Reparations 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[UT alum]

19 hours ago, baddog said:

Aren’t you still on this thread? I beg to differ. 
 

Despite substantial hurdles, Black Americans still managed to 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 15 million acres of land by 1910, much of which was used for agricultural purposes. At the peak in 1920, Black families owned and operated 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

 of a million farms – about 14 percent of all farms at the time. The ability to grow crops and raise livestock afforded Black families not just food and financial security but also the opportunity for upward mobility.

Then why they all left and went north after WW ll began

[Big girl]

59 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Here's the problem... .those are a lot of theories about "racism,' but not actual policies that negatively affect black people.  For example... "the fact that there are more blacks in prison than whites PROVES that the criminal justice system is racist."  Except it doesn't.  Over 50% of the murders in the US are committed by black people... who only make up 13% of the population.  So the fact that more black people are in prison for murder does NOT reflect "systemic racism."  

It's no secret that black people like to spend their money differently than white people as a general rule.  Flashy clothes, expensive cars...  You've heard the term- they called it living _______ rich.  You know, you've heard it.   But if I chose to blow my money on clothes, cars, hairdos, nails, chains, and live in a shack, it's hard to come back later and say "racism" is the reason that I don't have a house/personal wealth.  How many times have you been through the McDonald's drive thru and been proud to see a young black woman standing there doing a job that I wouldn't want? Good for her!  I'm freaking proud- but then you realize that she's having trouble pushing the keys because of her salon nails and that hairdo wasn't cheap.  It's deflating to me personally.  She can't afford to do those things, practically speaking... She's not going to get ahead with that McJob, and she dang sure can't if she's blowing her cash on stuff like that.  I don't know how much tattoos cost in the hood, but I can't afford that kind of work over here at Flippers, but most black kids somehow find a way to get tatted up. That's cool, but you can't complain if my kid has more cash (but less tattoos) than you. 

In the 90s the federal government made it possible for disadvantaged people to buy homes with little or no money down... it was a focused effort to increase the rates of home ownership in the black community.  However, these were non-traditional loans made to people who wouldn't have normally qualified for a home loan because of a lack of credit, down payment etc... when things went as they were easily predicted and these new homeowners started losing their homes, the program(s) were suddenly referred to as "predatory lending."  And the whole argument about "redlining" is a dog whistle.  Did it happen?  Of course.  Did it happen much?  Heck, no...  The fact that some people were wrongfully turned away from new developments in the cities has nothing to do with the fact that so many black families abandoned their homes for Section 8 housing or just left small town east texas for the city.  But you have to be honest... homes in black neighborhoods won't sell for what similar homes will sell for in white neighborhoods.  And that's not a racism, that's a reflection on higher crime rates, booming stereos, drug use, etc... Why should I expect to pay the same amount for a house in Groves that was built in the 1940s than I'd pay for one in Port Arthur that was built in the 1940s... except the one in PA has burglar bars installed. It costs the same amount of money to build in BC or PA... your new home in BC is just gonna be worth a whole lot more.  That's a fact.  That's the truth.  That might hurt feelings... But it's reality.  

 Is the East side of Port Arthur underserved by pharmacies?  Absolutely.  But they used to have pharmacies and most of them shut down (Gulfway/Savannah) because they couldn't stay open because of all of the shoplifting.  But the fact that they are no longer serving the community is somehow proof of racism? Not at all. 

I'll give an example of where the system is blind.  Race isn't taken into account when it comes time to get retail credit.  This is pure speculation, for the sake of a story.  Let's say that statistically speaking, black people are three times more likely to have their car repossessed than white people.  Pure math... 10 blacks, three repos.  10 whites, one repo.  The numbers don't lie.  A statistician would start to say "wait.... we need to look a little closer at these black borrowers... their loans go bad at 3x the rate of white borrowers... shouldn't those riskier loans justify a higher interest rate?" Yet our federal government (correctly) disallows the use of racial data in the purchase of homes/cars/credit cards.  But you'd look at that situation and say that the fact that three times as many blacks get their cars repossessed is proof of racism.... when the truth of the matter is that more owners of that color just happened to not pay their car notes.  That's the fallacy of your arguments. 

My honest opinion is that without any proof from you of an actual racist policy that can be corrected today, I'll still agree that there are some biases built into our systems.... Some biases that negatively affect black people.  But I also think that they account for about 2% of the reasons why the black community has struggled, yet that bias is blamed for 100% of the problems facing your community and that disingenuous and not helpful at all to mislead your community.  

The  Black community suffers because of all the things I mentioned.. In the years immediately after slavery everything that was acquired was taken by white people." Black Wallstreet" was self sufficient until it was bombed. In other areas, blacks were lynched  so that their land could be confiscated. Jim Crow laws also kept blacks from making progress, my mom and dad had to sit in the back of the bus. Predatory lending, segregation, inequality in schools, discriminatory housing practices also play at part. There was a case in which black people owned beach front property in California, it was forcibly taken my white people, and became a popular resort. Their descendants sought legal action in order to regain the property, and they were successful. A black couple were selling their house, and it was appraised for a amount that they thought was too low. They had a white friend pretend like it was his property and the appraised value went up exponentially. Racism is real.. 

[CardinalBacker]

26 minutes ago, Big girl said:

The  Black community suffers because of all the things I mentioned.. In the years immediately after slavery everything that was acquired was taken by white people." Black Wallstreet" was self sufficient until it was bombed. In other areas, blacks were lynched  so that their land could be confiscated. Jim Crow laws also kept blacks from making progress, my mom and dad had to sit in the back of the bus. Predatory lending, segregation, inequality in schools, discriminatory housing practices also play at part. There was a case in which black people owned beach front property in California, it was forcibly taken my white people, and became a popular resort. Their descendants sought legal action in order to regain the property, and they were successful. A black couple were selling their house, and it was appraised for an amount that they thought was too low. They had a white friend pretend like it was his property and the appraised value went up exponentially. Racism is real.. 

Those are all real problems… none of which have occurred in my 50 years on earth, with the exception of the last, and I argue that it’s a shame, but not racism IMO. I dabble in real estate. If it’s obvious that a home has been flipped, it tends to hurt the value of a house. Savvy buyers assume that corners were cut AND the buyer is looking to sell in a hurry… the market will offer less for that house. 
 

The fact is this… everybody involved in the sale of a house wants a higher price except for the buyer himself. The seller gets more $$$, the realtors’ commissions are higher, the title company makes more money, the bank makes more interest, the insurance company gets higher premiums, the taxing entities make more money if the value is higher. 
 

But you want me to believe that all of those people and organizations are willing to make less money out of racial animus? That’s bull… a black owned house isn’t worth what a white owned house is…. Why is that? Is it a fear that the home hasn’t been maintained? Is it a fear that the neighborhood’s demographics are  changing? Are potential buyers thinking to themselves “oh, my… even the decent blacks people don’t want to live here?” You have to admit that generations worth of being crappy neighbors has no doubt had an effect on property values in minority neighborhoods. Everything from crappy decisions at the governing body level (BISD, Port Arthur City Council, etc..) and bad schools also play into those decisions. 
 

But to pretend that the entire housing industry is leaving money on the table out of racial animus is just…dumb. 

[Big girl]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Those are all real problems… none of which have occurred in my 50 years on earth, with the exception of the last, and I argue that it’s a shame, but not racism IMO. I dabble in real estate. If it’s obvious that a home has been flipped, it tends to hurt the value of a house. Savvy buyers assume that corners were cut AND the buyer is looking to sell in a hurry… the market will offer less for that house. 
 

The fact is this… everybody involved in the sale of a house wants a higher price except for the buyer himself. The seller gets more $$$, the realtors’ commissions are higher, the title company makes more money, the bank makes more interest, the insurance company gets higher premiums, the taxing entities make more money if the value is higher. 
 

But you want me to believe that all of those people and organizations are willing to make less money out of racial animus? That’s bull… a black owned house isn’t worth what a white owned house is…. Why is that? Is it a fear that the home hasn’t been maintained? Is it a fear that the neighborhood’s demographics are  changing? Are potential buyers thinking to themselves “oh, my… even the decent blacks people don’t want to live here?” You have to admit that generations worth of being crappy neighbors has no doubt had an effect on property values in minority neighborhoods. Everything from crappy decisions at the governing body level (BISD, Port Arthur City Council, etc..) and bad schools also play into those decisions. 
 

But to pretend that the entire housing industry is leaving money on the table out of racial animus is just…dumb. 

Read the definition of systemic racism..

Systemic racism is so embedded in systems that it often is assumed to reflect the natural, inevitable order of things.

[LumRaiderFan]

1 hour ago, Big girl said:

Read the definition of systemic racism..

Systemic racism is so embedded in systems that it often is assumed to reflect the natural, inevitable order of things.

What a load of crap, so systemic racism is so prevalent, we simply think it’s normal.

Cardinalbacker has destroyed your argument, you simply choose not to see it, so rather than address current issues, you choose to blame folks that lived over 150 years ago.

 

[LumRaiderFan]

36 minutes ago, Big girl said:

Apparently you didnt read my posts. The past helps to determine the future. You are an uneducated, disenfranchised white man, so you wouldn't understand.😉

Like I said earlier, the future isn’t determined by what happened over 150 years ago. Stop blaming others for your failures and make your own way.

No one owes you anything.

[Big girl]

1 hour ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Like I said earlier, the future isn’t determined by what happened over 150 years ago. Stop blaming others for your failures and make your own way.

No one owes you anything.

Most of these things are happening today. Hell I bet I am doing better than you in spite of....

[BS Wildcats]

7 minutes ago, Big girl said:

Most of these things are happening today. Hell I bet I am doing better than you in spite of....

In spite of what?  

[LumRaiderFan]

20 minutes ago, Big girl said:

Most of these things are happening today. Hell I bet I am doing better than you in spite of....

You seem to always be trying to prove your worth to others.  Just live your life and quit comparing yourself to others.

Also, if you’re doing so well and happy with life, why are you advocating for another handout for money you don’t deserve?

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, Big girl said:

Most of these things are happening today. Hell I bet I am doing better than you in spite of....

You’re not doing good in spite of, and I’m not doing good because of… you’re doing good because you’ve busted your tail and made good decisions. I wish more people like you would recognize that fact and spread that message instead of telling black kids that the deck is stacked against them. 
 

There’s a young black man that I know…. He’s really close with my nephew and actually works work for one of my best friend. 26 years old, lives with his fiancé, two small kids. Has a blue collar job that allows him to be home every night, gets as much overtime as he wants and will easily make $150k this year. He’s got a boat, ATV, and a diesel pickup. He and his DAD are raising a few cows together. He is just like a lot of other kids I know… what makes him unique is that he’s black. In a few years he’ll be applying for supervisory roles that he’ll be qualified for, and he’ll receive special consideration because of his race-his employer WANTS to see their ranks become more diversified. 
 

But you still seem to be convinced that the deck is stacked against this kid. It’s not…

[Big girl]

36 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

You’re not doing good in spite of, and I’m not doing good because of… you’re doing good because you’ve busted your tail and made good decisions. I wish more people like you would recognize that fact and spread that message instead of telling black kids that the deck is stacked against them. 
 

There’s a young black man that I know…. He’s really close with my nephew and actually works work for one of my best friend. 26 years old, lives with his fiancé, two small kids. Has a blue collar job that allows him to be home every night, gets as much overtime as he wants and will easily make $150k this year. He’s got a boat, ATV, and a diesel pickup. He and his DAD are raising a few cows together. He is just like a lot of other kids I know… what makes him unique is that he’s black. In a few years he’ll be applying for supervisory roles that he’ll be qualified for, and he’ll receive special consideration because of his race-his employer WANTS to see their ranks become more diversified. 
 

But you still seem to be convinced that the deck is stacked against this kid. It’s not…

Why does being black make him unique? Aren't you proving my point?

[CardinalBacker]

7 hours ago, Big girl said:

Why does being black make him unique? Aren't you proving my point?

Yes… the fact that  he is black makes him unique.  Most of his black peers are not similarly situated.  Your son is unique. In a community that believes that “the only way out” is via a 🔥mixtape or becoming a professional athlete, and academics are largely ignored by kids and parents alike… they are both unique. 
 

But instead of celebrating the efforts and accomplishments made by the unique young people (and their parents who did a great job) you stand back and say “well, it was in spite of being ____…. The system failed everybody else.”

When OJ Simpson was found not guilty in the 1990s, black people celebrated widely… “finally… a black man got a fair trial in America” was the thought. I was like “no, finally a black man had enough money to afford a top notch defense…. His race is irrelevant, but the fact that he is black makes his success unique.”

Here’s the thing… you are walking, talking proof that success in America is possible for anybody. You’re not wrong… you probably are doing better than a lot of the people on this board. But you stand around and recite all of the mantras that absolve the black community of any responsibility for their own shortcomings instead of recognizing that what you’ve done isn’t hard, it’s common sense, good parenting, hard work and sound decisions. It has to be tough for you because it flies in the face of what you’ve been taught and I’m certain that your community as a whole doesn’t want to hear it… that’s something that I don’t experience. 

[baddog]

10 hours ago, Big girl said:

Most of these things are happening today. Hell I bet I am doing better than you in spite of....

Sadly, this is all that matters to you. I’ll call you Barney Fife since you constantly shoot yourself in the foot. Your life is nothing more than symbolism.

[Reagan]

@Big girl  Ok, if you say there is "systemic racism", and since we are all equal, it would only make sense that this systemic racism is cut right down the middle:  50% white -- 50% black!  Right?!

I'm not agreeing that there is "systemic racism".  Just trying to make sense of what you think.  I'll have more to say later.

[Big girl]

6 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Yes… the fact that  he is black makes him unique.  Most of his black peers are not similarly situated.  Your son is unique. In a community that believes that “the only way out” is via a 🔥mixtape or becoming a professional athlete, and academics are largely ignored by kids and parents alike… they are both unique. 
 

But instead of celebrating the efforts and accomplishments made by the unique young people (and their parents who did a great job) you stand back and say “well, it was in spite of being ____…. The system failed everybody else.”

When OJ Simpson was found not guilty in the 1990s, black people celebrated widely… “finally… a black man got a fair trial in America” was the thought. I was like “no, finally a black man had enough money to afford a top notch defense…. His race is irrelevant, but the fact that he is black makes his success unique.”

Here’s the thing… you are walking, talking proof that success in America is possible for anybody. You’re not wrong… you probably are doing better than a lot of the people on this board. But you stand around and recite all of the mantras that absolve the black community of any responsibility for their own shortcomings instead of recognizing that what you’ve done isn’t hard, it’s common sense, good parenting, hard work and sound decisions. It has to be tough for you because it flies in the face of what you’ve been taught and I’m certain that your community as a whole doesn’t want to hear it… that’s something that I don’t experience. 

LMBO...You are prejudiced. How do you know what MOST black youth want. I am surrounded by excellence..in spite of. My best friend's son is a lawyer, her daughter just got accepted into medical school She graduated from the University of Texas with a 3 9 in biochemistry. I have a cousin who graduated from UT in 3 years. I also have a cousin with a Ph.d. my husband has a cousin who is a m.d. etc, so your statement is confusing.

[LumRaiderFan]

5 minutes ago, Big girl said:

LMBO...You are prejudiced. How do you know what MOST black youth want. I am surrounded by excellence..in spite of. My best friend's son is a lawyer, her daughter just got accepted into medical school She graduated from the University of Texas with a 3 9 in biochemistry. I have a cousin who graduated from UT in 3 years. I also have a cousin with a Ph.d. my husband has a cousin who is a m.d. etc, so your statement is confusing.

Someone is not very good at this systemic racism thing.

[Big girl]

49 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

Someone is not very good at this systemic racism thing.

In spite of ........

[baddog]

54 minutes ago, Big girl said:

LMBO...You are prejudiced. How do you know what MOST black youth want. I am surrounded by excellence..in spite of. My best friend's son is a lawyer, her daughter just got accepted into medical school She graduated from the University of Texas with a 3 9 in biochemistry. I have a cousin who graduated from UT in 3 years. I also have a cousin with a Ph.d. my husband has a cousin who is a m.d. etc, so your statement is confusing.

Barney Fife strikes again. You totally keep disproving your point, whatever that point was. What a total buffoon and a slap in the face to our educational system. I guess higher learning should be free. Who in the heck would pay to be as dumb as you?

[baddog]

7 minutes ago, Big girl said:

In spite of dummy.......

I saw that. Duh….I guess you are the only one to weather the storm, which really must not be as terrible as you make out, I mean, you made it. Got all the worldly possessions (trophies) to show your status that “you made it”. Good for you.

[BS Wildcats]

2 hours ago, Big girl said:

LMBO...You are prejudiced. How do you know what MOST black youth want. I am surrounded by excellence..in spite of. My best friend's son is a lawyer, her daughter just got accepted into medical school She graduated from the University of Texas with a 3 9 in biochemistry. I have a cousin who graduated from UT in 3 years. I also have a cousin with a Ph.d. my husband has a cousin who is a m.d. etc, so your statement is confusing.

So maybe family and upbringing plays a role, not systemic racism.  

[CardinalBacker]

8 hours ago, Big girl said:

LMBO...You are prejudiced. How do you know what MOST black youth want. I am surrounded by excellence..in spite of. My best friend's son is a lawyer, her daughter just got accepted into medical school She graduated from the University of Texas with a 3 9 in biochemistry. I have a cousin who graduated from UT in 3 years. I also have a cousin with a Ph.d. my husband has a cousin who is a m.d. etc, so your statement is confusing.

Ok…. I’ll agree with being prejudiced. Just because 49% of black males have been arrested by the age of 23 is immaterial. 
 

But you just proved my point that racism isn’t holding black kids back. You’ve got example after example of black kids who’ve excelled. 
 

Last question. Why are only SOME black kids held back by systemic racism?

 

[5GallonBucket]

11 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Ok…. I’ll agree with being prejudiced. Just because 49% of black males have been arrested by the age of 23 is immaterial. 
 

But you just proved my point that racism isn’t holding black kids back. You’ve got example after example of black kids who’ve excelled. 
 

Last question. Why are only SOME black kids held back by systemic racism?

 

I have found a lot of kids are held back by their own parents.

I see it alot

go sit at the high school s and watch how many parents drop off their kids hour to two hours late everyday 5 days a week.

[CardinalBacker]

42 minutes ago, 5GallonBucket said:

I have found a lot of kids are held back by their own parents.

I see it alot

go sit at the high school s and watch how many parents drop off their kids hour to two hours late everyday 5 days a week.

That’s not racial… we moved to an area outside of our district when I was a freshman and my mom HAD to drop me off… i ended up in ISS over tardies. 

[5GallonBucket]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s not racial… we moved to an area outside of our district when I was a freshman and my mom HAD to drop me off… i ended up in ISS over tardies. 

didn’t say it was racial I’m pointing out that parents want to blame everything else.

you mention racism isnt holding black kids back

I’m saying it’s usually the parents….that was just an example.  
parents fill their kids with the same mentality of “the system is against us”

I hear parents blaming the school for starting to early…..one excuse after another.

[Big girl]

14 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Ok…. I’ll agree with being prejudiced. Just because 49% of black males have been arrested by the age of 23 is immaterial. 
 

But you just proved my point that racism isn’t holding black kids back. You’ve got example after example of black kids who’ve excelled. 
 

Last question. Why are only SOME black kids held back by systemic racism?

 

Black men are 5x more likely to be arrested than whites when committing the same crime, so it makes it seem like we are committing more criminal acts.

 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up