucket]

7 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

He wasn’t killed over a possible burglary. He was killed in a struggle over a gun.  
 

I’d wholeheartedly agree with you if those men pulled up and just blasted the kid... but that’s not what happened and you all want to keep pretending like the physical attack that preceded the shooting didn’t occur. 
 

Exactly 

[5GallonBucket]

2 hours ago, Kountzer said:

They tried to stop him 2 or 3 times before that.  You keep forgetting that.  If some psycho redneck vigilantes tried to stop me 3 times then roadblock me with a shotgun I'd fight too.  Maybe they have good intentions maybe not.  Many times folks have been taken out in the woods and disappeared.  It has happened all over the South.

This goes further back then even that....also if I’m not mistaken did Ahmed have a history of some crimes.

[CardinalBacker]

2 hours ago, Kountzer said:

They tried to stop him 2 or 3 times before that.  You keep forgetting that.  If some psycho redneck vigilantes tried to stop me 3 times then roadblock me with a shotgun I'd fight too.  Maybe they have good intentions maybe not.  Many times folks have been taken out in the woods and disappeared.  It has happened all over the South.

That’s the first I’ve heard about them trying to stop him numerous times. Can you point me towards a source? 
 

I hope you’re right, because that’s just more evidence that the “psycho redneck vigilantes” didn’t intend to kill Mr Arbery or they would have shot him at their first encounter. Or at least locked and loaded their weapons, right?

That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about, though. The whole lie about folks being taken out into the woods and disappearing.  The only documented racially based white on black murder that I can think of happening in SETX in the last 30 or so years was the dragging death of James Byrd, Jr in Jasper. 
 

Now, we all heard the same “drug off into the woods story about the young man from Jasper who died up in Sabine County (Albert something... sorry that I’ve forgotten his last name)... but that story lost all of its steam when it was revealed that he died of natural causes.  The Leday young man that died in Lumberton was also thought to have been foul play by the Lumberton PD (Rev Quannel X came down and everything) but it also went quiet after it was revealed that he also died as a result of a heart attack if I remember correctly.  
 

Over and over you’re been led to believe stories about the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, “hands up, don’t shoot,” Trayvon Martin got killed for going to buy some skittles and Arizona Sweet Tea, and this guy got blasted while out jogging, etc.... I don’t blame you for feeling the way that you do... you’ve been lied to. 

Serious question. Who do you think is safer. A black man walking around Vidor at 2 in the morning or an overweight 47 year old white man like me walking around Carver Terrace at 2 in the morning?
 

That’s an honest question. 

[Kountzer]

3 hours ago, 5GallonBucket said:

This goes further back then even that....also if I’m not mistaken did Ahmed have a history of some crimes.

He didn't commit any crimes worthy of being murdered.

[Kountzer]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s the first I’ve heard about them trying to stop him numerous times. Can you point me towards a source? 
 

Read & keep up.

I hope you’re right, because that’s just more evidence that the “psycho redneck vigilantes” didn’t intend to kill Mr Arbery or they would have shot him at their first encounter. Or at least locked and loaded their weapons, right?

That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about, though. The whole lie about folks being taken out into the woods and disappearing.  The only documented racially based white on black murder that I can think of happening in SETX in the last 30 or so years was the dragging death of James Byrd, Jr in Jasper. 

People like you only believe the media when it suits your agenda.  
 

Now, we all heard the same “drug off into the woods story about the young man from Jasper who died up in Sabine County (Albert something... sorry that I’ve forgotten his last name)... but that story lost all of its steam when it was revealed that he died of natural causes.  The Leday young man that died in Lumberton was also thought to have been foul play by the Lumberton PD (Rev Quannel X came down and everything) but it also went quiet after it was revealed that he also died as a result of a heart attack if I remember correctly.  
 

American history is replete with stories of lynchings, bombings (Tulsa), kangaroo racist courts and justice.  Don't stop with disappearing in the woods.  Put it all on the table.

Over and over you’re been led to believe stories about the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, “hands up, don’t shoot,” Trayvon Martin got killed for going to buy some skittles and Arizona Sweet Tea, and this guy got blasted while out jogging, etc.... I don’t blame you for feeling the way that you do... you’ve been lied to. 

The easter bunny is fake, Sunday worship is fake, Christmas is fake.  Trayvon Martin is dead and gone.  Personally I don't see any real justice until the 2nd coming.   There will be no white supremacy and bigotry in heaven.  And all that is coming sooner than you think.

Serious question. Who do you think is safer. A black man walking around Vidor at 2 in the morning or an overweight 47 year old white man like me walking around Carver Terrace at 2 in the morning?

If you are walking around at 2am you get what you deserve.   I visit Beaumont & SE Texas from time to time.  I grew up around there.  I don't know where Carver Terrae is.
 

That’s an honest question.   Whatever.

 

 

[CardinalBacker]

6 hours ago, Kountzer said:

 

Seriously, though... I’ve read tons on the subject. I hope that’s obvious. Yours is the first report I’ve read that indicates that the men had tried to stop him “2 or 3 times” prior to the fatal encounter. One of us is mistaken, and I’d like to know if it is me. 
 

American history is also replete with a history of Indian attacks. Should “being scalped” be something I worry about? 
 

Lastly.... Cody Crabtree was killed in broad daylight at an apartment complex parking lot in North Beaumont a couple of years ago. Kara Teel was also murdered as she got out of her car at a different apartment complex a few years later. Last summer a Hispanic gentleman was shot to death under the Eastex Freeway after leaving Cici’s Pizza. What do all of these three murders have in common? All three victims were unarmed, and all were killed by young black men. 
 

I’m not talking about Brunswick, Georgia.... or Tallahassee, Florida.... or Ferguson, Missouri... I’m talking about the north side of Beaumont, Texas in the last 6 or 7 years. 
 

But keep believing that “hatred and bigotry” (you left out privilege) are the biggest problems in America. 

[Big girl]

On 5/13/2020 at 12:39 PM, CardinalBacker said:

I’m not talking bad about you here... but I think you’ve illustrated a way of thinking that is prevalent regarding these incidents. 
 

There’s a segment of our population that believes that violence is an acceptable response to many, many situations, and that the person who is being attacked should simply take their beating. People are regularly beaten to death. People will often die because of injuries sustained from being knocked out and striking their head on the ground. An unarmed assault has a reasonable expectation of a deadly outcome. 
 

No one has to submit to a beating. There is a very real possibility that the person you intend to harm may kill you for attempting to injure them. Those are facts. 
 

To step back and say “oh, he was unarmed” doesn’t mean anything. I’m under no obligation to engage in unarmed combat with anybody. The simple fact that you are trying to hurt me gives me the right to protect myself by any means necessary.  Period.  

 

[Big girl]

14 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s the first I’ve heard about them trying to stop him numerous times. Can you point me towards a source? 
 

I hope you’re right, because that’s just more evidence that the “psycho redneck vigilantes” didn’t intend to kill Mr Arbery or they would have shot him at their first encounter. Or at least locked and loaded their weapons, right?

That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about, though. The whole lie about folks being taken out into the woods and disappearing.  The only documented racially based white on black murder that I can think of happening in SETX in the last 30 or so years was the dragging death of James Byrd, Jr in Jasper. 
 

Now, we all heard the same “drug off into the woods story about the young man from Jasper who died up in Sabine County (Albert something... sorry that I’ve forgotten his last name)... but that story lost all of its steam when it was revealed that he died of natural causes.  The Leday young man that died in Lumberton was also thought to have been foul play by the Lumberton PD (Rev Quannel X came down and everything) but it also went quiet after it was revealed that he also died as a result of a heart attack if I remember correctly.  
 

Over and over you’re been led to believe stories about the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, “hands up, don’t shoot,” Trayvon Martin got killed for going to buy some skittles and Arizona Sweet Tea, and this guy got blasted while out jogging, etc.... I don’t blame you for feeling the way that you do... you’ve been lied to. 

Serious question. Who do you think is safer. A black man walking around Vidor at 2 in the morning or an overweight 47 year old white man like me walking around Carver Terrace at 2 in the morning?
 

That’s an honest question. 

You. Hell we are not safe in our homes.

[baddog]

Did anyone see the security camera video of a young man standing over a sleeping teen girl in Kansas? He was just there having some fun. If someone in the house was armed and took him out, would we hear that he did nothing to justify being murdered? Heck no.

How about it Big Girl. If this was your daughter, could you kill this guy or would you try to talk some sense into him? 
 

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[CardinalBacker]

2 hours ago, Big girl said:

 

We'd talked about that yesterday.  Once again, the media is twisting the narrative.  The Dad (who IS a doofus, apparently) had  not been taking his Continuing Education (CE) courses to maintain his peace officer's certification.  That actually happened twice.  There was a period of 8 years (2006-2014) in which he didn't complete his CE hours and he had his peace officer's license suspended in 2014.  He requested and received a waiver and got his accreditation reinstated.  He once again lost his certification in 2019 for not completing the required hours in 2018... this time he worked in a diminished capacity until his early retirement.  

The twisting comes in like this.... "Ex-detective charged in death of Ahmaud Arbery lost power to make arrests after skipping use-of-force training."  The truth is that he didn't lose his license after skipping use-of-force training... he lost his power to make arrests after skipping ALL of his required training.  But if you're pushing the narrative that this guy is a psychotic redneck vigilante, "losing power to make arrests after skipping use-of-force training" has a nice ring to it.  The other fact comes that you don't HAVE to be a certified peace officer to be a criminal investigator in Georgia.  You can still do your job, but you just don't have the power to arrest anybody or request warrants, etc...  So the news is basically slamming him for losing a license he didn't need.  Just so you know I'm not making this up... here are links.

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Section (c) states that you criminal investigators don't have the right to arrest, etc unless they have police officer certification

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And these (c) are the qualifications to be a criminal investigator in Georgia.  You don't HAVE to have your peace officer's certification. 

I had kind of wondered about that subject.  Every investigator that I can think of is a former LEO and their certifications here in Texas are sponsored by a friendly Sheriff or police chief.  I had been wondering if this guy was still certified, and if so who was carrying his certification.  I guess it's becoming obvious that he no longer had his peace officer's certification.  

It also brings into question any actual "police work" that he may have performed during the time that his license was suspended.  Not behind on CEs, but suspended.  If he was making arrests or requesting search warrants during the time his license was suspended, then YES... there would be real problems with those particular prosecutions. 

[baddog]

14 hours ago, Kountzer said:

He didn't commit any crimes worthy of being murdered.

There is no justification for murder. Self defense is not murder. 

[THE DUDE]

15 hours ago, Kountzer said:

He didn't commit any crimes worthy of being murdered.

it is sad to watch the media control the weak minded people of the world.

[PAMFAM10]

You can kill A black man on video and still Have the majority of Non blacks in this country take your side. He might of had a knife he might of not just been jogging he might was going to somehow put in danger the 3 armed men chasing him. You can’t make this up only in America. As a black man when i speak on race I’m the racist. If this was 3 blacks guys who shot a white teen jogging. We wouldn’t be talking bout but white on white crime is the biggest issue. This thread would be full with way different type of replies . Hell quick history lesson will tell you exactly what would have happened if the tables where turnt. It get to the point where people would rather convince themself that 3 grown men chasing then gunning down a man are somehow the victims. I know it feeds into the narrative nobody wants to believe. I wonder why so late on the charges i wonder how many people in position swron to protect and serve seen this video and did nothing. But if I say anything about this case have anything to do with the color of the one and only victim. I’m racist . 

[stevenash]

Are all shooting committed by whites against blacks or blacks against whites hate crimes?

[CardinalBacker]

30 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

You can kill A black man on video and still Have the majority of Non blacks in this country take your side. He might of had a knife he might of not just been jogging he might was going to somehow put in danger the 3 armed men chasing him. You can’t make this up only in America. As a black man when i speak on race I’m the racist. If this was 3 blacks guys who shot a white teen jogging. We wouldn’t be talking bout but white on white crime is the biggest issue. This thread would be full with way different type of replies . Hell quick history lesson will tell you exactly what would have happened if the tables where turnt. It get to the point where people would rather convince themself that 3 grown men chasing then gunning down a man are somehow the victims. I know it feeds into the narrative nobody wants to believe. I wonder why so late on the charges i wonder how many people in position swron to protect and serve seen this video and did nothing. But if I say anything about this case have anything to do with the color of the one and only victim. I’m racist . 

It's all about perspective, my friend.  I can speak for no one but myself, but I was disgusted when I saw that video.  That's something no one wants to see.  The big question isn't why the man was killed, but why do we all see the same video and have different opinions about what we just witnessed.  While I recognize your point of view is firmly rooted-that you've seen what you needed to see and you believe a heinous murder was committed and that the shooter and all associated should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.  FWIW, I also don't at all believe that the 3 white men involved are at all victims in this matter... This incident isn't cut-and-dried. There is more than one side to the story. It doesn't start and end in that 40 second video clip.  I have problems with the 2 month delay before deciding to present the case to a grand jury. One of the former DAs also stated that the Grand Jury in that county isn't meeting because of the Covid pandemic and blamed the delay on that.  That may be true, but I think that they should have long since been preparing to present the case to a grand jury regardless.  I think that the first and second DA were bordering on protecting the accused in this case.  But what you have now could also be a stretch.  Now you have two men who were obviously involved in a killing that has questionable motives, but they are being held without bond.  Are they a flight risk?  Are they likely to do it again? Those are the two questions considered at bail hearings.  They're being held without bail to soothe the masses.  And I really don't care.  They did their part(s) to bring about this situation.  

In an earlier post I detailed three different murders in Beaumont.  White man, white woman, Mexican man.... all killed by black men.  The important thing to note is that I don't believe that they were killed for the color of their skin. They were killed as a part of some other criminal act.... If race played a part, it wasn't the only reason.  That's just how I see those incidents.  

On the other hand, any time a black person loses their life at the hands of another race, the black community assumes that the crime was racial at its core.  It doesn't matter what the circumstances of the loss of life were.... it's because he was black and the killer should be sentence for a "hate crime."  

That same attitude is prevalent in all areas of life and it's what I believe is the primary reason that the black community has struggled to rise with along with every other ethnic group in the U.S.  If a person of color loses their job... it's because they were black.  The 18 year old man being prosecuted in Jasper for sexual assault right now.... it's because he's black.  I challenge you to go to kjas's facebook page and read the comments and accusations being thrown around.  It's horrific, and mostly racial in nature.  Surprisingly enough, there isn't anybody posting anything negative about the race of the young suspect.... It's almost purely the supporters of the young man claiming (surprise) that the prosecution is racial.  

I do have a serious question for you to ask yourself, though.  It's obvious that you have strong feelings about this particular case.   Are you as concerned about the killings that happen there in Port Arthur when there isn't a white person involved?  Do they bring out the same strong feelings that you have about this case?  If those killings don't bother you like this one in Georgia did, I'd be curious to know why.

 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, baddog said:

There is no justification for murder. Self defense is not murder. 

I don't think anybody has a valid claim of self defense in this matter.   It basically goes something like "if you created the situation, you don't get to claim self defense."  To illustrate, I can't get mad at my neighbor about his dogs, grab my shotgun and head over there, then shoot him when he gets his gun out and still claim self defense.  I kinda set the table, if you know what I mean. 

My un-informed opinion is that you could make a good case for whatever their version of manslaughter is out there and should be able to get a conviction.  I worry that their prosecutors will go too hard in the paint and be all "capital murder or bust" and end up with those guys escaping punishment for the role that they played in the killing.  But I also don't see this as a racially motivated crime.  I haven't seen one bit of evidence that would indicate that race was a factor at all, much less the main motivating factor.  I'll need to see some memberships in a hate group, incriminating text messages, reports of hateful behavior by friends/family of the accused, etc...  We just haven't seen that YET.  The longer that this goes on without that evidence popping up, the less likely we are to see it, IMO.

[Big girl]

On 5/13/2020 at 5:43 PM, SmashMouth said:

Pick sides if you want, but no way in Hell should the young man have been confronted with a shotgun if all he did was snoop around a construction site. Cmon man! I carry 24/7, but if I pull my weapon it’s with the intention of killing someone. I’m not prepared to kill someone that I “suspect may have” done something unlawful at a construction site. What’s the worst thing. Might have stole a hammer? He’s jogging down the road for Christ’s sake! 

I agree

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, stevenash said:

Are all shooting committed by whites against blacks or blacks against whites hate crimes?

Not by definition, but some kinda feel that way.  I think hate crime legislation is laughable.  Does it really somehow make it worse one way or the other if you're killed for your wallet or the color of your skin?

[Kountzer]

12 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

It's all about perspective, my friend.  I can speak for no one but myself, but I was disgusted when I saw that video.  That's something no one wants to see.  The big question isn't why the man was killed, but why do we all see the same video and have different opinions about what we just witnessed.  While I recognize your point of view is firmly rooted-that you've seen what you needed to see and you believe a heinous murder was committed and that the shooter and all associated should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.  FWIW, I also don't at all believe that the 3 white men involved are at all victims in this matter... This incident isn't cut-and-dried. There is more than one side to the story. It doesn't start and end in that 40 second video clip.  I have problems with the 2 month delay before deciding to present the case to a grand jury. One of the former DAs also stated that the Grand Jury in that county isn't meeting because of the Covid pandemic and blamed the delay on that.  That may be true, but I think that they should have long since been preparing to present the case to a grand jury regardless.  I think that the first and second DA were bordering on protecting the accused in this case.  But what you have now could also be a stretch.  Now you have two men who were obviously involved in a killing that has questionable motives, but they are being held without bond.  Are they a flight risk?  Are they likely to do it again? Those are the two questions considered at bail hearings.  They're being held without bail to soothe the masses.  And I really don't care.  They did their part(s) to bring about this situation.  

In an earlier post I detailed three different murders in Beaumont.  White man, white woman, Mexican man.... all killed by black men.  The important thing to note is that I don't believe that they were killed for the color of their skin. They were killed as a part of some other criminal act.... If race played a part, it wasn't the only reason.  That's just how I see those incidents.  

I don't have the time to track every crime committed by black men, or any other person regardless of their color.  That is some warped thinking, downright insane.  You have some deep seated racial issues dude.  You need clinical counseling.  I definitely don't put much stock in online commentary.  99% of the time its is a bunch of inane gibberish not worth passing through my mind. As for black people blaming every crime and every murder on race, that is a flat out lie.

 

On the other hand, any time a black person loses their life at the hands of another race, the black community assumes that the crime was racial at its core.  It doesn't matter what the circumstances of the loss of life were.... it's because he was black and the killer should be sentence for a "hate crime."  

That same attitude is prevalent in all areas of life and it's what I believe is the primary reason that the black community has struggled to rise with along with every other ethnic group in the U.S.  If a person of color loses their job... it's because they were black.  The 18 year old man being prosecuted in Jasper for sexual assault right now.... it's because he's black.  I challenge you to go to kjas's facebook page and read the comments and accusations being thrown around.  It's horrific, and mostly racial in nature.  Surprisingly enough, there isn't anybody posting anything negative about the race of the young suspect.... It's almost purely the supporters of the young man claiming (surprise) that the prosecution is racial.  

I do have a serious question for you to ask yourself, though.  It's obvious that you have strong feelings about this particular case.   Are you as concerned about the killings that happen there in Port Arthur when there isn't a white person involved?  Do they bring out the same strong feelings that you have about this case?  If those killings don't bother you like this one in Georgia did, I'd be curious to know why.

 

 

[CardinalBacker]

15 minutes ago, Kountzer said:

I don't have the time to track every crime committed by black men, or any other person regardless of their color.  That is some warped thinking, downright insane.  You have some deep seated racial issues dude.  You need clinical counseling.  I definitely don't put much stock in online commentary.  99% of the time its is a bunch of inane gibberish not worth passing through my mind. As for black people blaming every crime and every murder on race, that is a flat out lie.

Two of those people I knew personally.... and I drove through that intersection at Dowlen at the Eastex that Saturday about 10 minutes before the young Hispanic man was murdered at that spot.  We ate at La Cantina and they wouldn't let us leave the area afterwards because of the ongoing investigation.... the shooters had fled and they were searching the area.  And I still don't believe that any of the three were racial incidents. They were either robberies or fights that got out of hand. Race had nothing to do with any of them, in my opinion. 

And I don't think I'm wrong about the black community as a whole believing EVERYTHING is about race.  Nobody has come up with ONE SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that would point towards this shooting in Georgia being race related, other than the fact that the shooter and deceased were of different races.  NOTHING.  Yet that's the headline and belief held everywhere.  

 

[Kountzer]

And I don't think I'm wrong about the black community as a whole believing EVERYTHING is about race.  Nobody has come up with ONE SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that would point towards this shooting in Georgia being race related, other than the fact that the shooter and deceased were of different races.  NOTHING.  Yet that's the headline and belief held everywhere.  

Call it what you want but if the roles were reversed and a black ex police officer and his son chased down a white jogger because he trepassed on a construction sight.  Then tried to stop him twice.  Got ahead of him, stopped in the middle of the street, the son jumps out with a shot gun, and they tried to execute a citizens arrest.   And the guy ends up shot and killed, they would of been in jail in less than 24 hours, if they even made it to jail.  They would be in a cell waiting a trial and and at least life in prison, if not the death penalty.   Now if you want to say I blame everything on race go ahead.  That's your cockeyed opinion and you are entitled to it.

[baddog]

52 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

I don't think anybody has a valid claim of self defense in this matter.   It basically goes something like "if you created the situation, you don't get to claim self defense."  To illustrate, I can't get mad at my neighbor about his dogs, grab my shotgun and head over there, then shoot him when he gets his gun out and still claim self defense.  I kinda set the table, if you know what I mean. 

My un-informed opinion is that you could make a good case for whatever their version of manslaughter is out there and should be able to get a conviction.  I worry that their prosecutors will go too hard in the paint and be all "capital murder or bust" and end up with those guys escaping punishment for the role that they played in the killing.  But I also don't see this as a racially motivated crime.  I haven't seen one bit of evidence that would indicate that race was a factor at all, much less the main motivating factor.  I'll need to see some memberships in a hate group, incriminating text messages, reports of hateful behavior by friends/family of the accused, etc...  We just haven't seen that YET.  The longer that this goes on without that evidence popping up, the less likely we are to see it, IMO.

I was just trying to correct his term of “murder”  where he should have used homicide. Murder is never justified whereas there is justifiable homicide.