Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

[CardinalBacker]

47 minutes ago, Big girl said:

You know things would be different. Did you read Cardinal HBacker's initial statement on this thread. That says it all. Blacks are not more violent than whites. We are just arrested, charged and sentenced more when compared to our white counterparts when committing the same crimes. Walking on grass or visiting a building site is not punishable by death. My cousin was riding in a car with a white kid who had drugs in his car. My cousin, who was older was kicked off of the basketball team.  The other kid remained on the team. My cousin was told that he should've set a better example even though the drugs we're not his.

 

Il

What you just said is completely untrue. Black people commit more violent crimes, therefore they are arrested and convicted more often. That’s not a racial disparity, that’s a fact.  
 

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50% of the violent crimes in America are committed by African Americans, but they only make up 13% of the total population. That is an indisputable fact. If you can’t admit that, you’re part of the problem. 
 

There are plenty of inequities to discuss... crack cocaine was punished more heavily than powder coke. That led to more blacks being incarcerated for longer periods... that’s been addressed now, though. Some would argue that tougher sentences for meth are adversely affecting white kids. 
I know a man personally that just got 17 years in Tyler County for a first felony meth possession. He had 7 grams on him.  It’s ridiculous. But it’s not racial.  
 

I have no idea about your cousin’s situation, but my guess is that there is more to the story.  There always is.  

 

Edit... And those figures are low... those are just the violent charges that resulted in convictions. When you realize that in places like New Orleans, Chicago, and Miami clear barely half of their murder cases (whose victims are typically black and whose killers were likely black as well, the percentage of violent crimes committed by black people would be even higher. 
 

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Can you point me at another area where people of any race other than black are killed in such astonishing numbers, AND whose killers go unpunished? Because that’s what you’re mad about right? These racist cops going unpunished?

[5GallonBucket]

55 minutes ago, Kountzer said:

 

Oh yeah it has...

read hebrews

[WOSgrad]

1 hour ago, Big girl said:

You know things would be different. Did you read Cardinal HBacker's initial statement on this thread. That says it all. Blacks are not more violent than whites. We are just arrested, charged and sentenced more when compared to our white counterparts when committing the same crimes. Walking on grass or visiting a building site is not punishable by death. My cousin was riding in a car with a white kid who had drugs in his car. My cousin, who was older was kicked off of the basketball team.  The other kid remained on the team. My cousin was told that he should've set a better example even though the drugs we're not his.

 

Il

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[Kountzer]

24 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

Oh yeah it has...

read hebrews

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

[SmashMouth]

1 hour ago, Kountzer said:

1. If you’re talking about Sunday, the original true Sabbath was on Saturday.

The original sabbath still is on the 7th day aka Saturday.  Nothing has changed.

Duh. 

[SmashMouth]

2 hours ago, Big girl said:

You know things would be different. Did you read Cardinal HBacker's initial statement on this thread. That says it all. Blacks are not more violent than whites. We are just arrested, charged and sentenced more when compared to our white counterparts when committing the same crimes. Walking on grass or visiting a building site is not punishable by death. My cousin was riding in a car with a white kid who had drugs in his car. My cousin, who was older was kicked off of the basketball team.  The other kid remained on the team. My cousin was told that he should've set a better example even though the drugs we're not his.

 

Il

Heresay and lies. 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, WOSgrad said:

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What’s the tie-in? I don’t think I want to watch that video. It sounds like that kid has some problems. 

[WOSgrad]

8 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

What’s the tie-in? I don’t think I want to watch that video. It sounds like that kid has some problems. 

Don't worry, the story that I chose does not play the video.

[LumRaiderFan]

On 5/19/2020 at 10:18 PM, PAMFAM10 said:

Well tell me I’m crazy tell me. Had the jogger been white. Would the conversation be different. All i hear is what he was doing jogging there he seem to have a authority issue. Blaming the victim because 3 white men killing a unarmed black man just fit a narrative no one wants to believe exist. So rather than except that we blame the victim. 

Had the jogger been white, would you have been concerned about him?

[tvc184]

7 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Breaking Update....

It’s been announced that the 911 caller who filmed the shooting has also been arrested and charged with felony murder. I really, REALLY hope that the authorities have some evidence that they’ve been holding back, because it’s a long way from calling 911/following/filming a shooting to being guilty of felony murder. 

I have a feeling that this prosecutor is just as bad as the first two, but in the opposite way. 
 

 

From what I have read, he was on the phone with the shooters, telling them which way Arbery was running, etc. 

To that extent, he helped track Arbery down. That makes him part of the murder charge. 

 I don’t feel like looking up GA law at this hour but I might compare Texas law. There are two ways this could be Murder (or any crime) in Texas. If a person took any part in any crime, he can be charged in the crime. Texas doesn’t use the law of accomplices. If you take any part, you are responsible for the entire crime. So if the two guys charged with Murder were assisted in any way by the video guy, he can be charged and that could include a phone call. 

 The other way is organized crime. In Texas Organized Crime requires at least 3 people who participate in certain crimes. Unlike being charged directly with taking part in a crime (like making a phone call), in OC the parties can be at an at an arm length relationship and the parties don’t  even have to know one another. For example if two guys break into cars and one of them sells the stolen property to w third guy. There one that helps break into cars doesn’t know who is buying the property. The one that buys the knowingly stolen property doesn’t even know the name of the guy that helps his friend. So it doesn’t matter if they know each other or how many people are involved or exactly what crimes are committed. If three or more people end up in the same enterprise, they can all be charged. 

[baddog]

8 hours ago, Big girl said:

You know things would be different. Did you read Cardinal HBacker's initial statement on this thread. That says it all. Blacks are not more violent than whites. We are just arrested, charged and sentenced more when compared to our white counterparts when committing the same crimes. Walking on grass or visiting a building site is not punishable by death. My cousin was riding in a car with a white kid who had drugs in his car. My cousin, who was older was kicked off of the basketball team.  The other kid remained on the team. My cousin was told that he should've set a better example even though the drugs we're not his.

 

Il

Neither is being carjacked or robbed. If a person gives up their car or their money, why should they die. You always excuse the criminal. Why is that?

[CardinalBacker]

4 hours ago, tvc184 said:

From what I have read, he was on the phone with the shooters, telling them which way Arbery was running, etc. 

To that extent, he helped track Arbery down. That makes him part of the murder charge. 

 I don’t feel like looking up GA law at this hour but I might compare Texas law. There are two ways this could be Murder (or any crime) in Texas. If a person took any part in any crime, he can be charged in the crime. Texas doesn’t use the law of accomplices. If you take any part, you are responsible for the entire crime. So if the two guys charged with Murder were assisted in any way by the video guy, he can be charged and that could include a phone call. 

 The other way is organized crime. In Texas Organized Crime requires at least 3 people who participate in certain crimes. Unlike being charged directly with taking part in a crime (like making a phone call), in OC the parties can be at an at an arm length relationship and the parties don’t  even have to know one another. For example if two guys break into cars and one of them sells the stolen property to w third guy. There one that helps break into cars doesn’t know who is buying the property. The one that buys the knowingly stolen property doesn’t even know the name of the guy that helps his friend. So it doesn’t matter if they know each other or how many people are involved or exactly what crimes are committed. If three or more people end up in the same enterprise, they can all be charged. 

I see what you’re saying. It seems like a stretch to me based on the limited information at hand. By your theory you could charge the guy that sold the gas that was used in the pickup to chase the man who was shot. 
 

It reminds me of the George Zimmerman case and makes me wonder if the 911 dispatcher told him to stand down. 
 

Gut feel from you... does it SEEM to you like the state is reaching at this point? That’s my impression, but I’m probably biased. 

[Big girl]

On 5/20/2020 at 3:27 PM, tvc184 said:

Each state has different laws on the way that cases are presented. In many controversial media trials they often accuse the DA of overcharging, thereby guaranteeing an acquittal. Like they knew that they could not get the death penalty case proven but they went with Capital Murder anyway, knowing that the jury would acquire whereas a manslaughter case might have gotten a conviction and 20 year sentence.  Or just the opposite, the DA might go for a lesser charge just to make sure of a conviction when a higher charge might have been valid  

 In Texas usually lesser included crimes are given as options to the jury. Like a DA might go for Capital Murder but the jury didn’t believe that the DA proved another felony (robbery, sexual assault, etc.) but did prove the cause of death. The jury could find the the defendant guilty of murder and not Capital. They might even go down to Manslaughter. The judge in his charge/instructions to the jury can give lesser included offenses that can be considered.  

 So I don’t think the bar too high is valid in Texas  

 According to cases that I have seen in the media, apparently some states don’t give that option. GA? No clue. 
 

Teaching at the police academy I usually give a scenario and ask all crimes (lesser included) that they can come up with just to make them think of the elements of a crime. 

 Here is the scenario... A man walks into a convenience store, demands money, gets some out of the register and then shoots and kills the clerk. Obviously the DA will go with Capital Murder but did the guy commit any other crimes. 
Murder, Aggravated Assault with Deadly Weapon, Agg Assault with Serious Bodily Injury, Assault with Bodily Injury, Assault by Offensive Contact, Assault by Threat, Agg Robbery, Robbery, Theft, Unlawful Carrying Weapon on Alcohol Licenses Premises, Disorderly Conduct Discharging Firearm in Public Place, Disorderly Conduct Displaying Weapon Calculated to Alarm.......

Didn't they charge those guys with unlawful detainment; as well ?

[Big girl]

2 hours ago, baddog said:

Neither is being carjacked or robbed. If a person gives up their car or their money, why should they die. You always excuse the criminal. Why is that?

Was Aubry a criminal? What crime did he commit?

[Big girl]

On 5/16/2020 at 5:07 PM, BS Wildcats said:

Why is that?  I don’t have stats, so I’ll ask this.  Do young black males commit more of this type of crime?

Blacks are arrested, charged, and convicted more than their white counterparts when committing the same crime. Of course the numbers are going to be higher. If a white kids is walking near a school, should someone shoot him, because he might be a mass shooter up to no good?

[Big girl]

14 hours ago, baddog said:

Stop trying to play the flip flop game. I honor none of those people and call them the scumbags that they truly are. Your people do honor the gang bangers. Don’t try to deny it. 

I remember Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacey, but I don’t honor them. You are confused with memory and honor. 

Your people? So you are speaking for all black people? I don't honor gangbangers

[CardinalBacker]

10 minutes ago, Big girl said:

Blacks are arrested, charged, and convicted more than their white counterparts when committing the same crime. Of course the numbers are going to be higher. If a white kids is walking near a school, should someone shoot him, because he might be a mass shooter up to no good?

That might be true, but it doesn’t get around the FACT that black people commit more violent crimes. You just can’t admit that. 
I guess there are thousand of White kids killing each other in gang wars, but the white kids just don’t get convicted is your argument?

South side of Chicago... Little Haiti in Miami, NOLA, The Fifth Ward in Houston... South Central LA... Port Arthur, Texas. Please name me an area that is as violent and otherwise unsafe as those that is primarily inhabited by non-blacks.
 

Your school shooter argument is not relevant. But unlike you, I immediately conceded that way more mass killings are committed by White kids.  You have an inability to recognize fault in your own. 
 

But to answer your question.... if the police got a call that they suspected a mass shooter and they rushed to the scene and a kid was already there, wearing a trench coat and didn’t comply with police instructions and he ended up getting shot and he turned out to be unarmed... I would not assume he’d been killed for the color of his skin. 
 

And that’s the whole point missed my you, Kountzer, Lebron, etc....

[baddog]

1 hour ago, Big girl said:

Your people? So you are speaking for all black people? I don't honor gangbangers

I remember the gang banger who showed up to Jack in the Box on MLK with his bullet-proof vest on, tried to run over a police officer and was killed while doing so. That was assault with a deadly weapon on a police officer. Next day there were flowers lining up Washington Blvd. honoring the POS. Yes, as a whole, I’m addressing the black community. Just because you forgot to lay a wreath doesn’t disprove my point. 

[baddog]

2 hours ago, Big girl said:

Was Aubry a criminal? What crime did he commit?

He has been in trouble with the law before, even on that same property, so that does make him a criminal element whether you agree or not. 

[THE DUDE]

55 minutes ago, baddog said:

He has been in trouble with the law before, even on that same property, so that does make him a criminal element whether you agree or not. 

i believe he was currently on probations and could be a reason he did not want to be identified :  When he was in high school, Arbery was sentenced to five years probation as a first offender on charges of carrying a weapon on campus and several counts of obstructing a law enforcement officer. He was convicted of probation violation in 2018 after he was charged with shoplifting, court documents show.  

 

[SmashMouth]

15 minutes ago, THE DUDE said:

i believe he was currently on probations and could be a reason he did not want to be identified :  When he was in high school, Arbery was sentenced to five years probation as a first offender on charges of carrying a weapon on campus and several counts of obstructing a law enforcement officer. He was convicted of probation violation in 2018 after he was charged with shoplifting, court documents show.  

 

That’s pretty damning evidence of character. We’re did that info come from? Enquiring minds want to know...

[THE DUDE]

8 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

That’s pretty damning evidence of character. We’re did that info come from? Enquiring minds want to know...

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[SmashMouth]

13 minutes ago, THE DUDE said:

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Thx!

[CardinalBacker]

17 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

That’s pretty damning evidence of character. We’re did that info come from? Enquiring minds want to know...

It's out there... I agree that it shows bad judgment is doesn't indicate that Arbery was a rabid dog. I thought that DA Barnhill was wrong in his letter of recusal for pointing out Arbery's family's troubles with the law.  THAT has no relevance whatsoever and is smearing the victim at it worst. 

 

One interesting point was made, though.  The DA indicated that the first shot could have been self-inflicted.  If somebody is holding a gun with their finger on the trigger, and somebody else grabs the barrel and yanks, that gun is to fire.  It doesn't change anything and had nothing to do with the next two shots, but I thought that was an interesting point.  Very defense attorney-esque for a prosecutor, in my opinion.   Just because Arbery was shot through the right palm,  I don't think it could be determined whether or not the hands were up in a defensive position or grabbing a gun barrel.  But for the prosecutor to go that route indicates that he was in all likeliehood doing his investigation in a manner that would end with a desired result of the Father/Son not being charged. 

[SmashMouth]

4 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

It's out there... I agree that it shows bad judgment is doesn't indicate that Arbery was a rabid dog. I thought that DA Barnhill was wrong in his letter of recusal for pointing out Arbery's family's troubles with the law.  THAT has no relevance whatsoever and is smearing the victim at it worst. 

 

One interesting point was made, though.  The DA indicated that the first shot could have been self-inflicted.  If somebody is holding a gun with their finger on the trigger, and somebody else grabs the barrel and yanks, that gun is to fire.  It doesn't change anything and had nothing to do with the next two shots, but I thought that was an interesting point.  Very defense attorney-esque for a prosecutor, in my opinion.   Just because Arbery was shot through the right palm,  I don't think it could be determined whether or not the hands were up in a defensive position or grabbing a gun barrel.  But for the prosecutor to go that route indicates that he was in all likeliehood doing his investigation in a manner that would end with a desired result of the Father/Son not being charged. 

Silly twists at every turn. Crazy stuff man...