Abortion?

[Realville]

Bullets13 say your wife was 5 months pregnant with y’all’s first child an you were excited about the fact you were about to become a father then one day she came home an told you she had an abortion because she thought the child would be too much of an inconvenience....would you be ok with that?

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, Realville said:

Bullets13 say your wife was 5 months pregnant with y’all’s first child an you were excited about the fact you were about to become a father then one day she came home an told you she had an abortion because she thought the child would be too much of an inconvenience....would you be ok with that?

  Your very specific example is the thing that is least likely to happen.  I literally know nobody who was about to have a baby with their wife and then found out that their wife secretly had an abortion.  That said, I'm quite sure that if my wife was five months pregnant with our first child, and she came home and told me she'd had an abortion that I would be upset.  That doesn't mean I think abortion should be illegal, although at 5 months I DO think it should be illegal.  My wife and I can't have children, so I assure you I have a very real idea of how precious the process is.  We adopted two little girls.  When they're adults (or God forbid when they're teenagers), I hope that if they somehow end up pregnant and do not want to take the child to term, ESPECIALLY if they are raped or if having the baby could cause them some sort of health issues, that they have the option to terminate that pregnancy. 

Since I answered your question, let me ask you this... if your wife gets raped and becomes pregnant, do you want her to have the choice as to whether or not she has the baby?  What about if having the baby could possibly kill her?  Do you want her to have the option of terminating the pregnancy then?

 

[Realville]

19 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

  Your very specific example is the thing that is least likely to happen.  I literally know nobody who was about to have a baby with their wife and then found out that their wife secretly had an abortion.  That said, I'm quite sure that if my wife was five months pregnant with our first child, and she came home and told me she'd had an abortion that I would be upset.  That doesn't mean I think abortion should be illegal, although at 5 months I DO think it should be illegal.  My wife and I can't have children, so I assure you I have a very real idea of how precious the process is.  We adopted two little girls.  When they're adults (or God forbid when they're teenagers), I hope that if they somehow end up pregnant and do not want to take the child to term, ESPECIALLY if they are raped or if having the baby could cause them some sort of health issues, that they have the option to terminate that pregnancy. 

Since I answered your question, let me ask you this... if your wife gets raped and becomes pregnant, do you want her to have the choice as to whether or not she has the baby?  What about if having the baby could possibly kill her?  Do you want her to have the option of terminating the pregnancy then?

 

You specifically said “to each his own” in your comment about abortions. That covers from embryo to 3rd trimester abortions. I doubt very serious that 600,000 to 700,000 women a year are having abortions based on the very rare instances that you stated above. I am talking about abortions that don’t pertain to those very rare situations. So you don’t believe in abortions at 5 months. That’s good to know so at what time in the pregnancy is it good to have an abortion?

[Bobcat1]

7 minutes ago, Realville said:

You specifically said “to each his own” in your comment about abortions. That covers from embryo to 3rd trimester abortions. I doubt very serious that 600,000 to 700,000 women a year are having abortions based on the very rare instances that you stated above. I am talking about abortions that don’t pertain to those very rare situations. So you don’t believe in abortions at 5 months. That’s good to know so at what time in the pregnancy is it good to have an abortion?

I may be wrong, but I thought I read only 1% of abortions are over 4 months.  

[bullets13]

2 minutes ago, Realville said:

You specifically said “to each his own” in your comment about abortions. That covers from embryo to 3rd trimester abortions. I doubt very serious that 600,000 to 700,000 women a year are having abortions based on the very rare instances that you stated above. I am talking about abortions that don’t pertain to those very rare situations. So you don’t believe in abortions at 5 months. That’s good to know so at what time in the pregnancy is it good to have an abortion?

I think the majority of abortions are young women who make mistakes and realize that they're not ready to be parents.  Personally, I don't like the idea of abortions.  It's not something that sets well with me.  But there are plenty of things that don't set well with me that aren't illegal.  

You ask when I'm okay with abortions:  my personal opinion is that once an embryo is viable, and developed enough to possibly survive outside of the mother, that mother should no longer have an option to terminate the pregnancy.  At 8 weeks an embryo is the size of a lima bean.  I see that a lot differently than when a fetus is 5 months old and has a (very small) chance of survival outside of the womb.  And how far do we take it?  Most Catholics think birth control is a sin.  

 

Now, you asked me a question, and I answered, and I asked you a question and you deflected it.  Your question was a very specific question of an unlikely scenario, but I answered.  My question was specific and an unlikely scenario, and you avoided it:  It's a yes or no answer:  If your wife was raped would you want her to be forced to carry the child to term without the option of terminating the pregnancy?

[bullets13]

1 minute ago, Bobcat1 said:

I may be wrong, but I thought I read only 1% of abortions are over 4 months.  

That is accurate.  They're almost exclusively done before a fetus is viable.  The vast majority of those occurring beyond four months occur due to the health risks of the mother.  For example we had a family friend who terminated a pregnancy at 5 months because she found out she had liver cancer and would need chemotherapy.  she had to choose between chemo and the baby.  She had three living children, so she chose the chemo to try and avoid leaving them without a mother.  

[LumRaiderFan]

1 hour ago, bullets13 said:

  Your very specific example is the thing that is least likely to happen.  I literally know nobody who was about to have a baby with their wife and then found out that their wife secretly had an abortion.  That said, I'm quite sure that if my wife was five months pregnant with our first child, and she came home and told me she'd had an abortion that I would be upset.  That doesn't mean I think abortion should be illegal, although at 5 months I DO think it should be illegal.  My wife and I can't have children, so I assure you I have a very real idea of how precious the process is.  We adopted two little girls.  When they're adults (or God forbid when they're teenagers), I hope that if they somehow end up pregnant and do not want to take the child to term, ESPECIALLY if they are raped or if having the baby could cause them some sort of health issues, that they have the option to terminate that pregnancy. 

Since I answered your question, let me ask you this... if your wife gets raped and becomes pregnant, do you want her to have the choice as to whether or not she has the baby?  What about if having the baby could possibly kill her?  Do you want her to have the option of terminating the pregnancy then?

 

I'll answer that one.  Yes on both counts...no other reasons can be used.

Both are very rare and the latter is almost never, although the pro-abortion crowd will tell you different.

Now, do you think these conditions would make the pro-abortion crowd happy?

Absolutely not, their main concern has never been about the health of the mother and certainly isn't about the baby they want to kill.

 

[SmashMouth]

Too often abortion is used as retroactive birth control. If a young girl gets pregnant, she can always put the life she has given into the arms of others who aren’t as fortunate or give the father the opportunity to raise the child. 

[bullets13]

20 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

Too often abortion is used as retroactive birth control. If a young girl gets pregnant, she can always put the life she has given into the arms of others who aren’t as fortunate. 

easy to say, but not as easy to make happen.  for every unwanted baby that finds a loving home through adoption there are countless more that end up in horrible homes, foster care, or worse.  Having gone through the adoption process, I can attest to the fact that there are lots of brand new babies available,  and for only $20-30K, one can be yours!  That said, add 500,000 unwanted babies a year into the mix, and it's gonna take about a month before you run out of homes for those babies.  Then what, open state run orphanages?  Federal orphanages?  It's been my experience that the folks who care the most about unwanted, unborn fetuses are also the least interested in supporting those fetuses with their tax dollars after they're born.  Most of them aren't lining up to take in other people's infants, either.  

[LumRaiderFan]

33 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

easy to say, but not as easy to make happen.  for every unwanted baby that finds a loving home through adoption there are countless more that end up in horrible homes, foster care, or worse.  Having gone through the adoption process, I can attest to the fact that there are lots of brand new babies available,  and for only $20-30K, one can be yours!  That said, add 500,000 unwanted babies a year into the mix, and it's gonna take about a month before you run out of homes for those babies.  Then what, open state run orphanages?  Federal orphanages?  It's been my experience that the folks who care the most about unwanted, unborn fetuses are also the least interested in supporting those fetuses with their tax dollars after they're born.  Most of them aren't lining up to take in other people's infants, either.  

There are a million excuses to end an unborn child's life...none are ok.

I remember a story I heard a while back about a mother that went into the doctor's office and found out she was pregnant.  While holding her one year old she complained that she could not afford another child and was thinking about "terminating" the pregnancy.  The doctor simply said to hand him the child and he could terminate it and problem solved...back to one child.

A very graphic illustration that ends in the same result...one child instead of two.

[bullets13]

12 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said:

There are a million excuses to end an unborn child's life...none are ok.

I remember a story I heard a while back about a mother that went into the doctor's office and found out she was pregnant.  While holding her one year old she complained that she could not afford another child and was thinking about "terminating" the pregnancy.  The doctor simply said to hand him the child and he could terminate it and problem solved...back to one child.

A very graphic illustration that ends in the same result...one child instead of two.

I respect your beliefs.  As I've stated before, abortions aren't something I'm a fan of, but I do see them as a necessity in some situations.  That said, excuses or not, what is your solution to taking care of all of these unwanted babies?  I just looked it up, and there are over 800,000 abortions a year in the USA.  So where do we put 2.4 million children under the age of 3?  Or 9.6 million unwanted children under the age of 12?  You can't tell a parent that they have to keep them after you won't let them abort them.  Who's going to pay for these children?  I know enough republicans (I'm one of them) who gripe about having to support kids who are with their biological mothers and on welfare because their parents can't afford them.  What about when taxes are necessary to pay for the entire raising of kids from birth to 18 in federal or state care, with an average of 12-15M kids in care at any given time?

[LumRaiderFan]

2 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I respect your beliefs.  As I've stated before, abortions aren't something I'm a fan of, but I do see them as a necessity in some situations.  That said, excuses or not, what is your solution to taking care of all of these unwanted babies?  I just looked it up, and there are over 800,000 abortions a year in the USA.  So where do we put 2.4 million children under the age of 2.  Or 9.6 million unwanted children under the age of 12?  You can't tell a parent that they have to keep them after you won't let them abort them.  Who's going to pay for these children?  I know enough republicans (I'm one of them) who gripe about having to support kids who are with their biological mothers and on welfare.  

I have no idea, don't have the answer.  I can say with some certainty that many of those mothers will raise the child themselves.  There are untold numbers of pregnant women that change their mind simply by hearing the heartbeat at a pregnancy crisis center.  That's never an option at the planned parenthood abortion mills.

I know this, killing millions of unborn children is not the answer as so many seem to think it is.

That's kinda like saying if we solve the problem of starvation in Africa, where are we going to house and feed all those people?

[baddog]

I would rather pay for a woman’s birth control than to pay for her abortion. Haven’t looked it up, but I’d be willing to bet the average age of the mothers getting abortions aren’t teenagers.....probably 25-30 years of age. It comes down to responsibility, which nobody is anymore. 

[bullets13]

4 minutes ago, baddog said:

I would rather pay for a woman’s birth control than to pay for her abortion. Haven’t looked it up, but I’d be willing to bet the average age of the mothers getting abortions aren’t teenagers.....probably 25-30 years of age. It comes down to responsibility, which nobody is anymore. 

Totally agree with all of this.  I'd also like to get younger kids access to birth control.  I feel a lot differently about a 15-year-old getting an abortion vs. a 25-year-old.  Part of the issue is that the same contingent of conservative folks that are against abortions are also against birth control for teens because they feel it encourages sexual activity.  That has changed some, but it's still definitely an issue.  

[CardinalBacker]

I'll agree with abortion under those limited reasons (rape, incest, life of the mother) if you'll agree that any other reasons should be illegal.  

 

Abortion Fans use those reasons to get a "foot in the door." They throw out the listed reasons while they actually believe that there should be no restrictions whatsoever.

 

I personally feel that abortion is immoral, at least for me, anyways... but I really didn't have an opinion on legality.  My opposition came when the D's made "abortion is a right regardless of a woman's ability to pay" a part of their platform.  If I have no business in women's reproductive issues, then you don't need my tax dollars to fund them, either.  

 

[SmashMouth]

7 hours ago, bullets13 said:

easy to say, but not as easy to make happen.  for every unwanted baby that finds a loving home through adoption there are countless more that end up in horrible homes, foster care, or worse.  Having gone through the adoption process, I can attest to the fact that there are lots of brand new babies available,  and for only $20-30K, one can be yours!  That said, add 500,000 unwanted babies a year into the mix, and it's gonna take about a month before you run out of homes for those babies.  Then what, open state run orphanages?  Federal orphanages?  It's been my experience that the folks who care the most about unwanted, unborn fetuses are also the least interested in supporting those fetuses with their tax dollars after they're born.  Most of them aren't lining up to take in other people's infants, either.  

I’m sorry. You’re right. Just kill them...

[LumRaiderFan]

If anyone wants to make a difference, donate to a crisis pregnancy center.  They’re the folks that give young women a “choice” to keep their child instead of the democrat federally funded abortion mills, AKA planned (no) parenthood.

[SmashMouth]

9 hours ago, LumRaiderFan said:

If anyone wants to make a difference, donate to a crisis pregnancy center.  They’re the folks that give young women a “choice” to keep their child instead of the democrat federally funded abortion mills, AKA planned (no) parenthood.

Exactly. My grandmother was a counselor for Birthright for decades. She counseled young women and men on alternatives to abortion. She saved thousands of lives in doing so. Funny, she never considered throwing away not one of those “unwanted” souls. 

[bullets13]

10 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

I’m sorry. You’re right. Just kill them...

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.  It's been legal for a long time, well before our country moved from ultra conservative to ultra liberal.  Personally, I don't have an issue with a woman choosing to end her pregnancy when the embryo is still the size of a lima bean, and not even close to viable outside of the womb.  I have a major issue with partial birth abortions, and abortions where the embryo is developed enough to be viable.  If you have an issue with that, that's perfectly fine, and I respect your reasoning behind that.  All that being said, this thread is a perfect representation of how things go in the real world: conservatives are pro-life, and rabidly against abortion, but can offer no solutions as to what will be done with all of these unwanted children when they're born.  Most of them don't want to pay for the fallout, and almost none of them are going to take a couple of these kids into their home.  

[SmashMouth]

24 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.  It's been legal for a long time, well before our country moved from ultra conservative to ultra liberal.  Personally, I don't have an issue with a woman choosing to end her pregnancy when the embryo is still the size of a lima bean, and not even close to viable outside of the womb.  I have a major issue with partial birth abortions, and abortions where the embryo is developed enough to be viable.  If you have an issue with that, that's perfectly fine, and I respect your reasoning behind that.  All that being said, this thread is a perfect representation of how things go in the real world: conservatives are pro-life, and rabidly against abortion, but can offer no solutions as to what will be done with all of these unwanted children when they're born.  Most of them don't want to pay for the fallout, and almost none of them are going to take a couple of these kids into their home.  

Where do you get your statistics of “all of these unwanted children...”? What about kids in orphanages or foster care? Should we terminate them as well?

[baddog]

“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” Sounds like a good plan. People being responsible is all it takes. If someone is always there to “bail you out” of your jam, then you are more careless. 

I think places like Planned Parenthood encourage unwanted pregnancies so they can do their dirty work, you know like harvesting stem cells. 

[SmashMouth]

3 hours ago, bullets13 said:

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.  It's been legal for a long time, well before our country moved from ultra conservative to ultra liberal.  Personally, I don't have an issue with a woman choosing to end her pregnancy when the embryo is still the size of a lima bean, and not even close to viable outside of the womb.  I have a major issue with partial birth abortions, and abortions where the embryo is developed enough to be viable.  If you have an issue with that, that's perfectly fine, and I respect your reasoning behind that.  All that being said, this thread is a perfect representation of how things go in the real world: conservatives are pro-life, and rabidly against abortion, but can offer no solutions as to what will be done with all of these unwanted children when they're born.  Most of them don't want to pay for the fallout, and almost none of them are going to take a couple of these kids into their home.  

Btw, I have 1 adopted brother and 2 adopted sisters (raised by a single mother - she adopted my brother when she was 50). My dad was adopted as well. None of them had issues finding loving homes. I think your stats are off. At least in the US anyway. 

[CardinalBacker]

4 hours ago, bullets13 said:

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.  It's been legal for a long time, well before our country moved from ultra conservative to ultra liberal.  Personally, I don't have an issue with a woman choosing to end her pregnancy when the embryo is still the size of a lima bean, and not even close to viable outside of the womb.  I have a major issue with partial birth abortions, and abortions where the embryo is developed enough to be viable.  If you have an issue with that, that's perfectly fine, and I respect your reasoning behind that.  All that being said, this thread is a perfect representation of how things go in the real world: conservatives are pro-life, and rabidly against abortion, but can offer no solutions as to what will be done with all of these unwanted children when they're born.  Most of them don't want to pay for the fallout, and almost none of them are going to take a couple of these kids into their home.  

Or we could expect their parents to hold themselves accountable.  But that's not exactly what liberals (who all support abortion on demand, regardless of ability to pay) expect from themselves.  

[bullets13]

4 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

Where do you get your statistics of “all of these unwanted children...”? What about kids in orphanages or foster care? Should we terminate them as well?

my statistics come from the over 800,000 abortions a year in the US.  Do these kids suddenly become wanted when brought to term?  As for kids in orphanages and foster care, is there a difference to you between a 3 year old child and an 8-week-old embryo that's the size of a bean?  There is to me.  But you do bring up a good point about orphanages and foster care... there already aren't enough qualified and adequate homes for children in need of foster care.  Where are all of these new kids going to go?

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, SmashMouth said:

Btw, I have 1 adopted brother and 2 adopted sisters (raised by a single mother - she adopted my brother when she was 50). My dad was adopted as well. None of them had issues finding loving homes. I think your stats are off. At least in the US anyway. 

I have two adopted daughters, btw.  Glad your family found loving homes.  Mine did as well.  There are plenty out there who do not.  Trust me, I've been deeply involved in the foster care system for the last 3 years.