INTERESTING CALL BY OFFICIAL

[PURPLE 4EVER]

Didn't know of this rule...

If a punt is fair caught and the ball hits the ground and bounces or is bobbled by the player, then ANY player on the recieving team gets control of the ball...

THE FAIR CATCH IS STILL IN PLAY!!!

Go to

www.toupsgraphics.neptune.com

The second to last video clip in the GAME 5 HLTS album has this scenario....

The Ozen player fair catches the ball.

The ball hits the Ozen player and bounces toward the end zone.

The same Ozen player gets the ball at the 2 yard line and proceeds to return the punt.

He is tackled on the 5 yard line, fumbles the ball back to the end zone, Dayton recovers the fumble for an apparent TD.

According to the rule, the fair catch is still enforced upon the Ozen player getting control of the ball.

Since the Ozen player tried to return the ball, an illegal motion penalty occurs and the ball is placed on the 1 yard line (half the distance from the 2 yard line where he got control of the ball) with Ozen having a first down.

Does this rule apply to college ball????

I have never seen this occur.

Any officials out there with more information on this rule...

[Guest whoabroncos09]

ughhh..

i was so mad when that happened.

[tvc184]

That makes sense though. Once the muffed punt was recovered, the play is dead since the receiver cannot advance it. When the Ozen receiver got the ball in his hands at the 2 yard line, the play was dead. Had he picked it up at the 2 yard line and run it back for a 98 yard touchdown, the Dayton fans would have wanted the fair catch enforced.

[BigWolf10]

That makes sense though. Once the muffed punt was recovered, the play is dead since the receiver cannot advance it. When the Ozen receiver got the ball in his hands at the 2 yard line, the play was dead. Had he picked it up at the 2 yard line and run it back for a 98 yard touchdown, the Dayton fans would have wanted the fair catch enforced.

You are correct. He called a fair catch, which would have killed the play if he'd caught the ball. If any of his team mates or Dayton players would have recovered it the play would have still been live.

[PURPLE 4EVER]

That makes sense though. Once the muffed punt was recovered, the play is dead since the receiver cannot advance it. When the Ozen receiver got the ball in his hands at the 2 yard line, the play was dead. Had he picked it up at the 2 yard line and run it back for a 98 yard touchdown, the Dayton fans would have wanted the fair catch enforced.

My thoughts exactly...

Never seen this occur...

I thought once the ball was muffed the fair catch was off and it was a live ball, but that is not the case.

Is this rule the same in college?

Also...

If Dayton would have recovered the muffed fair catch would they have been able to advance it?

[Mike George]

Ref blew the call.

If ball hits ground or is touched by member of kicking team in flight, fair catch signal is off and all rules for a kicked ball apply.

This is the rule.

[PNG Proud]

Yes, if dayton would have recovered the muffed punt, they would be ablee to advance it.

[Bigdog]

My thoughts exactly...

Never seen this occur...

I thought once the ball was muffed the fair catch was off and it was a live ball, but that is not the case.

Is this rule the same in college?

Also...

If Dayton would have recovered the muffed fair catch would they have been able to advance it?

I think this rule applies to college and pro.

[tvc184]

Yes, if dayton would have recovered the muffed punt, they would be ablee to advance it.

I haven't looked at the rules lately but the old rule is that a muffed punt cannot be returned, only recovered. That is not the same if the receiver establishes control over the ball and loses it, making it a fumble.

[tvc184]

Ref blew the call.

If ball hits ground or is touched by member of kicking team in flight, fair catch signal is off and all rules for a kicked ball apply.

This is the rule.

What rule is that?

I am not saying that it is not correct but if fumbling is all that it takes to advance a ball, then a person that signals for a fair catch but sees that he now has a lot of room to run, can simply "drop" the ball to the ground making it a fumble, then pick it back up and run with it. That would supposedly nullify the fair catch signal.

[LCM76]

Yes, if dayton would have recovered the muffed punt, they would be ablee to advance it.

Last night LCM vs. PNG, PNG muffed the punt reception, LCM recovered and ran it into the end zone.  However the ball was ruled down at the point where the LCM player recovered the ball, LCM's ball.

[PURPLE 4EVER]

I know I have videoed games in the past year when the punt was muffed, the ball picked up by either team and advanced (in either direction).

Any officials reading this post...

Is this a new change for this year....

ps...

Sorry I am breaking my 2 week no post pledge, but I would like to know the official ruling.

[PNG Proud]

Last night LCM vs. PNG, PNG muffed the punt reception, LCM recovered and ran it into the end zone.  However the ball was ruled down at the point where the LCM player recovered the ball, LCM's ball.

I was referring to the punting team recovering the muffed punt.  If they pick it up, they can advance it, unless of course a knee hits the ground.

[texasduckhunter]

once the ball hits the ground after a fair catch and it is recovered the play is over.  had big discussion today about this.

[Guest WeedBegone]

ITS AN INFIELD FLY RULE LOL

[teeboan]

Yes, if dayton would have recovered the muffed punt, they would be ablee to advance it.

wrong....kicking team cannot advance a muffed punt. they may recover it, but not advance it

[teeboan]

What rule is that?

I am not saying that it is not correct but if fumbling is all that it takes to advance a ball, then a person that signals for a fair catch but sees that he now has a lot of room to run, can simply "drop" the ball to the ground making it a fumble, then pick it back up and run with it. That would supposedly nullify the fair catch signal.

a muff is not a fumble

[PURPLE 4EVER]

Can someone please look up the wording in the rule for what happened here...

Still bugging me...

We have people in this thread saying both things...

Also...

Was this recently changed.

[drawingablank]

CATCH or RECOVERY by KICKING TEAM

ARTICLE 6.a. If a player of the kicking team catches or recovers a scrimmage kick that has crossed the neutral zone the ball becomes dead.

SECTION 5

ARTICLE 1. a. When a team B player makes a fair catch, the ball becomes dead where caught and belongs to team B at that spot.

c. The purpose of the fair catch provision is to protect the reciever who, by his fair catch signal, agrees he or a teammate will not advance after the catch.

b. The ball shall be put in play by a snap by the receiving teammate the spot of the catch if the ball is caught.

NO ADVANCE

ARTICILE 2. No team B player shall carry a caught or recoverd ball more than two steps in any direction after a valid or invalid fair catch signal by any team B player.

The penalty is Delay of Game.

here is a link to the NCAA 2007 Rule Book http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2007/2007_football_rules.pdf

[PURPLE 4EVER]

CATCH or RECOVERY by KICKING TEAM

ARTICLE 6.a. If a player of the kicking team catches or recovers a scrimmage kick that has crossed the neutral zone the ball becomes dead.

SECTION 5

ARTICLE 1. a. When a team B player makes a fair catch, the ball becomes dead where caught and belongs to team B at that spot.

c. The purpose of the fair catch provision is to protect the reciever who, by his fair catch signal, agrees he or a teammate will not advance after the catch.

b. The ball shall be put in play by a snap by the receiving teammate the spot of the catch if the ball is caught.

NO ADVANCE

ARTICILE 2. No team B player shall carry a caught or recoverd ball more than two steps in any direction after a valid or invalid fair catch signal by any team B player.

The penalty is Delay of Game.

here is a link to the NCAA 2007 Rule Book http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2007/2007_football_rules.pdf

THANKS SO MUCH FOR LOOKING THIS UP...

[rmac]

In answer if the same applies in college. Yes it does.  Texas, Ohio, California, and Florida high schools play by ncaa rules.  Most other states play by high school rules set by a national high school assocation.

[Mike George]

OK, then by rule, the Broncos should have been awarded a safety.

Had the Ozen player muffed the punt at the 50, and the ball had gotten past him and he recovered it at the 46, then the ball would have been marked for play at the 46, not the 50.

However, the player got control of the football in the endzone and ran it out. Now, it he is unable to advance the ball, then possession should have been marked in the endzone where it should have resulted in a safety. Not brought back to the point where the player muffed the point. And shouldn't at the very least, a penalty for delay of game been made?

Like I said, the official blew the call.  Anyone agree? Disagree?

IMO, according to what took place, the player was allowed to return the muff to the point from where he muffed it. I don't see that in the above rules.

[PURPLE 4EVER]

OK, then by rule, the Broncos should have been awarded a safety.

Had the Ozen player muffed the punt at the 50, and the ball had gotten past him and he recovered it at the 46, then the ball would have been marked for play at the 46, not the 50.

However, the player got control of the football in the endzone and ran it out. Now, it he is unable to advance the ball, then possession should have been marked in the endzone where it should have resulted in a safety. Not brought back to the point where the player muffed the point. And shouldn't at the very least, a penalty for delay of game been made?

Like I said, the official blew the call.  Anyone agree? Disagree?

IMO, according to what took place, the player was allowed to return the muff to the point from where he muffed it. I don't see that in the above rules.

Look at the 2nd to last video clip in the GM 05 HLTS album...

The ball is muffed and he gets position of the ball back around the 3 yard line.

Looking at the rule, it was the correct call.

Just wondering....

If the fair catch would have been at the 5 yard line, the ball "muffed", and then the player gets position in the endzone and tries to return the ball...

Would it be a safety?

I would say...

The ball is automatically dead when he recovers it in the endzone which would make it a touch back.

The delay of game penalty would occur from the 20 yard line so the ball would be placed on the 15.

Would this be the correct call?

[tvc184]

OK, then by rule, the Broncos should have been awarded a safety.

Had the Ozen player muffed the punt at the 50, and the ball had gotten past him and he recovered it at the 46, then the ball would have been marked for play at the 46, not the 50.

However, the player got control of the football in the endzone and ran it out. Now, it he is unable to advance the ball, then possession should have been marked in the endzone where it should have resulted in a safety. Not brought back to the point where the player muffed the point. And shouldn't at the very least, a penalty for delay of game been made?

Like I said, the official blew the call.  Anyone agree? Disagree?

IMO, according to what took place, the player was allowed to return the muff to the point from where he muffed it. I don't see that in the above rules.

You don't get to return a muffed ball to an imaginary spot on the field. A recovery of a muffed punt is a dead ball at the spot of the recovery. If the impetus of the ball carries it into the endzone then it is a touchback.

[drawingablank]

purple 4ever

You a correct, a muff is not consided to add new impetus to the ball, therefore the player did not put it in the endzone, the kick did, "touchback". However if a fair catch had not been called for and he would have possessed the ball and then fumble it into the endzone where he or one of his teammates recovered and downed the ball it would result in a safety.

On this play where a fair catch was called for if he would have recovered the ball in the endzone (where it becomes dead) and had tried to advance the penalty for delay of game would be enforced from the 20. Right again purple.