Senate Impeachment Trial Act II

[CardinalBacker]

23 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

I tend to agree with that. Which is not grounds for impeachment or criminal culpability imo. 

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 2102.Definitions

(a)

As used in this chapter, the term “

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” means a public disturbance involving (1) an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons, which act or acts shall constitute a clear and present danger of, or shall result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual or (2) a threat or threats of the commission of an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons having, individually or collectively, the ability of immediate execution of such threat or threats, where the performance of the threatened act or acts of violence would constitute a clear and present danger of, or would result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual.

(b)

As used in this chapter, the term “to incite a 

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”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a 

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”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to 

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, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.

(Added 

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, Apr. 11, 1968, 

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That's pretty straight forward stuff.  

 (a.) Was there a riot?  Yes.

 (b.)  Did Trump organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot?  Ummmmm.... I do believe he organized his rally, encouraged his supporters to go down there and fight like hell, and claimed he'd be right there participating with them. 

 

It's kind of like this... Did he know how far his supporters would take things?  No.  But did he send them down there to raise hell?  Absolutely.   That's textbook incitement.... at least in my opinion. 

[SmashMouth]

48 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

b.)  Did Trump organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot?  Ummmmm.... I do believe he organized his rally, encouraged his supporters to go down there and fight like hell, and claimed he'd be right there participating with them. 

I respect your opinion. Not even close though.

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 2102.Definitions

(a)

As used in this chapter, the term “

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” means a public disturbance involving (1) an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons, which act or acts shall constitute a clear and present danger of, or shall result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual or (2) a threat or threats of the commission of an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons having, individually or collectively, the ability of immediate execution of such threat or threats, where the performance of the threatened act or acts of violence would constitute a clear and present danger of, or would result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual.

(b)

As used in this chapter, the term “to incite a 

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”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a 

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”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to 

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, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.

(Added 

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, Apr. 11, 1968, 

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That's pretty straight forward stuff.  

 (a.) Was there a riot?  Yes.

 (b.)  Did Trump organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot?  Ummmmm.... I do believe he organized his rally, encouraged his supporters to go down there and fight like hell, and claimed he'd be right there participating with them. 

 

It's kind of like this... Did he know how far his supporters would take things?  No.  But did he send them down there to raise hell?  Absolutely.   That's textbook incitement.... at least in my opinion. 

Two things:  First, it's interesting how this was called a riot and when the left was burning down and tearing up everything in sight it's called "unrest!"  Second:  If Trump is truly guilty of this then shouldn't this be for the courts to decide?  You know, him being a private citizen?  Like I said before, impeachment is the recourse used against civil servants concerning "high crimes and misdemeanors."  Unless this is pure evil and hate!

[CardinalBacker]

31 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Two things:  First, it's interesting how this was called a riot and when the left was buring down and taring up everything in sight it's called "unrest!"  Second:  If Trump is truly guilty of this then shouldn't this be for the courts to decide?  You know, him being a private citizen?  Like I said before, impeachment is the recourse used against civil servants concerning "high crimes and misdemeanors."  Unless this is pure evil and hate!

I think that this impeachment is misguided politically... it serves no real purpose.  I expect the Senate to fail to convict him, then we'll see both chambers push through some type of action under Sec 3 of the 14th Amendment that would prohibit him from ever running again.  I saw today where Fulton County has opened an investigation into his phone call from 1/2/21.... I also wouldn't be very surprised to see Trump prosecuted criminally in DC for his actions on 1/6.  

I suspect that Chief Justice Roberts abstained from presiding because he knows that the SC will end up hearing arguments over constitutionality of a former president being impeached if a conviction occurs. 

The sad thing about it is that Trump has brought all of this down upon himself because of his actions between 1/2 and 1/6.  He was so far out of line that it's not even funny. That phone call could legitimately land him in prison. I doubt it does, but he's going to spend a fortune defending his actions... which were wrong, btw.  

[SmashMouth]

8 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

I suspect that Chief Justice Roberts abstained from presiding because he knows that the SC will end up hearing arguments over constitutionality of a former president being impeached if a conviction occurs.

That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking too. 

[Reagan]

From the article:  "Democrats invoked the words of legal analyst Jonathan Turley in their opening statement on the second impeachment of President Donald J. Trump. The only problem? Turley says they’ve misrepresented him as a result of a falsehood perpetuated (and uncorrected) during a CNN interview."

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[Reagan]

As Jordan says -- this is an "obsession" that has no basis in the legal arena.

[PAMFAM10]

12 hours ago, baddog said:

You want to bury Trump for supposedly inciting a riot, while Maxine Watters, Chuck Schumer, and Bernie Sanders all incited  riots, but they all get a pass from you...... no principles whatsoever. That better? Always have to spell it out for you. 

Ok where have I said I’m giving them a pass. I’m not you baddog throw them all under the jail. And just start over. It’s all embarrassing.

[baddog]

7 hours ago, PAMFAM10 said:

Ok where have I said I’m giving them a pass. I’m not you baddog throw them all under the jail. And just start over. It’s all embarrassing.

By not condemning them for their actions but you’re all over this one. You don’t see that? You have to have conviction in your life. 

[baddog]

I’ve seen some of this trial. People think Trump is a clown????? These yo-yos are doing nothing more than getting their 15 minutes. Barnum & Bailey could use some new acts. 
Really? People really watch this crapola and don’t realize how damaging this is to us as a nation? And you call yourselves enlightened and educated?

[Realville]

This stupid Impeachment is only more proof that Trump WON BIG and they want to further silence him.

[Realville]

18 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

 

 

18 U.S. Code § 2102.Definitions

(a)

As used in this chapter, the term “

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” means a public disturbance involving (1) an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons, which act or acts shall constitute a clear and present danger of, or shall result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual or (2) a threat or threats of the commission of an act or acts of violence by one or more persons part of an assemblage of three or more persons having, individually or collectively, the ability of immediate execution of such threat or threats, where the performance of the threatened act or acts of violence would constitute a clear and present danger of, or would result in, damage or injury to the property of any other person or to the person of any other individual.

(b)

As used in this chapter, the term “to incite a 

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”, or “to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a 

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”, includes, but is not limited to, urging or instigating other persons to 

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, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts.

(Added 

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, Apr. 11, 1968, 

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That's pretty straight forward stuff.  

 (a.) Was there a riot?  Yes.

 (b.)  Did Trump organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot?  Ummmmm.... I do believe he organized his rally, encouraged his supporters to go down there and fight like hell, and claimed he'd be right there participating with them. 

 

It's kind of like this... Did he know how far his supporters would take things?  No.  But did he send them down there to raise hell?  Absolutely.   That's textbook incitement.... at least in my opinion. 

 

Your so good at taking shit out context Unicorn Boy.

[Realville]

Don’t remember Trump encouraging his supporters to help post bail for the thugs burning down small businesses across this country this past summer. Why don’t we impeach Kamala Union Boy? 

[CardinalBacker]

35 minutes ago, Realville said:

Don’t remember Trump encouraging his supporters to help post bail for the thugs burning down small businesses across this country this past summer. Why don’t we impeach Kamala Union Boy? 

Well, for starters, I don’t recall Harris planning a big rally and publicly encouraging attendees to leave the rally and go fight... which is exactly what happened next. 
 

Secondly, last summer NOBODY encouraged their supporters to go halt the peaceful transfer of power that is the key to our democracy like Trump did. 
 

Those are two huge differences that you are incapable of recognizing. 

[Reagan]

4 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Well, for starters, I don’t recall Harris planning a big rally and publicly encouraging attendees to leave the rally and go fight... which is exactly what happened next. 
 

Secondly, last summer NOBODY encouraged their supporters to go halt the peaceful transfer of power that is the key to our democracy like Trump did. 
 

Those are two huge differences that you are incapable of recognizing. 

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[baddog]

24 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Well, for starters, I don’t recall Harris planning a big rally and publicly encouraging attendees to leave the rally and go fight... which is exactly what happened next. 
 

Secondly, last summer NOBODY encouraged their supporters to go halt the peaceful transfer of power that is the key to our democracy like Trump did. 
 

Those are two huge differences that you are incapable of recognizing. 

So it’s ok to bail out Molotov cocktail throwing thugs and looters? That’s where you lose me. 

[Realville]

36 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Well, for starters, I don’t recall Harris planning a big rally and publicly encouraging attendees to leave the rally and go fight... which is exactly what happened next. 
 

Secondly, last summer NOBODY encouraged their supporters to go halt the peaceful transfer of power that is the key to our democracy like Trump did. 
 

Those are two huge differences that you are incapable of recognizing. 

Your ignorance is disingenuous.

[Realville]

38 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Well, for starters, I don’t recall Harris planning a big rally and publicly encouraging attendees to leave the rally and go fight... which is exactly what happened next. 
 

Secondly, last summer NOBODY encouraged their supporters to go halt the peaceful transfer of power that is the key to our democracy like Trump did. 
 

Those are two huge differences that you are incapable of recognizing. 

Sooo..... when a politician ( Democrat & Republican) says we have to fight to take our country back you take that literally? You are a ignorant fool to believe that type of rhetorical hyperbole. That’s as bad as AOC saying we need to stop killing so many buffaloes to make Buffalo Wings. Good Grief!

[LumRaiderFan]

58 minutes ago, baddog said:

So it’s ok to bail out Molotov cocktail throwing thugs and looters? That’s where you lose me. 

Exactly right, while her constituents were actively rioting, she encouraged them to keep going.  

[PAMFAM10]

2 hours ago, baddog said:

By not condemning them for their actions but you’re all over this one. You don’t see that? You have to have conviction in your life. 

Couldn’t the same be said about you? Where’s your conviction 

[PAMFAM10]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

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Oh no this board has already proved joking,hoping the death of politicians is fair game.

[SmashMouth]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

publicly encouraging attendees to leave the rally and go fight...

Cmon CB... That was figurative speech. You know this. 

[SmashMouth]

2 minutes ago, PAMFAM10 said:

Oh no this board has already proved joking,hoping the death of politicians is fair game.

Jokingly- I don’t have a big problem with it. It’s just gotta be ok both ways. It’s not. 

[CardinalBacker]

50 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

Cmon CB... That was figurative speech. You know this. 

When a football coach tells his team to go out there and fight, it's just figurative speech.  Just like when Buddy Stephens says to "get out there and shove that football up somebody's nose"... He really doesn't want them to try and insert said pigskin into anybody's nasal passage.  But Buddy is doing his part to get them motivated to get out there and perform, hopefully winning a football game.  And if a coach turns around and says, "shoot, I never expected those guys to actually go out there and PLAY football" after drawing up a game plan, scheduling a game, arranging bus transport, giving the pep talk and standing on the sidelines while the game goes on.... he'd be a liar.  The game (in this case, riotous insurrection) would have never happened without the coach's personal involvement. 

[SmashMouth]

29 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

When a football coach tells his team to go out there and fight, it's just figurative speech.  Just like when Buddy Stephens says to "get out there and shove that football up somebody's nose"... He really doesn't want them to try and insert said pigskin into anybody's nasal passage.  But Buddy is doing his part to get them motivated to get out there and perform, hopefully winning a football game.  And if a coach turns around and says, "shoot, I never expected those guys to actually go out there and PLAY football" after drawing up a game plan, scheduling a game, arranging bus transport, giving the pep talk and standing on the sidelines while the game goes on.... he'd be a liar.  The game (in this case, riotous insurrection) would have never happened without the coach's personal involvement. 

Regardless, imo, he’s not accountable for the actions he never specifically prompted. He even told them to go to the Capitol peacefully. I did not take the meaning or motivation from Trump to actually go down there and physically fight. That’s not what he implied. Also, even the left says this crap was planned days in advance according to intelligence from FBI and other sources. Sometimes people have to be responsible for their own actions. As a line and defensive coach, I have told many young men to “kill” the guy in front of them. To knock their ?ick in the dirt. To knock the piss out of somebody. To hit em so hard their mama feels it. The list could go on forever. I never expected a player to actually do those things. 
“Fight” means lots of things in a dictionary- like fight in court or fight to pass legislation or fight a corporate takeover... not one of them implies violence.