Should Port Neches Change Their Mascot

[CardinalBacker]

3 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

No, no, no.

1st, No color description needed, we are all just people. You dont know what he knows, so dont assume. As well, how do know what native americans think?

2nd, that flag means people refuse to leave the past in its place. There is no place for it in modern society.

1.  I’m not claiming to know what Native Americans think... Santa is the one claiming that things are offensive to Native American as well as blacks people. Either he’s the first bi-racial Indian/black ever (because apparently they don’t like each other very much, lol), or he’s speaking out on something for which he has no basis. 
2. “Leave the past in the past” they cry.... unless they want reparations. 
 

The bottom line is this. The flag didn’t bother anybody way back around the time that PN got that letter from the Cherokees. People who were never oppressed decided to be offended by it in these modern times. 
 

If I can’t possibly understand what the n-word means to black people, by the same token they can’t possibly understand what that flag means to Southerners. 
 

The truth of the matter is that it isn’t just the rebel flag. It’s the American flag, the national anthem, the founding fathers, Christianity.... the left wants to destroy every single bit of it.  It’s not some crazy theory... they’ll scream it in your face. 

[WOSdrummer99]

19 minutes ago, png9mon said:

May God Bless All of The Schools, Teams & Mascots as we go into this trying time & a new school year.  May we work together to see that the children are well educated, good citizens & proud of their schools, communities & traditions.

This I can agree with. No matter how much respect is givin, dont think that your traditions wont be challenged. Consider getting a new letter every year?

[WOSdrummer99]

24 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

The flag didn’t bother anybody way back around the time that PN got that letter from the Cherokees. People who were never oppressed decided to be offended by it in these modern times. 

It should have bothered people the day it was made extinct at Appomattox Court House. They lost, it's a loser's flag. It should be like waving the white flag to surrender. (Hmmm never thought a out that one)

24 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

The truth of the matter is that it isn’t just the rebel flag. It’s the American flag, the national anthem, the founding fathers, Christianity.... the left wants to destroy every single bit of it.  It’s not some crazy theory... they’ll scream it in your face. 

I agree that these should be protected. But focus on what we value today. Defending the rebel flag is a losing battle in the War of good vs evil.

This is off topic, just as I predicted.

Sorry my prideful purple friends.

[png9mon]

12 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

This I can agree with. No matter how much respect is givin, dont think that your traditions wont be challenged. Consider getting a new letter every year?

The liberals want our country to get a new Constitution each year for their so-called "politically correct society."

I think the Constitution we have now works just fine.  So does the letter from The Cherokee Nation it works just fine.

[NetCat]

1 hour ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

I had the same thought about the recent name change for WOS defense. But many of yall just had to show out... now its locked and cant even be discussed. Maybe this will go the same route.

Hey don't put me in with those guys lol. 

[WOSdrummer99]

13 minutes ago, png9mon said:

The liberals want our country to get a new Constitution each year for their so-called "politically correct society."

I think the Constitution we have now works just fine.  So does the letter from The Cherokee Nation it works just fine.

Honestly, the political thing is too far out there. You may feel the letter is enough. Many Mustangs fans thought the same thing. It will happen eventually. That's why I suggest making a yearly event and another tradition to build upon for the future. Work together with Cherokee Nation, if they so choose, to move forward with a unified society. That would be a great lesson for the kids. Thats who it's really about anyway. Not the old school Alumni who cant accept change.

[WOSdrummer99]

11 minutes ago, NetCat said:

Hey don't put me in with those guys lol. 

My apologies. I understand. "Yall" wasn't directed to you personally. Just quoted you to build upon your original post. It happens.

[NetCat]

6 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

My apologies. I understand. "Yall" wasn't directed to you personally. Just quoted you to build upon your original post. It happens.

I understand. No offense taken. 

[png9mon]

8 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

Honestly, the political thing is too far out there. You may feel the letter is enough. Many Mustangs fans thought the same thing. It will happen eventually. That's why I suggest making a yearly event and another tradition to build upon for the future. Work together with Cherokee Nation, if they so choose, to move forward with a unified society. That would be a great lesson for the kids. Thats who it's really about anyway. Not the old school Alumni who cant accept change.

The Cherokee honor all previous historical proclamations made by their Head Chief.  It would be an insult to their ancestors to reverse that proclamation & an insult to that Chief to address it further.  The Cherokee Nation & our Student Body, that's who it is really about, regardless of my "old school" beliefs.  Honor, Pride & Tradition does not, in any way, need to accept change.  In fact, it should most assuredly, be the spirit which carries all PNG faithful into the future. 

I value your opinion, that change is necessary.  I have nothing but respect for WO-S Mustangs & their legacy.

I speak speak my truth, that, in this instance, change is not necessary.  God Bless!

[ladybug33]

15 hours ago, BADSANTA said:

Has then been brought to the table? Is a caucasian person dancing in a Native American outfit and head dress offensive to Native Americans? 

Sometimes it’s hard to not comment on certain topics that are posted in a thread like this one. With that being said, I am fine with PNG keeping their mascot name. (JMO) I was also okay with my school WOS keeping the chain gang defense name as well.  I am not a liberal nor a republican, and sometimes politics should keep itself on policies that are more important i.e. education, bridging the income gap between the cultures, and in November VOTING TRUMP THE HELL OUT OF OFFICE!

We can only make change by Voting!

[SmashMouth]

2 hours ago, png9mon said:

Exactly!!! The Principal Chief of The Cherokee nation issued an Ambassador of Goodwill letter to Port Neches-Groves in 1979.  Specifically for The INDIANS of Port Neches-Groves.  As Ambassadors of Goodwill, under The Constitution & By-Laws of the Cherokee Nation with all of the powers & privileges thereto.  Basically, our school represents the best example of honoring the Native American.  The Official Seal of The Cherokee nation has been presented to our school.

They’re not called the PN-G Cherokees. They’re the Indians. Think they might need to check in with a few more tribes? 

[png9mon]

2 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

They’re not called the PN-G Cherokees. They’re the Indians. Think they might need to check in with a few more tribes? 

Once again the Proclamation was made to the INDIANS of Port Neches-Groves.  The other tribes, be it Apache, Atakapa, Utes, Karankawa...are entitled to send proclamations as they see fit.  Also, they may choose to not use the word Indians to describe themselves, or their tribes.  It does not diminish, in any way, the validity of the proclamation we received.

Once again, my friends, if you were not raised in the atmosphere & spirit, you will never understand, but I do respect your opinion.

[SmashMouth]

2 hours ago, png9mon said:

 

A challenge to our representation & honoring of our mascot is a direct challenge to the Cherokee nation that made us their representatives.  Oh, by the way, the official people of the Cherokee Nation live on a "Reservation", not by their own choice, but they honor their land, people, pride & traditions.  Just as the PNG Nation does the same.  If you have not been raised within this all encompassing atmosphere & heart that is PNG, there is no way I can express it to you, other than for you to know, that my respect for both the Cherokee Nation, that honored our school, and the students of PNG who carry on that respect for the future generations to come, fills me with a spirit that brings me peace.  Change may come, if forced upon us by the government.  PNG will always hold onto to the knowledge that we have done everything to uphold our assignment as Ambassadors of Goodwill. 

Oh, by the way "40" years ago is not so long.  I was in high school when that presentation was made. Please do not trash our letter.

I hope this explains how I feel, as much as I can explain it personally.  Once again, unless you are raised as we were, there is no way for you to grasp the significance of our traditions. 

May God Bless All of The Schools, Teams & Mascots as we go into this trying time & a new school year.  May we work together to see that the children are well educated, good citizens & proud of their schools, communities & traditions.

Grasp your Traditions??? WHAT? If we are going by tradition as being the stamp if approval, the traditionally all us southern white folk ought to be flying the Confederate flag in our yards. Traditionally we ought to have a bunch of negroes that we pay next to nothing share cropping for us. Traditionally, a black man would not even think about pulling over in Vidor to get a pack of smokes or a tank of gas. I could probably do this “traditionally” thing for a couple hours, but I think you get my point. 

What if another Indian nation doesn’t like y’all’s Indian tradition you got goin on over there? You gonna get more letters? 

You sound like someone trying to say that the confederate flag is ok cuz some black organization said so 50 years ago. 

Why are you hanging on to hurtful “traditional” symbols just because it fancies you and all the other non-Indian (mostly white) folks over there on refinery row?

Don’t you care about anybody but yourselves?

You got one of them black lawn jockeys in your yard? Bet. 

Traditionally speaking, you’re a racist. 

[png9mon]

3 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

What if another Indian nation doesn’t like y’all’s Indian thing you got goin on over there? You gonna get more letters? 

God Bless America!!!

Hurray!!! Love that freedom of opinion.  send those letters, express those beliefs, and after those senders are done with all of their correspondence, please remember that, in a free country,  others have the rights to their beliefs too.  

God bless all those tribes that have the right to freedoms  & beliefs, in this country.

After all, disagreement on any subject, including mascot names, is part of the American Spirit.

Gotta' love it!!!

[WOSdrummer99]

1 hour ago, png9mon said:

I value your opinion, that change is necessary.  I have nothing but respect for WO-S Mustangs & their legacy.

I speak speak my truth, that, in this instance, change is not necessary.  God Bless!

Same to you sir. I hope it works out.

[WOSdrummer99]

30 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

You got one of them black lawn jockeys in your yard? Bet. 

Oh wow, is that what those are? I preferred the lady bending over gardening. Well until it became sexual harassment.

[CardinalBacker]

2 hours ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

It should have bothered people the day it was made extinct at Appomattox Court House. They lost, it's a loser's flag. It should be like waving the white flag to surrender. (Hmmm never thought a out that one)

I agree that these should be protected. But focus on what we value today. Defending the rebel flag is a losing battle in the War of good vs evil.

This is off topic, just as I predicted.

Sorry my prideful purple friends.

Then they need to go drag down that Mexican flag that's flying in front of the PA Library.  We whipped them in the Texas Revolution and the Mexican American War.  Those losers need to tuck tail and hide.

Said no Southerner, ever. 

For that matter, we need to junk the old red, white and blue after that debacle that happened in Vietnam, huh?  Losers' flag, and all.

(Hmmmm never thought about that one, didja?)

The funny thing is that all of those "enlightened" folks don't even realize that there's a confederate flag flying in most government buildings that still have all six of the flags that've flown over texas.... they just don't recognize the actual confederate flag. BTW, somebody needs to get down their and riot at Six Flags over Texas about this crap, too.  

[CardinalBacker]

I think it's up to the people that live in that school district, period.  If they (as a group) decide to change mascots, awesome.  If they all decide to keep the traditions, that's awesome, too.  Not the school super, not some whackjobs from out of town, not just a bunch of loudmouthed "woke" kids.  When a majority of the bunch makes a decision, good for them.

It's the same way that I feel about the flag in Mississippi.  If those folks vote to change their flag, great.  If they vote to keep it as it, great.  You shouldn't have some "enlightend" college profs deciding that after a go-zillian years, it's too offensive to play "Dixie" at Ole Miss games.  Alabama was forced to quit playing "Dixieland Delight" at theirs.  It's all so stupid.  I would have said retarded, but that's offensive now, too. 

[Lions Pride 2021]

Florida State has the approval from Seminole nation to be called the Seminoles. They check in every few years to see if it's ok. I also think they get a member of the tribe to actually ride on Renegade for the games. so there's no cultural appropriation.

The NCAA made most of the schools get a letter form the tribe, or they had to change the name. Louisiana Monroe became the RedHawks and it hasn't hurt them a bit. Stanford used to be the Indians and now they are the Cardinal (color, not the bird, the mascot is a sycamore tree). They're alright.

It might be a good idea to check in with the Cherokees again to see if their position has changed. But the term Indian is so generic, I doubt even a new letter is going to please everyone. 

In PNG's defense, they do seem to have respect for the name and take care of the traditions.

Naming a team after an ethnicity is not a good idea.  If Seattle got a new basketball team, no one would think it's a good idea to nickname them the Asians, no matter how respectfully you mean it. Probably better to stick to job descriptions or animals.

The one nickname that gets me is the Kansas City Chiefs. They were named after the mayor of KC who convenced the team owners to move from Dallas. His nickname was The Chief.

It had nothing to do with Indians to start with but now it's full blown Indian regalia.

these are crazy times.

[Ty Cobb]

10 minutes ago, Lions Pride 2021 said:

Florida State has the approval from Seminole nation to be called the Seminoles. They check in every few years to see if it's ok. I also think they get a member of the tribe to actually ride on Renegade for the games. so there's no cultural appropriation.

The NCAA made most of the schools get a letter form the tribe, or they had to change the name. Louisiana Monroe became the RedHawks and it hasn't hurt them a bit. Stanford used to be the Indians and now they are the Cardinal (color, not the bird, the mascot is a sycamore tree). They're alright.

It might be a good idea to check in with the Cherokees again to see if their position has changed. But the term Indian is so generic, I doubt even a new letter is going to please everyone. 

In PNG's defense, they do seem to have respect for the name and take care of the traditions.

Naming a team after an ethnicity is not a good idea.  If Seattle got a new basketball team, no one would think it's a good idea to nickname them the Asians, no matter how respectfully you mean it. Probably better to stick to job descriptions or animals.

The one nickname that gets me is the Kansas City Chiefs. They were named after the mayor of KC who convenced the team owners to move from Dallas. His nickname was The Chief.

It had nothing to do with Indians to start with but now it's full blown Indian regalia.

these are crazy times.

I had no clue about KC. Thanks for the info.

[SmashMouth]

6 minutes ago, Lions Pride 2021 said:

In PNG's defense, they do seem to have respect for the name and take care of the traditions

I’ll agree, dressing up in “red face” shows huge respect. 

[png9mon]

1 hour ago, SmashMouth said:

Grasp your Traditions??? WHAT? If we are going by tradition as being the stamp if approval, the traditionally all us southern white folk ought to be flying the Confederate flag in our yards. Traditionally we ought to have a bunch of negroes that we pay next to nothing share cropping for us. Traditionally, a black man would not even think about pulling over in Vidor to get a pack of smokes or a tank of gas. I could probably do this “traditionally” thing for a couple hours, but I think you get my point. 

What if another Indian nation doesn’t like y’all’s Indian tradition you got goin on over there? You gonna get more letters? 

You sound like someone trying to say that the confederate flag is ok cuz some black organization said so 50 years ago. 

Why are you hanging on to hurtful “traditional” symbols just because it fancies you and all the other non-Indian (mostly white) folks over there on refinery row?

Don’t you care about anybody but yourselves?

You got one of them black lawn jockeys in your yard? Bet. 

Traditionally speaking, you’re a racist. 

Have no idea how the Confederate flag got into a discussion about honoring the native american peoples traditions with our mascot.  Please do not direct your anger at me.  Nor cast any aspersions in my direction.  Also, do not deflect attention away from the focus of my argument with your implied "racist" statements toward me.  Your hatred & judgementalism speaks of your character.  By the way, I will take that bet!   I have a cross in my front yard with the word "HOPE" on it.  I will include you in my prayers & am sorry this topic has made you so upset that you feel it necessary to attack me personally. 

God Bless!  May you find peace.

[png9mon]

2 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

I’ll agree, dressing up in “red face” shows huge respect. 

No Red Face, Only War Paint.  Please get your facts straight, my friend.

[SmashMouth]

24 minutes ago, png9mon said:

No Red Face, Only War Paint.  Please get your facts straight, my friend.

Sorry. You’re correct. Should’ve said white kid painted up and dressed up like a Native American. 

[Realville]

Well I am offended that PNG has a winning record year in and year out! You think y’all could suck every once in while! At the end of the day when it’s all said an done we’re all going to be buried in the same size hole regardless of race, religion, or politics. But I will lose my mind if we don’t have High School Football this season! Go Pirates!