Does Defense STILL Win Championships

[Hagar]

I made a recent post about the High Scores in recent playoff games, wondering if Defense still wins.  MBG suggested a thread.  So here we are.

Most of us agree that in the past, Defense wins Championships, but the rule changes have favored the Offense so much, and Offenses have become more potent, is that still true?  One, helmet to helmet contact (targeting) - in a game with kids going full speed, running, spinning, jumping.  Great reason for the rule, but like several others, a handicap to Defense.  So I looked at some scores.   I’ve limited it to the two top classifications, 4A & above until 2013, and 5A & 6A 2014 To today, and have no idea when the rules were inacted, so I’m just looking at fairly recent years.  6A started in 2014.

Total scores, Prior to 2014 (4A & 5A only):

2000 - 197 - High 62,  Ennis 38/WOS 24.   Low 26, Bay City 24/Denton 2

2005 - 183 - High 59, HP 59/Marshall 0.  Low 28, Lewisville 28/Calallen 0.

2010 - 234 - High 103, Aledo 69/La Marque 34.  Low 34, Austin LT 27/Denton Ryan 7.

2013 - 243 - High 91, Allen 63/Pearland 28.  Low 45, Dento Guyer 31/N Brennan 14.

Definitely a pattern started between 2005 & 2010.  Now 2014 5A & 6A

2014 - 273 - High 94, Aledo 49/Temple 45.  Low 43, Cedar Hill 23/Katy 20.

2019 - 209 - High 97 Aledo 45/FBM 42.   Low 24, A Westlake 24/Denton Guyer 0.

Are D’s Catching up, or is 2019 an anomaly?  There were 266 points in 2018 and a big 295 in 2017.

Be interesting to see the totals for 2020.  If the 4A games are any indication, it could get big again.   Carthage 70 Gilmer 14 & Argyle 49 Lindale 21.

What do y’all think?

BTW, since I’m old and senile, I hope my math is right.  Here’s the source of my info.

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peppermint Patty]

The old saying-

You can't win if you can't score. 

Kind of works both ways.

 

[WOSdrummer99]

1 hour ago, Hagar said:

2000 - 197 - High 62,  Ennis 38/WOS 24.

That was one of the coldest games I've ever been to. Another factor to consider is all championship games being played inside now. Conditions can definitely change things. Going back to the 80s these scores were lower than the 2000 game.

1986 WOS vs McKinney 21-9 (Astrodome)

1987 WOS vs Rockwall 17-7 (Kyle Field)

1988 WOS vs Paris 13-31 (Kyle Field)

[NHSBulldogFan]

19 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

That was one of the coldest games I've ever been to. Another factor to consider is all championship games being played inside now. Conditions can definitely change things. Going back to the 80s these scores were lower than the 2000 game.

1986 WOS vs McKinney 21-9 (Astrodome)

1987 WOS vs Rockwall 17-7 (Kyle Field)

1988 WOS vs Paris 13-31 (Kyle Field)

None of those teams threw the ball like Ennis did though. All 3 of those teams were primarily running teams.

[WOSdrummer99]

49 minutes ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

None of those teams threw the ball like Ennis did though. All 3 of those teams were primarily running teams.

Ennis QB Graham Harrell was pretty good

[Hagar]

1 hour ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

That was one of the coldest games I've ever been to. Another factor to consider is all championship games being played inside now. Conditions can definitely change things. Going back to the 80s these scores were lower than the 2000 game.

1986 WOS vs McKinney 21-9 (Astrodome)

1987 WOS vs Rockwall 17-7 (Kyle Field)

1988 WOS vs Paris 13-31 (Kyle Field)

Exactly my point.  The new rules, and wide open offenses has made defense the step child of football.   I went back and looked at Aledo a few years.  Durn they put up large numbers.  Very few defenses can hold them down, which is similar to most consistently successful teams.

And yes, the domed stadiums is another asset to the Offense.

[NHSBulldogFan]

4 hours ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

Ennis QB Graham Harrell was pretty good

Graham wasn't the QB on that Ennis team that beat WO-S Tate Wallis was

[alphadog]

That 2000 WO-S defense was stout too.

[WOSdrummer99]

3 hours ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

Graham wasn't the QB on that Ennis team that beat WO-S Tate Wallis was

Thanks. Those years were a blur. Just always assumed he was the qb that year. Wallis was good too. Wish I wouldn't have looked it up though.

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

[WO-S 89]

9 hours ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

Graham wasn't the QB on that Ennis team that beat WO-S Tate Wallis was

No I think it was Graham Harrell.

[WO-S 89]

3 minutes ago, WO-S 89 said:

No I think it was Graham Harrell.

Oops you were right I just looked it up. 

[purpleeagle]

What defense does is give the ball back to the offense with more opportunities to score.

[Majestyk]

13 hours ago, WO-S 89 said:

Oops you were right I just looked it up. 

I think it was Tate Walllis in 2000 and Graham Harrell 2001-2003. Harrell was a sophomore in 2001 and Ennis beat Bay City 21-0 in the Astrodome for championship.

[WOSgrad]

It was Tate Wallis.  Probably the reason Graham was thought to be the QB is all of those Ennis teams were coached by Graham's dad, Sam Harrell.

[piratevillain]

I've always been a firm believer that defense wins championships. But one thing that every championship defense always or must have is a great scoring defense and win the takeover margin. Without those two factors, it's hard be at that level, imo. But also, I've said it before... the offense also has to compliment the defense and score as often as possible to earn that right to be a dominant championship like defense. 

[badndn]

Yes. Todays offenses score so quickly that a good defense versus a good offense can look deceiving. A 49-28 winner is a defense that was on the field a lot and made enough stops and slowed the quicker offense down. Thats a good defense. LSU last year was a prime example. Tiger fans were going nuts early on about the points given up, but had never been used to such a quick scoring offense. Boom National Champs

[badndn]

21 minutes ago, Pho Rizzle said:

Unfortunately MOST high schools can't field both a great defense and a great offense due to lack of personnel . Which one would you rather have if you could only have one or the other ?

Now that’s a good question. I would say a great defense. Look at what WOS is able to do every year. Some with great offenses and some that just don’t make a lot of mistakes but always stymie the opposing def. and give them a chance at a W. 

[Hooohead.com]

Defense Won the game between Clear Falls vs Katy Taylor and a nice windgust at the right times. 

[Hagar]

It’s not the SC, but his scores from 5AD1 Regional.

Reg 1 - 28-7  &   21-19

Reg 2 - 45-27  &  64-50

Reg 3 -  33-29  &  49-0

Reg 4 -  56-42  &  77-64

Dang, except for Reg 1, that’s some high scores.  I did notice that 5AD1 is quite a bit lower.

[Austin1985]

Denton Ryan would like to have a word.....

[Gasilla]

This is a great topic. 

I believe there was a time that defense won championships. I do not believe thats the case any longer. 4A and up teams that win consistently have polished offenses and disciplined defenses. I believe the change started when Stephenville started dominating with average talent and an outstanding scheme. They emphasized the offense and were so good at what they did that they could score on the most prolific defenses (like LaMarque of the 90's).

Carthage is another example. Carthage had a great defense this year but they still win even when they don't have the best defense because they are so dynamic on offense. 

Defensive minded teams typically lack on the offensive side. These days, no matter how good you are on defense, you will eventually find someone dynamic enough to score on you. When that happens, you better be good enough to outscore them. Quite often, defensive teams can't win a shoot out. Offensive minded teams are used to it.

In a nutshell, I think the model now is a prolific offense and a defense good enough to get a few stops.

[dj]

Yes .defense will always in the end win championship.the game is won in the trenches.and when u have a great coaching staff to go along with that. Teams like ,Carthage, north shore,and Aledo will always be gud.they dominate the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

[Austin1985]

Denton Ryan, again, would like to have a word holding old money HP to 7 points......

[Hagar]

Holding HP to 7 is fairly rare, but shows a good Defense.

On the other hand, in Reg Semi-Finals of 5AD2 there was Sharyland Pioneer defeating Georgetown Eastview 77-64, and the Stats are scary, based on Hudl Highlights.

Pioneer Total yds 728 - R444 P284

East View Total yds 628 - R372 P256

Lol, a DC nightmare.

Pioneer QB Eddie Marburger rushed for 6 TD’s & threw 4 TD passes.  Wow.

[Hagar]

So let’s see how the Defenses are doing in the Semi-Finals of 5A.

Div 1:

Cedar Park 61  CC Vets 28  Total 89

Ryan 49  Mansfield 35   Total 84

Div 2

Crosby 62  Liberty Hill 61   Total 123

Aledo 55  Ryan 28   Total 83

Times they are a changing.